NASCAR kit question

[Oldmopars]

So, please excuse my ignorance when it comes to NASCAR kits, I like NASCAR, but never followed it or know that much about it. I build a lot of trucks and other big 1/25-1/24 stuff.

I was recently at an Antique store and found several kits for rather cheap, all NASCAR. So I bought 3 of them thinking I could trade them for something else. Well, I guess these kit are not too desirable as I had no takers. Anyway, I decided to build one of the #40 Dirt Devil Pontiacs. 

Are all of the Monogram NASCAR kits the same chassis? I looks like they make one chassis and just put different bodies in the different kits. 

How do I know what color to paint the interior? What about the chassis/bottom of the car? 

As for the interior, dash, chassis, should these be glossy, semi gloss, flat? 

Any other info would be great. There are several more kits there and they are cheap. These are kind of fun kits and I may build a few more. I travel a lot and I can work on these in the hotel room to keep my hands and mind busy. 

I may build a truck with a car hauler filled with "retired" 80-90's NASCAR cars. This would be a cheap way to fill the car hauler. 

[iBorg]

Monogram used several variations of the same chassis with changes appropriate to the era for different bodies. I'm pretty sure the Pontiac chassis you have is different than the Lumina. I think the Lumina is better. Most of the chassis seem to not fit as well as they could with their fit around the body.

The interior color varies. Early cars were several colors although most were a gray gloss. I'm pretty sure Nascar now mandates the gray gloss for the interior now. Typically the interior and chassis are the same with a white driveshaft, which is required by Nascar.

I think the dash would be either semi gloss or flat...typically black but you need to research the specific car.

The early Nascar kits are pretty good. The last issue Chevy and Fords by Revell are amazing.

[randyc]

As Iborg said paint everything except dash, seat, steering wheel, suspension, and engine gloss gull gray of some sort.  Even the inside of the body.    That's kinda simplified but the real cars were built like that.   Reference the builds in the under glass section.  probably 95% of the cars since the 80s had the gray chassis and cage.  From a quick search, this looks like the first generation Laughlin style chassis.   

The second generation GM kits had roll bar padding molded in and some other decals.  Started with the Days of Thunder Lumina maybe?  That's what I remember which may be incorrect.  

These can be a lot of fun, especially the body details.  When I quit NASCAR models, I had over 200 built.   I was very familiar with these.   The body is a bit loose on chassis, if I remember correctly.  It might be a bit larger than 1/24?  Just a little.   The chassis was orignially used under the 80s Monte Carlo, Regal, Grand Prix bodies whcih were a bit larger than the cars that replaced them. Monogram used the existing chassis and made bodies to fit and then modified those bodies.   My google search shows the dirt devil kit to be a later Pontiac body.  

These can be built straight from box with nice results or you can go as wild as you like with details.   Either way, enjoy the build.

[64Comet404]

The #40 Pontiac shares its' chassis and running gear with the original Monogram '82 Buick Regal, and subsequent reissues as Monte Carlos, Pontiac Grand Prix, Olds 88s, and '88-up Buicks. These chassis are also the basis of the 1:24 kits that are manufactured by JR Salvino's (Pontiac 2+2, LeMans). They represent the running gear, though there are some details that are specific to the prototype (the 180 degree headers, for example).  

[Force]

I think I have read somewhere that the 80's GM chassis had front steer and the Ford chassis had rear steer.

[SCRWDRVR]

Starting in the 90's all chassis' are grey as stated, before that it was kind of up to them, examples- Dale Earnhardts Wrangler car had a blue interior and Mark Martins Folgers car had a white interior. It will probably tell you right in the directions the color they used but definitely search for info and pics on line. The chassis' are close but you will find little differences between the manufacturers mostly in the engine but I have noticed the floor on the Monte Carlo and the Grand Prix are a little different where the seat sits. As for trading I learned also unless you have odd kits there is not much want for them, I did learn however (I noticed you have 2 of the same kits) you can get decals from somewhere like Mikes and make them 2 different drivers cars or even a car they never made a kit for. I just recently did Rusty's 1989 Kodiak car that way.

[Stryker3285]

As has been stated earlier, most chassis and roll cages are gray.  I haven't built a stock car in a while, but I always went with MM Light Ghost Gray for cars that had a gray interior.  

[wrenchr]

Another thing I think fueled the gray chassis was all the teams  that came along, gray was a more neutral color and I did see this on a nascar show back in the 90's when the teams would do their post race tear down and when checking the parts stress cracks in the metal were easier to spot with the light gray paint. After steam/pressure cleaning stress cracks would show rust.      

[Ctmodeler]

On 10/25/2020 at 4:13 PM, Force said:

I think I have read somewhere that the 80's GM chassis had front steer and the Ford chassis had rear steer.

