Italeri/Testors Ferrari 250 GTO Spyder

[89AKurt]

Because a Facebook group is having a Ferrari theme group build, it lit the fuse to get this done.  I've only been wanting to build this 250 GTO Spyder for about 18 years.  The pictures I took were in Prescott at a Cooper State rally, and the Monterey Historics 1994 when Ferrari was featured.  There isn't much on the web about this particular car.  It's not a real GTO for starters.  This kit was chosen just because it was a bagged kit (no box), found at a model show.  I have 3 other brand kits still in the stash, so I could build a real authentic model, someday.  I had decided to build it this year anyway, so it got bumped up in my priority list.

Comparison between kits (Fujimi kit was bought after taking this picture):

My 2021 Resolutions list:

Taking a look before starting:

First session, got the body, interior tub, and short block glued together.

It's a nice kit, so far everything fit together.  Exception is a big gap filled with plastic, not a big deal.

The headlight buckets needed some work to fit snug.  All joints are lots of superglue with baking soda.

Rough cut lines drawn on the body.  I might do the whole deck with one piece of sheet styrene.

[beeRS]

Looking forward to seeing this build. I never heard of, or saw a GTO Spyder before. 

[NOBLNG]

These are nice looking cars, I may have to look for one. Why the cut lines? Are you making it into a convertible?

[89AKurt]

6 hours ago, beeRS said:

Looking forward to seeing this build. I never heard of, or saw a GTO Spyder before. 

When I first saw it, knew it wasn't factory built.  Now with the interwebs, I found this:

Quote

You all remember the 'ZZ Topless' GTO, built in 1992 on a shortened 250 GTE chassis (#3919GT) for ZZ Top drummer Frank Beard? And there also is a yellow LWB version built on the chassis of a 250 GT Pininfarina Coupe (#1443GT). Both these GTO Spyders were built with '62/'63 GTO body style.

Topless Ferrari 250 GTO?

5 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

These are nice looking cars, I may have to look for one. Why the cut lines? Are you making it into a convertible?

Your best bet is finding the Fujimi or Revell, the Gunze and Protar are scarce and expensive.  Yes sir, just like they did with the Daytona Coupes, the Spyder is more desirable.  Just like the '68-'72 Chevy pickups, they cut Long Beds to make Short Beds.

[89AKurt]

Did the drastic deed of chopping the roof.  Used the hot-wire cutter, first step was undoing one end and slipping through a side window.

Not surprised the windshield header broke, but gave it a try.  Will make a steel one.

This is a Corian® alternate, far as I can tell it works the same.  First cuts on the table saw, then cross cut saw.

The bench disk sander was used in getting the shape in plan view.

After marking the side profiles, more disk sander to rough shape.

Glued in temporary tabs so the slab would always be in the same position.

On other projects, I've been able to use the Dremel to hollow out, but not this time.  Corian® is brittle when thin, not risking it.

Used the Dremel to cut the interior profile.   Then attacked with the rough grit sanding stick to the final profile.  This is an easy shape, the 375 NART has fender humps that would be a pain to work with.  The spoiler will be reshaped to match the real car.

This will be the form for making a vacuum-form panel.

[Italianhorses]

Looks great!

[Pete75]

2 hours ago, Italianhorses said:

Looks great!

She's gonna be cool! Fascinated by this vacuum forming business - detailed photos much appreciated 👍

[89AKurt]

20 hours ago, Italianhorses said:

Looks great!

Thanks!

18 hours ago, Pete75 said:

She's gonna be cool! Fascinated by this vacuum forming business - detailed photos much appreciated 👍

Of course, why would I build an uncool car?  😜  See below:

Today will explain my signature line.........
Last night the vents were modified, added #3 up front, and larger on the rear.  Made forms for the rear vents, which I'm happy about because the kit parts were too cupped with an ejection pin mark dead center.  The grooves on the back are for air flow under the form.

Second attempt (first was a total disaster) looks good at first, but.....  I use the welders glove when holding the frame. 🔥

Had an annoying ring.  I figured this wasn't too flat a shape, but apparently air didn't flow good enough, is my guess.

The vent scoops were good, so glued them in.

Used this panel to make a pattern, to locate the fuel cap, latch, hood hinges, and tonneau cover shape, in order to drill holes.  Used the pin vise, in the drill press to drill little holes.  Didn't wish to risk breaking the bit, so only went about 1/8" deep.

