2020 ACME Southern Nationals Results

[StevenGuthmiller]

I don't know if anybody has seen the winners from this show, but I just have to vent a little.

I understand that it's an NNL event and that the awards, if any, are chosen, for the most part, by the participants. (and in this case, anyone who cared to visit the site and vote)

But after seeing some of the results from this particular show, I'm not sure if I'll bother participating in another one like it again.

 

As I said, I understand that it is not a "judged event", but it's also pretty obvious in some cases that the guy who can get the ballot box stuffed most efficiently, wins.

Maybe I'm naive, but I just kind of expected that the "best" models in a particular category would receive some recognition.

That very obviously did not happen.

What happened was that the people who could scrounge up the most family members and friends to vote for their model gained the recognition.

I won't say that this happened in every case, but there is no doubt that it did in the "factory stock" category.

I can honestly, and literally say that almost every other entry in the category was a better model than the winner!

That's saying a lot, but that's what I'm seeing.

I apologize in advance if the winning person is a member here, but I'm sure that even he knows that he could never make a convincing case that his model was the best in the category.

 

Anyway, I just had to get that off of my chest.

It just seems as if these shows are a bit of a waste of time if the best of the best are not recognized, but the best "campaigners" are.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[robert langoni]

I agree with you 1000% i saw the same thing its the same situation at the show in person ,donot like the way they pick the winners always looks like its who you know gets picked. but it a great show with lots of cars and great vending and people .

[Can-Con]

I agree Steve.

In a real contest, that Charger couldn't hold a candle to any of your entries.  

Box stock with sub-par paint? Right.

BTW, I did vote for one of your cars, glad they weren't in the categories I was in.  ?

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, robert langoni said:

I agree with you 1000% i saw the same thing its the same situation at the show in person ,donot like the way they pick the winners always looks like its who you know gets picked. but it a great show with lots of cars and great vending and people .

I understand how the "good old boy network" phenomenon works, but usually there is at least the "appearance" that the winning model is a good one.

In this show, there were 1,257 participants, 4,534 entries and 2,896 votes.

Just guessing, I would say that there were several hundred "factory stock" entries!

There was a "TON" of fantastic builds entered, yet somehow we are supposed to believe that the "best" model was a blue 1967 Dodge Charger with a dull paint job, no represented body trim or badging and sewing thread engine wiring?

I mean, c'mon.

 

If these are the kinds of outcomes expected, I think it would be beneficial to all involved just to dispense with the participant voting and peoples choice awards altogether.

It's quite apparent that the quality of the model has nothing to do with the result.

Either the people voting have no concept of what they're looking at, or the fix is in.

I suspect a combination of both might be at play.

 

Of all of the hundreds of fine models entered in the factory stock category, we are supposed to believe that this is the finest of them all.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve 

Edited November 15, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[Can-Con]

Is it just me or is the door handle on that model on upside down and backwards?

[Khils]

6 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

Is it just me or is the door handle on that model on upside down and backwards?

On both accounts! YES!!    Upside down & backwards.

[StevenGuthmiller]

36 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

I agree Steve.

In a real contest, that Charger couldn't hold a candle to any of your entries.  

Box stock with sub-par paint? Right.

BTW, I did vote for one of your cars, glad they weren't in the categories I was in.  ?

My expectation was never really to win anything, and to be honest, I really didn't care much.

As I said, there were a ton of really fantastically done entries.

I would have been happy to see "any" of the really fine entrants recognized for their work, and I'm sorry, but this Charger should not have even ranked within the top 100!

 

Even someone with no modeling knowledge whatsoever should be able to see that there is no comparison between the above Charger, and something like these, which are just a couple of a myriad of exceptional builds displayed.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[StevenGuthmiller]

28 minutes ago, Can-Con said:

Is it just me or is the door handle on that model on upside down and backwards?

 

19 minutes ago, Khils said:

On both accounts! YES!!    Upside down & backwards.

Could it be that special deference was given to "junior modelers"?

