Is Testors airbrush thinner JUNK?

[89AKurt]

I usually use automotive thinner, just thought I would try Testors airbrush thinner today and regretted it.  Why does it make such a difference?  It caused the high points to show up.

[peteski]

Could it have made the paint too thin (more like a wash than regular paint)?  Testors thinner is likely mineral (white) spirits (aka. standard paint thinner).  It evaporates much slower than lacquer thinner you are used to.  Maybe the slower evaporation rate causes the paint to pull off the raised details?

[Dave G.]

Testors sells enamel reducer/thinner, comes in a red can and says enamel right on the can. I haven't used it since the early 1970's but they still sell it.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Dave G.

[kurth]

The Testors Airbrush thinner is fairly hot, I double checked the MSDS to verify what I seemed to remember,  it contains Xylene, and Ethylbenzene.  I hate it when paint pulls away from the edges that way.

 

any way here is the MSDS if you want to have a look

 

https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/1156XT.pdf

[Kit Basher]

6 hours ago, peteski said:

Could it have made the paint too thin (more like a wash than regular paint)? 

I think maybe Peter is right. I use that thinner (in the red can) all the time, and have never had that problem, even on bare plastic. I went back to using it after lacquer thinner had a bad reaction with one color of Testors paint. Yes, it's expensive, but it works reliably on all their paints. One thing tho, don't use it for paint you are going to store for a while. It will turn the paint to Jell-o pretty quickly. At least that's been my experience.

[89AKurt]

9 hours ago, peteski said:

Could it have made the paint too thin (more like a wash than regular paint)?  Testors thinner is likely mineral (white) spirits (aka. standard paint thinner).  It evaporates much slower than lacquer thinner you are used to.  Maybe the slower evaporation rate causes the paint to pull off the raised details?

Yes, that's what happened.

5 hours ago, Dave G. said:

Testors sells enamel reducer/thinner, comes in a red can and says enamel right on the can. I haven't used it since the early 1970's but they still sell it.

Thank you.

4 hours ago, kurth said:

The Testors Airbrush thinner is fairly hot, I double checked the MSDS to verify what I seemed to remember,  it contains Xylene, and Ethylbenzene.  I hate it when paint pulls away from the edges that way.

any way here is the MSDS if you want to have a look

https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/1156XT.pdf

Thanks for the input Kurt.  BTW: That link didn't work for me.

2 hours ago, Kit Basher said:

I think maybe Peter is right. I use that thinner (in the red can) all the time, and have never had that problem, even on bare plastic. I went back to using it after lacquer thinner had a bad reaction with one color of Testors paint. Yes, it's expensive, but it works reliably on all their paints. One thing tho, don't use it for paint you are going to store for a while. It will turn the paint to Jell-o pretty quickly. At least that's been my experience.

I've found that jelly problem too, so double confirm it's junk.  I've been using Dupont 3602S acrylic lacquer, going to stick with it.

[89AKurt]

*edit* never mind, wrong topic. ?

Used the Dupont this time with the black tonight.  Will use the Testors for cleaning, screw it.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by 89AKurt
whoops

[peteski]

Very good!

But where did the Splash Paints, or a problem with them were mentioned in this thread?  Was that just out in the left field comment?

[89AKurt]

49 minutes ago, peteski said:

Very good!

But where did the Splash Paints, or a problem with them were mentioned in this thread?  Was that just out in the left field comment?

Sorry, on my Auto Union C WIP.

[peteski]

1 hour ago, 89AKurt said:

Sorry, on my Auto Union C WIP.

Ah, ok.  I see the orange peel. For me, thinning the paint takes care of the orange peel problem. I like to spray my paint on wet.  But I have never used Splash paints, so I can't offer any advice.

[89AKurt]

8 hours ago, peteski said:

Ah, ok.  I see the orange peel. For me, thinning the paint takes care of the orange peel problem. I like to spray my paint on wet.  But I have never used Splash paints, so I can't offer any advice.

