Zero paints - gritty finish question

[65slotcar]

Your welcome MP , glad i could help.  those pipettes  are great,  i don't  use primer or base coats  that needs to be mixed,  but if you did these pipettes have  a 1-2-3  ML  measurements  on the side of them.   also great for airbrush  clean-up.  after  running  lacquer  thinner through airbrush, i  take out  needle and with trigger pulled i use these  pipettes  to drop small droplets of lacquer thinner  into  the cup  (gravity feed)  the  drops  mix with the air  almost  like a carburetor  and pulls the left over paint out of the airbrush.    just give it a try and  you will see what i mean.  

[Dave G.]

9 hours ago, Mcpesq817 said:

 

After watching the videos, those pipettes were exactly what I thought I needed to get.  I've been pouring from the paint container into the airbrush cup which can get messy and wasteful as you can imagine.  

Pipettes are great and shooting solvent paints like Zero you can flush them with lacquer thinner and get several re- uses from one. I've been using the same set for a year now, one for colors and one for thinners. Acrylics you can flush with a little warm water and a drop of dish soap, then flush with plain water. I know most people just toss them but I don't until I can't see through them for the staining lol. Works for me, everyone is different.

You have a few bottles of Zero paints so you might just as well learn how to handle them. Others are getting good results, you can too. In dealing with hot lacquers I have put down an acrylic barrier coat between the primer and lacquer before, fwiw.

[Mcpesq817]

Pipettes are ordered, thanks for the tip!  Also asked my wife to pick up some plastic spoons while she was out shopping  

Dave, what kind of acrylic barrier coat are you using?  So if I put down Mr. Surfacer as the primer, what would I put on as an acrylic coat next?  I'm assuming you are saying primer, acrylic coat, and then Zero paint?

[Dave G.]

1 hour ago, Mcpesq817 said:

Pipettes are ordered, thanks for the tip!  Also asked my wife to pick up some plastic spoons while she was out shopping  

Dave, what kind of acrylic barrier coat are you using?  So if I put down Mr. Surfacer as the primer, what would I put on as an acrylic coat next?  I'm assuming you are saying primer, acrylic coat, and then Zero paint?

I've just used craft paint. I've also used craft paint as a base color with clear lacquer over it. Never blistered, wrinkled etc. You don't have to do it but if you're practicing on spoons anyway, might be worth a shot. Vallejo Model Air would probably work too. But ya an acrylic layer between the primer and zero is what I mean.

[Mcpesq817]

Good to know, thank you very much!

 

[Dave G.]

13 hours ago, Mcpesq817 said:

Good to know, thank you very much!

 

Also use Tamiya clear colors over metallic craft paint base. I thin Tamiya colors ( acrylic) with either lacquer thinner or denatured alcohol fwiw.

[CabDriver]

I don't understand why these companies, who are mixing up paint specifically for scale modellers, wouldn't mix it up with solvent that doesn't craze regular styrene. 

I get that there's ways around the problem, using particular primers, barrier coats, misting it on in dozens of coats - but why not make it in such a way that you don't have to do all this stuff?  Other paint manufacturers can make product that is, for the most part, safe on styrene, why not these companies like Zero if they are indeed the ones actually mixing it themselves?

[Jack L]

because the paint color codes are for automotive paint formulas no crossover to plastics

[CabDriver]

11 minutes ago, Jack L said:

because the paint color codes are for automotive paint formulas no crossover to plastics

Sure - but they're marketed and packaged specifically for model cars...seems irresponsible to distribute a product that can so easily ruin the product that it's meant to be used on.

Some people do get great results with them admittedly, taking the proper steps and being plenty cautious, but it would be cool if they'd actually mix the stuff so it wasn't quite so easy to ruin the parts you're spraying it on.

Edited January 25, 2021 by CabDriver

[Matt Bacon]

To be fair, I’ve been using Zero Paints for a decade, on dozens of builds, and I’ve never had an issue with plastic crazing. In my experience TS-13 Clear is “hotter” than Zero paint, and that’s formulated for models...

best,

M.

[Dave G.]

In this case it may be the OP's specific kit styrene that is susceptible to crazing .

That said I have an old kit here ( 1/16 scale Model A) and am using MCW lacquer, I've done the test on the plastic by putting some paint on the underside of the rumble seat direct to the plastic and no crazing at all. And while the paint odor is strong it also doesn't smell as strong as say the old Lucite 1/1 automotive lacquer. I know MCW uses auto lacquer thinner but the paint I doubt is . The formulas are true, he can mix any color by code or by chip. So ask before you say he doesn't stock it. He just came out with an enamel line too.