There was no juniors category and I don't think that there was any way of discerning who the models were built by prior to voting, so I think not.

I really think this is a prime example of some sort of "telephone campaign", calling everyone you know to have them log on and vote in favor of your model.

I really have a hard time coming up with any other plausible scenario.

 

I really think that this is the sort of thing that will eventually kill model car shows and contests.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve   

Edited November 15, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[Bills72sj]

Steve, If I could build models with the quality that you do, I could sympathize with your frustration. Since I do not, I have different attitude towards shows. I have been to maybe 10 in my whole life, so they are still a treat. I bring some of my builds without any expectation of winning. I am more interested in seeing other peoples builds and ideas and maybe getting the occasional chance to share the details of one of mine with someone. To me that is enough satisfaction to keep on attending. (That and getting some good deals on more kits). While your builds may not have won any trophies at the show, I sure do appreciate you sharing them here. You are an inspiration to me.

[Khils]

8 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

 "telephone campaign",

This day & age.....calling everyone you know...takes Way too long.... Hey Seri. ...text everyone in my contacts

[CabDriver]

I entered a few builds in the hot rod category and tried multiple times to even make the page load properly so I could even SEE my entries, let alone vote for them.  The page was trying to load maybe 500 images and would always time out for me (on multiple laptops, desktops, iPads and phones that I tried it on).

As such, I have no idea if anyone even SAW my builds, or was able to vote for them.

I’m happy @TimKustom’s excellent 29 won in the hot rods though!  Congrats Tim!

Holding out hope I maybe won one of the raffle prizes instead ??

[Danno]

Unbelievable.

?

[StevenGuthmiller]

16 minutes ago, Bills72sj said:

Steve, If I could build models with the quality that you do, I could sympathize with your frustration. Since I do not, I have different attitude towards shows. I have been to maybe 10 in my whole life, so they are still a treat. I bring some of my builds without any expectation of winning. I am more interested in seeing other peoples builds and ideas and maybe getting the occasional chance to share the details of one of mine with someone. To me that is enough satisfaction to keep on attending. (That and getting some good deals on more kits). While your builds may not have won any trophies at the show, I sure do appreciate you sharing them here. You are an inspiration to me.

I have the same attitude as well.

When I attend a show, I have no expectation of winning anything, and I don't plan on it.

I just let the chips fall where they may under normal circumstances.

But when something like this takes place, which can really only be explained by some form of gerrymandering, it has a tendency to burn my backside.

If there are going to be any kind of awards offered at all, one would expect that there should be some semblance of protection to ensure that the art displayed is considered fairly, and at least my expectation would be that the best examples should be recognized.

I understand that we live in an "everybody gets a trophy" society these days, but what is our incentive to do the best that we can do, at least in the perspective of contests and shows, if all that's really needed is an established network of people to cast votes for you.

In my opinion, this sort of development is a black eye for model shows and will only serve to dissuade attendance in this type of show.

 

I have no particular appetite for a wall full of plaques, and to be totally honest, I didn't even vote in this contest,  but we should all be able to expect that the voting system should be secure enough to ensure that the best examples get the attention that they deserve.

I have the feeling that the biggest mistake made in this contest was allowing any Tom, Dick or Harry to vote, whether they were interested in the hobby or not.

It should have been limited to the participants who know something about what they're looking at.

 

I suppose I should digress and say that this might not have been a case of stuffing the ballot box.

It could just as easily have been a bunch of jokers who just wanted to screw with the results because they thought it might be funny, but then I would have expected the same type of results in other categories, which didn't seem to be the case, or at least not to the same extent.

Either way, I wouldn't think that it would help the credibility of the show in the future.

At least I can tell you that it has damaged my view of it.

I will ignore it next time around.

 

 

 

 

Steve

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

33 minutes ago, CabDriver said:

Holding out hope I maybe won one of the raffle prizes instead ??

If you haven't heard from them by now, you likely didn't win anything.