Why do I put myself through steep learning curves? ?

[89AKurt]

A little update, it sucks for cleaning too, especially Alclad aluminum, it created goober chunks.  It also does not light off like other thinner when I dump into the burn can.  It's just no fun!

[vintagerpm]

12 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

A little update, it sucks for cleaning too, especially Alclad aluminum, it created goober chunks.  It also does not light off like other thinner when I dump into the burn can.  It's just no fun!

This sounds like you are using the wrong thinner. This is what happens when you use water-based acrylic thinner with lacquer paints. There are 3 different Testors thinners - lacquer, enamel, & acrylic (water-based) - just like the 3 types of paint they made.

[peteski]

22 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

A little update, it sucks for cleaning too, especially Alclad aluminum, it created goober chunks.  It also does not light off like other thinner when I dump into the burn can.  It's just no fun!

Again - wrong thinner.  Alle paints are not made equal. The Testors airbrush thinner (for enamels?) is basically mineral spirits (enamel thinner) and Alclad is hot lacquer. It needs the hotter lacquer thinner (or acetone, which also often is in lacquer thinner).  It helps in our hobbies to understand paint chemistry.

I have to admit that the manufacturers don't really provide much info about the paints they sell, so educating yourself is a bit difficult.  Often smell is a good tool to figure out what to use with that.  Just a little whiff (don't inhale it to get high)!

[89AKurt]

7 hours ago, peteski said:

Again - wrong thinner.  Alle paints are not made equal. The Testors airbrush thinner (for enamels?) is basically mineral spirits (enamel thinner) and Alclad is hot lacquer. It needs the hotter lacquer thinner (or acetone, which also often is in lacquer thinner).  It helps in our hobbies to understand paint chemistry.

I have to admit that the manufacturers don't really provide much info about the paints they sell, so educating yourself is a bit difficult.  Often smell is a good tool to figure out what to use with that.  Just a little whiff (don't inhale it to get high)!

In my first comment picture, the bottle has ⚠️(similar), not for acrylic.  I'm back to using the automotive thinner, works great.

[peteski]

21 minutes ago, 89AKurt said:

In my first comment picture, the bottle has ⚠️(similar), not for acrylic.  I'm back to using the automotive thinner, works great.

That is correct. Acrylic thinner (for the water-based paints) has a blue label.  The stuff you have (as others already mentioned) appears to be the same stuff they have been selling for decades (in various color tins and bottles).  I still have a really old one with blue label (yes, blue), and one with black label. The red label is newest.  That thinner is for their hobby enamel line of paints (and they even mentioned Floquil paints which are long gone).  All those are organic-solvent based enamels.

Testor's thinner is not compatible with the hotter automotive lacquers (like Zero, Splash MCG, or others), or other lacquer hobby paints like Alclad. Actually I'm not even sure what type of coating Alclad metallic line is, but it sure isn't enamel.  These lacquers or other hot paints require use of lacquer thinner for thinning and cleaning. Safest is to use their own brand of thinner, or at least generic lacquer thinner.  When you start experimenting with mixing pain chemistries, you can easily get in trouble.

You are a seasoned modeler - after years of successfully thinning paints for airbrushing what made you try the Testors stuff for cleaning Splash paint?  You already had a bad experience with it, even when using (likely a bit too much of) it with Testors black enamel.

[89AKurt]

7 hours ago, peteski said:

[...]

You are a seasoned modeler - after years of successfully thinning paints for airbrushing what made you try the Testors stuff for cleaning Splash paint?  You already had a bad experience with it, even when using (likely a bit too much of) it with Testors black enamel.

Only used it for the gloss black paint, never with Splash or others.  Been using the Hobby Lobby 40% coupon to stock up, that was something I didn't have.  I hated chemistry class in High School.

[Pete J.]