Edit:  I guess it is PPG products MCW uses, according to the website. Anyway, so far so good for me.

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Dave G.

[Mcpesq817]

Sorry to resurrect this one.  I have been finishing up some other builds before turning back to these.  I was just looking at the youtube channel for hpiguy, and noticed that he predominantly uses Rustoleum and Krylon rattle cans to paint his cars.  Made me thing - would Rustoleum primer be a better barrier for the Zero paints?

I never thought about using the rattle cans you can get in Home Depot to paint model cars.  I figured the paints and primers would be too coarse, but it looks like that hpiguy was able to get very nice results.  Any downside to using those rattle cans?  Makes me wonder what I'm doing spending the money I'm spending on Tamiya, Vallejo, Zero, etc. when a couple of bucks at Home Depot might do the trick and I don't have to worry about cleaning the airbrush.  Aside from getting the particular colors one might want, do you guys see any issues using Rustoleum and Krylon?  

[65slotcar]

i have never used  Rustoleum  or Krylon  primers on a model kit.  They   may spray ok  and the actual  primer itself may be fine.  The  one major   downside  to  rattle  cans is that you can't  control  air pressure  and how heavy the material  is being put on.  Almost any primer  used in an airbrush  can be applied  very light.   Too  much primer will just  cover fine details like door  gaps  and any emblems.   I  have used  Tamiya  fine surface primer in a rattle can and it  does spray  very well  and light,  but not exactly  cheap  at $11.00 for a  180 ML  can.

[Mcpesq817]

1 hour ago, 65slotcar said:

i have never used  Rustoleum  or Krylon  primers on a model kit.  They   may spray ok  and the actual  primer itself may be fine.  The  one major   downside  to  rattle  cans is that you can't  control  air pressure  and how heavy the material  is being put on.  Almost any primer  used in an airbrush  can be applied  very light.   Too  much primer will just  cover fine details like door  gaps  and any emblems.   I  have used  Tamiya  fine surface primer in a rattle can and it  does spray  very well  and light,  but not exactly  cheap  at $11.00 for a  180 ML  can.

Yeah, the hobby paints are a lot more expensive.  The Hpiguy on youtube seems to get good results, but I'm not sure how his models look closer up.

[Matt Bacon]

Krylon is the hottest paint I’ve ever used. Never again. Plastikote Enamel is the only “craft” or auto product I still use regularly. Regular auto paints spray far too wet and heavy out of the can, and if you have to decant them and airbrush them to use, what have you gained?

best,

M.

[Dave G.]

I used Krylon primer years ago but people have said they changed the formula since then. The light grey went on thinnest. I don't recall any problems but if the formula has changed then all bets are off.

[TransAmMike]

On 2/17/2021 at 5:57 AM, Dave G. said:

I used Krylon primer years ago but people have said they changed the formula since then. The light grey went on thinnest. I don't recall any problems but if the formula has changed then all bets are off.

Ditto on the Krylon, but I haven't bought any in over a year so I'm gonna start using the Stynylrez on Dave's recommendation. 

[Jim Whalen]

I have been spraying with Zero paints for quite a while now.  After having mixed results with their primer I have switched to Badger Stynylrez primer and have been successful with quite a few models now.  It is important to do mist coats and build up the coats until you have an even coverage of your colour.  The models pictured here have Stynylrez primer and Zero basecoats.  Don't expect the base coat to be glossy and it may have a slight texture, these will be sorted by the clear coats (this is shown in the picture with the blue background of the C5 body shell).  The VW van has their clearcoat lacquer and the Corvettes have their Diamond Finish 2-pack.

[Modelbuilder Mark]

Another added benefit to Badger Stynylrez, is it acts as a good barrier AND comes in multiple (I think 12) colors other than just gray/white/red. 

https://usaairbrushsupply.com/t/stynylrez-primers

[Exotics_Builder]

27 minutes ago, Modelbuilder Mark said:

Another added benefit to Badger Stynylrez, is it acts as a good barrier AND comes in multiple (I think 12) colors other than just gray/white/red. 

https://usaairbrushsupply.com/t/stynylrez-primers

I've been thinking of trying, but wasn't sure if it would work with the lacquer paints (Zero, Tamiya, Testor, Cobra Color, Splash, Gravity) that I use for automotive. 

 

[Modelbuilder Mark]

I would always test in on spare sprue from whatever the current project is, with the topcoat you are planning on using, but I know a LOT of folks use it under Lacquer paints. 