I won a couple of F1 models and was notified by email almost a week ago.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[niteowl7710]

I get that it's annoying that some people can conjure up their social media brood to tilt a vote in their favor, when their something is in fact subpar to the entries that "should" have won.  But at the same time I think everyone is going a wee bit overboard calling in the death of shows and wrecking the reputation of the Acme Southern Nationals.  Guys it was a photography contest inside a popularity contest, given that the world, or at least the U.S., is on virus fire and holding an in person show wasn't possible...at least they tried?  I mean the ACME club could have just hung out and done nothing this fall, and regrouped next November.  But they chose to give everyone something to do and a show to "enter", but again I'm not sure how anyone could expect "legitimate" results to come out of it.

People's Choice based "awards" are always janky at best, even in person, but this was clearly going to be a free-for-all from the start.

[CabDriver]

6 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

If you haven't heard from them by now, you likely didn't win anything.

I won a couple of F1 models and was notified by email almost a week ago.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Ohh, congrats!! 

[Len Woodruff]

4 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

I get that it's annoying that some people can conjure up their social media brood to tilt a vote in their favor, when their something is in fact subpar to the entries that "should" have won.  But at the same time I think everyone is going a wee bit overboard calling in the death of shows and wrecking the reputation of the Acme Southern Nationals.  Guys it was a photography contest inside a popularity contest, given that the world, or at least the U.S., is on virus fire and holding an in person show wasn't possible...at least they tried?  I mean the ACME club could have just hung out and done nothing this fall, and regrouped next November.  But they chose to give everyone something to do and a show to "enter", but again I'm not sure how anyone could expect "legitimate" results to come out of it.

People's Choice based "awards" are always janky at best, even in person, but this was clearly going to be a free-for-all from the start.

Good perspective. Thanks for posting.

[Classicgas]

Wow. That is unbelievable.

[Plowboy]

5 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

I get that it's annoying that some people can conjure up their social media brood to tilt a vote in their favor, when their something is in fact subpar to the entries that "should" have won.  But at the same time I think everyone is going a wee bit overboard calling in the death of shows and wrecking the reputation of the Acme Southern Nationals.  Guys it was a photography contest inside a popularity contest, given that the world, or at least the U.S., is on virus fire and holding an in person show wasn't possible...at least they tried?  I mean the ACME club could have just hung out and done nothing this fall, and regrouped next November.  But they chose to give everyone something to do and a show to "enter", but again I'm not sure how anyone could expect "legitimate" results to come out of it.

People's Choice based "awards" are always janky at best, even in person, but this was clearly going to be a free-for-all from the start.

One could expect marginal results in a contest like this. But, anyone has to admit that this was a pretty gross error.

I gave up on model shows in my area years ago. It wasn't so much the judging that turned me away as it was the trophy hounds, critics and those that wanted everyone to know they were there. The extent that people would go to to win a $20 trophy was unbelievable! People trying to get models moved to another category because they knew they didn't have a chance of winning. Adults entering the junior category. One was leading one of the judges around showing and explaining every model he had. Then there were the critics bagging on others models. Of course, when I asked one where his was, his reply was, " I don't build for shows, I build for myself. " My reply was, "that's what I figured." and I walked away. Then there's the people that don't bathe or smell like they've dumped in their pants. I'm not making a blanket statement. There were a handful of clean, decent acting people there also. But, the rest made it a bad experience. The worst part was it was the first time my son went to a model show. On the way home, he said, "Dad, I never want to go to model car show again!" I just replied, " me neither! "  

[bobthehobbyguy]

 

First off I think that ACME needs to thanked for putting an event in these difficult times.

The populairity of NNL's was.becuase of inadequate judging. Theoretically peoples choice  should be the most fair but it can also have its shortcomings. I think its more important to participate than win a award. Otherwise don't complain down the road when there are no events.

[Tom Geiger]

2 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

 

First off I think that ACME needs to thanked for putting an event in these difficult times.