Peteski is spot on!  All paints are not the same.  Each needs it's own specific thinner to coincide with its chemical composition. All paints are made up of basically three things: pigments, solvents and binders.   It is the binders that vary and make a difference.  Binders are basically a clear glue that holds the whole concoction together when cured.  Solvents dissolve the binders to make them liquid.  Pigments are the color portion.  The most common solvents are alcohol, mineral spirits and lacquer thinner.  The last two have a percentage of acetone in them but the other chemicals are significantly different.  Mineral spirits is mostly turpentine.  Lacquer thinner is acetone with a variety of other chemicals like MEK mixed in. Alcohol is the major component of "acrylic" paint thinner mixed with water.  

Needless to say they do not all react the same way with all binders.  In some cases,  they create a gooey mess when mixed.  In other cases, they will either delay the curing or prevent it all together.   Using the right thinner is critical to a good paint job.

Finally, all thinners are not created equal.  Lacquer thinners in particular vary widely in their composition. Automotive lacquer thinner is much "hotter" than the stuff you buy at Home Depot.  The difference is the active chemicals which can be quite expensive and determine the ultimate price of the thinner. Home Depots thinner MSDS sheet says it can be 100% acetone!  If I want acetone I will buy that.  That stuff is only good for blowing through an airbrush to clean it out.  In short, the right thinner will give you good results.  The wrong one or poor quality substitute will only make a mess.  

Kurt, I am jealous that you said you are using DuPont 3602S.  Use it sparingly.  DuPont quit making it years ago and you can't buy any more.   It was always my favorite thinner.  I have been forced to drive to Phoenix to buy PPG automotive Lacquer thinner at $50 a gallon.  I guard my cans of lacquer thinner very carefully as top quality lacquer thinner is a black market item here in California. 

[peteski]

5 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

Only used it for the gloss black paint, never with Splash or others.  Been using the Hobby Lobby 40% coupon to stock up, that was something I didn't have.  I hated chemistry class in High School.

Sorry, I reread the entire thread and I obviously got confused,.  After your failed attempt to use it even with the paint it was designed for, you wanted to relegate it for cleaning-only tasks.

But as you found out, it also does not work well with hot lacquers.  As Pete J. and I explained, it is just the wrong stuff to use with those hot lacquer paints.  Testors stuff (petroleum-distillates) is a mild and slow drying solvent.  In right proportion it actually works well with standard Testors enamels.  The longer evaporation time actually allows the enamels to level out nicely. But if you make the paint too thin (as you did), the paint will pull away from edges or raised details.

I didn't care much for *ANY* subjects in school (chemistry included), but learning theoretical chemistry is nothing like educating yourself about paint chemistry.  You don't need to memorize chemical formulas here - just gain basic knowledge about the various chemicals that go into paints, and what is compatible with what.  I didn't sit down in front of my computer for 2 weeks to cram all there is to know about various paint chemicals.  My knowledge was just slowly acquired while doing my hobbies, and I'm far from being a  genus!

[89AKurt]

11 hours ago, Pete J. said:

[...]

Kurt, I am jealous that you said you are using DuPont 3602S.  Use it sparingly.  DuPont quit making it years ago and you can't buy any more.   It was always my favorite thinner.  I have been forced to drive to Phoenix to buy PPG automotive Lacquer thinner at $50 a gallon.  I guard my cans of lacquer thinner very carefully as top quality lacquer thinner is a black market item here in California. 

Thanks for your input!  Oh man, thanks for letting me know about the Dupont.  I've noticed every new part for my '68 pickup causes cancer and birth defects in CA.  ?

6 hours ago, peteski said:

Sorry, I reread the entire thread and I obviously got confused,.  [...]  My knowledge was just slowly acquired while doing my hobbies, and I'm far from being a  genus!

Hey no worries.  Appreciate your input too.

I haven't searched, there must be a paint topic on this forum.

[Danno]

2 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

 I've noticed every new part for my '68 pickup causes cancer and birth defects in CA.  ?

 

 

[Content self-edited.]

??