[Dave G.]

49 minutes ago, Exotics_Builder said:

I've been thinking of trying, but wasn't sure if it would work with the lacquer paints (Zero, Tamiya, Testor, Cobra Color, Splash, Gravity) that I use for automotive. 

 

My experience with hot lacquers over Stynylrez is as mentioned to apply light coats at least initially. If you go too wet too quickly I personally have experienced some light sand scratch swelling. But even then just let dry, lightly scuff and reshoot a lighter coat and all has been well. I doubt the hobby lacquers would do that. I've had no issue with Tamiya acrylic thinned with lacquer thinner either. Nor with enamels. The sand scratch swell I got was sporadic and not heavy fwiw. Enamels go on fine thinned with enamel reducer, Mineral Spirits or lacquer thinner, no issue at all. No issue with lacquer over craft paints either with Stynylrez primer.

[Exotics_Builder]

56 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

My experience with hot lacquers over Stynylrez is as mentioned to apply light coats at least initially. If you go too wet too quickly I personally have experienced some light sand scratch swelling. But even then just let dry, lightly scuff and reshoot a lighter coat and all has been well. I doubt the hobby lacquers would do that. I've had no issue with Tamiya acrylic thinned with lacquer thinner either. Nor with enamels. The sand scratch swell I got was sporadic and not heavy fwiw. Enamels go on fine thinned with enamel reducer, Mineral Spirits or lacquer thinner, no issue at all. No issue with lacquer over craft paints either with Stynylrez primer.

Thanks.  I usually go light until the last, if a wet coat is really needed.  

[Mcpesq817]

Hey guys, sorry to resurrect this thread, but wanted to report back on my second attempt at using Zero Paints.  Part of the delay was i've been busy with family and kid stuff and other projects.  Other part - and probably the bigger part - was I was a bit anxious to retry it.  Happy to report that I had excellent results the second time around.

After sanding down the car bodies to get them as smooth as I could after the crazing, I again primed with Mr. Surfacer 1200 from the rattle can.  I actually did this step a couple of months ago, so the primer definitely had dried and cured.  Next, I shook the bottles at least one minute, and probably closer to two minutes.  That, along with using a pipette to transfer the paint to the cup rather than pour it from the bottle, probably were the two biggest improvements to the process as I think I was pouring more thinner into the cup than thinner + pigment.  From there, I sprayed multiple light coats about 10 minutes apart.  I probably sprayed a good 4-5 light coats, before going a little heavier at the end with a few more coats to even up the paint.  No crazing of the plastic at all.

I painted three Gunze Triumph bodies and the Entex Mog three wheeler with the Zero Paints using Dark British Racing Green, Midnight Blue, and Old English White (the red Triumph was painted using Mr. Color).  They sprayed incredibly well, no spitting, no clogging, etc., and cleaned up very easily using their airbrush cleaner.  I'm still very much an amateur when it comes to getting a flawless car body finish (I only have two cars under my belt at this point), but I'm getting there.  The green and blue Triumphs still show a touch of where I had crazing problems, but otherwise, I think they came out pretty nicely.  For what it's worth, I was really impressed with using Mr. Color as well.  Generally I've been modeling plane and ship models, where I usually use Tamiya and Vallejo.  I'll have to add Mr. Color to that rotation.

 

Tip:  The Zero airbrush cleaner runs very hot.  I made the stupid mistake of thinking I needed to soak the nozzle on my Iwata eclipse in the solution for a bit, so dumped the nozzle into a plastic shot cup with a bit of solution.  Well, I ruined the nozzle because the solution started melting the plastic which clogged up the nozzle. 🤬  Lesson learned I suppose.  Thankfully I had bought a couple of spares as I lost one down the sink due to another rookie mistake a year ago 🤬

Next up, I'll attempt to clear coat them with Zero 2K (I forget the name).  Hopefully that should go fairly smoothly.

I just wanted to thank you all again for the help.  I really appreciate it!  I was despondent after the first attempt and thought about trashing all the bottles, but I'm glad I posted here and tried again.  Like with most things, if you know the properties of what you're using, you can generally avoid bad results in this hobby.

Thanks!

[Modelbuilder Mark]

The weird thing about painting, is that it is not always the same experience, if any one item in the process changes, including the primer, the paint, the plastic of the model, the level of sanding steps, the time waited etc. The biggest thing I have learned, and that is the hardest to hold myself accountable to, is patience. 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Modelbuilder Mark
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