The populairity of NNL's was.becuase of inadequate judging. Theoretically peoples choice  should be the most fair but it can also have its shortcomings. I think its more important to participate than win a award. Otherwise don't complain down the road when there are no events.

Agreed! Acme stepped up to provide everyone with something this year!   There are always issues with the maiden voyage of anything.  I know the crew and these are good people who want to do the right thing.

Note that the hosting and voting was on Kalmbach’s site. They may have been in charge of watching the vote and posting the winners.  I do know that when I’ve run polls (at NNL East we let our readers pick next years web theme one year) I could see the IP and location of all the votes. The software disallowed multiple votes. 

In the plus column there was a ton of participation!  

Edited November 15, 2020 by Tom Geiger

[Erik Smith]

12 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

In this show, there were 1,257 participants, 4,534 entries and 2,896 votes.

Interesting. So, could anybody vote? Or was voting for entrants only? Maybe limited to paying participants?
Looking at the “winning” model, it looks like a beginner built it. If voting was open to anybody, maybe a social media campaign to “vote for [insert child’s name] to win a model contest!” occurred? I have seen this for other types of “contests” where the actual product has nothing to do with votes but is based entirely on the level of social connectivity. 
I quit going to the local club near me because there was always some odd level of corruption and make believe drama and, as it appeared to me, relatively low standards (of behavior and building) by a majority of members. I would enjoy model contests, or displays, just to be able to see, in person, other models, but I’ve only attended one in my life (oh, and one virtual). 
I think most of us, looking at the examples Steve posted, know that the “winning” model was not the “best” model. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

 

First off I think that ACME needs to thanked for putting an event in these difficult times.

The populairity of NNL's was.becuase of inadequate judging. Theoretically peoples choice  should be the most fair but it can also have its shortcomings. I think its more important to participate than win a award. Otherwise don't complain down the road when there are no events.

If this is the quality of events that we can expect, who needs them.

As I said, if they're going to take the time and responsibility of offering any kind of prizes at all, wouldn't it benefit all involved if the selection of the recipients of those prizes at least had some integrity?

If you just want people to display their work, fine.

But if you're going to offer prizes, you should probably get your act together first.

 

 

This is not the only online event to take place this year.

I participated in the "Desert Classic" show, and while it was a smaller show, it was run with the utmost integrity.

 

Likewise, I just returned from an NNL event in Bloomington Minnesota last week.

I didn't win a peoples choice award their either, but the folks that deserved them did.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited November 15, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 minutes ago, Erik Smith said:

Interesting. So, could anybody vote? Or was voting for entrants only? Maybe limited to paying participants?

I really think that this was the ultimate mistake made.

There were no fees collected for entries, which is why there were so many.

But the fact that they allowed absolutely "anybody" to vote, whether you were involved with the show or not, set off red flags with me from the beginning.

I honestly don't understand how they didn't think that had a large probability of becoming an issue.

 

 

Steve

[vamach1]

13 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I understand how the "good old boy network" phenomenon works, but usually there is at least the "appearance" that the winning model is a good one.

In this show, there were 1,257 participants, 4,534 entries and 2,896 votes.

Just guessing, I would say that there were several hundred "factory stock" entries!

There was a "TON" of fantastic builds entered, yet somehow we are supposed to believe that the "best" model was a blue 1967 Dodge Charger with a dull paint job, no represented body trim or badging and sewing thread engine wiring?

I mean, c'mon.

 

If these are the kinds of outcomes expected, I think it would be beneficial to all involved just to dispense with the participant voting and peoples choice awards altogether.

It's quite apparent that the quality of the model has nothing to do with the result.

Either the people voting have no concept of what they're looking at, or the fix is in.

I suspect a combination of both might be at play.

 

Of all of the hundreds of fine models entered in the factory stock category, we are supposed to believe that this is the finest of them all.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve 

Maybe I should have entered something.  ?  Anyway, although I didn’t thanks to the folks that did take the time to “oversee” the event and the sponsors, etc.  I hope I can make the show in person next year along with at least three other NNL shows.