Lol I mean I'm not positive but I don't think any nascar's have ever been rear steer , but man that would be something to see ! 

[Ironman63]

4 hours ago, Ctmodeler said:

Lol I mean I'm not positive but I don't think any nascar's have ever been rear steer , but man that would be something to see ! 

Both kind still use the front wheels to turn the car.  Front steer and rear steer in this instance refers to where the tie rod joins the A-frame.  A front steer car would join toward the front of the car on the A-frame and a rear steer car joins at the back of the A-frame. 

[RancheroSteve]

A quick Google search turned up this:

"Front and rear steer is where the steering box is located on the frame. Up until the early to mid 80s all Cup cars were rear steer meaning the box was located on the frame behind the front tires. That style was known as Ford steering, Holman Moody and Banjo Matthews dominated the market of building rear steer Cup chassis for Cup. Then came Bobby Allison and Mike Laughlin with the Chevy style box in front of the tires, being the geometry was much easier to work out and the drivers preferring the feel of that style of steering it is now dominate."

[Force]

7 hours ago, Ctmodeler said:

Lol I mean I'm not positive but I don't think any nascar's have ever been rear steer , but man that would be something to see ! 

Maybe I should have explained the terms myself when I did the post but no need now as Mark and Steve are correct.
So it's not steering on the rear axle if that's what you thought. 
But some has most likely had the thought to have some kind of self steering at the rear to make the cars turn left easier, but I believe it's prohibited by the rules.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Force

[bbowser]

Not really related but I'd like to know how they build camber into the rear wheels without U-joints?

[Cowpunk]

4 hours ago, bbowser said:

how they build camber into the rear wheels without U-joints

Hi: The camber is built into the rear axle housing by intentionally welding the axle tubes to the center section NOT in a straight line. So this camber is non-adjustable unless they swap out the entire rear axle housing for another one that had its tubes welded on at a different angle.

[RancheroSteve]

Also keep in mind thy are running full floating hubs, which gives you more leeway with camber. I found this:

"A year ago [2012] the four cars at Hendrick Motorsports had a significant advantage at midseason by creating a way to manipulate the rear axle housing. One side of the axle was able move forward and backward. That allowed the rear tires to work outside the track of the front tires to give the car more traction in the turns.The evolution of that change took months and hundreds of thousands of dollars to create. It cost the rest of the garage area millions to catch up. Now that all that work and money has been invested, NASCAR said rear housings must be locked in one position. Harry Gant won four consecutive races in 1991 when his team created a way to have the bottom of the right side tires stick out more than the top of the tires. By creating negative camber, the tires gained grip in the corners. Other teams eventually figured it out and did the same thing until they took it too far. NASCAR eventually mandated the amount of camber after several teams broke axles."

None of this makes much difference in scale I suppose, but interesting if you care about the technical stuff.

[randyc]

On 10/31/2020 at 12:29 PM, RancheroSteve said:

Also keep in mind thy are running full floating hubs, which gives you more leeway with camber. I found this:

"A year ago [2012] the four cars at Hendrick Motorsports had a significant advantage at midseason by creating a way to manipulate the rear axle housing. One side of the axle was able move forward and backward. That allowed the rear tires to work outside the track of the front tires to give the car more traction in the turns.The evolution of that change took months and hundreds of thousands of dollars to create. It cost the rest of the garage area millions to catch up. Now that all that work and money has been invested, NASCAR said rear housings must be locked in one position. Harry Gant won four consecutive races in 1991 when his team created a way to have the bottom of the right side tires stick out more than the top of the tires. By creating negative camber, the tires gained grip in the corners. Other teams eventually figured it out and did the same thing until they took it too far. NASCAR eventually mandated the amount of camber after several teams broke axles."

None of this makes much difference in scale I suppose, but interesting if you care about the technical stuff.

I was a big NASCAR fan when this was the "thing".  It was an interesting time in racing as everyone was trying to come up with every little thing.  

[RancheroSteve]

3 hours ago, randyc said:

I was a big NASCAR fan when this was the "thing".  It was an interesting time in racing as everyone was trying to come up with every little thing.  

Same here. I remember watching some of those races when guys were breaking axles left and right, and the announcers had no clue as to why. Of course later it became clear. 

[randyc]

20 hours ago, RancheroSteve said:

Same here. I remember watching some of those races when guys were breaking axles left and right, and the announcers had no clue as to why. Of course later it became clear. 

I helped on a local car back then.   The track officials wanted to see our clutch.   Johnny told them we'd take it out and show itto them next week.  They agreed (how stupid is that?).   So Johnny came up with a single disc clutch that theoretically would work and showed it to the officials.   Who appreantly told our competitors.   Because the week after that, you could smell the clutches burning and going out.  You can't get by with one disc in a 7.5" clutch.   lol