Drilled big holes on the back approximately under the tiny holes.  Then hogged out with the Dremel, being careful to creep up to the tiny holes, using the light glow through the "Corian".  Had the shop vac ready before I moved from the bench.  🌬️

This was #4, the third time was *blah blah*ed.  I don't like wasting so much 0.20" styrene! 😡  But if I open the trunk, have a lid to use.  I had drilled the fuel hole bigger since the drill press picture, that may have been enough.

Cut close with scissors, sanded with the stick, being careful to not have too tight a fit that would warp anything.  Taped in place with Scotch® tape, super glue at the corners, verified position, then worked the glue with baking soda around the edge, underneath.   Then awhile later did the top with super glue and baking soda.

I really like doing this method, the glue sets quickly, the baking soda makes it better to sand, and makes better filler than any putty.  You can see holes on the spoiler, I just put glue in, and pour on the soda, and about 10 minutes later I can sand it.

Roughed in pretty nice.  I will use Tamiya putty for the final prep.
Noticed I screwed up the interior door panels, the instructions are vague about which side of the little locator fins, but was able to fix that.

[Italianhorses]

Very cool. I have never actually done a vacu-form, but for simple parts plastic can be literally just stretched over a buck.

[Pete75]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing that. Any thoughts on paint colour yet?

[89AKurt]

On 2/14/2021 at 9:18 PM, Italianhorses said:

Very cool. I have never actually done a vacu-form, but for simple parts plastic can be literally just stretched over a buck.

These could have been done that way.  Would need a stout post to mount the bucks on.

9 hours ago, Pete75 said:

Very interesting, thanks for sharing that. Any thoughts on paint colour yet?

You bet!  Yea, even though the one used for reference is yellow, and another one is red, I'm debating how authentic to go.  Already keeping the 6 carbs, not duplicating the 250 GT Pininfarina Coupe donor engine.  I'm considering lowering the windshield now, since I have to fix it.  Painted a Daytona Spyder yellow (long time ago project), so not excited about another one.  I like the blue of the 112 car with yellow nose.  Undecided at the moment.

Edited February 16, 2021 by 89AKurt

[bisc63]

21 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

I really like doing this method, the glue sets quickly, the baking soda makes it better to sand, and makes better filler than any putty.  You can see holes on the spoiler, I just put glue in, and pour on the soda, and about 10 minutes later I can sand it.

I've read a few posts on other forums where guys have stopped using this filler method; seems it breaks down after a while. Have you had any long-term experience with this?

[89AKurt]

6 hours ago, bisc63 said:

I've read a few posts on other forums where guys have stopped using this filler method; seems it breaks down after a while. Have you had any long-term experience with this?

I've read some too.  No info on exactly what glue.  Wonder if climate has anything to do with it.  But I look at old builds that used Testors tube glue and see melted lines, so there is that.  Simple answer, no.

Tonight was scraping mold lines, hard to take a picture of that.  This kit was minimal.  There are some sink holes, worst are in the floor mats, which will be impossible to hide.  Added brass rod to stiffen the vac-form panel.  Cut down the interior bulkhead.  Hot-wire cut the windshield, was impressed that the driver window was open.

I need to research, the engine bay panels block air flow to the side fender vents, that can't be accurate!

[peteski]

Baking soda powder Sodium Bicarbonate is a type of a salt.  It is readily soluble with water.

If used as CA filler and accelerator, it triggers very fast setting of CA glue (especially the thin variety).  There doesn't seem to be much control over the reaction, and sometimes it bubbles up.  That is one of the reasons I don't use for what Kurt uses it for.

The other problem, which might not show up right away is more messy:  If some of the grains don't absorb the CA glue, if humidity gets to them they will dissolve, oozing out as liquid from the glue joint.  The likely does not happen in bone-dry climates, but where I live we have muggy summers, so I would never consider using it as CA accelerator/filler.  If one looks on the Internet, one will find some examples of such oozing glue joints.

With plenty of CA accelerates out there, and fillers (like talcum powder, plastic shavings, microbaloons, or other similar dry fillers),  IMO there really isn't a need for using Baking Soda.

[89AKurt]

21 hours ago, peteski said:

Baking soda powder Sodium Bicarbonate is a type of a salt.  It is readily soluble with water.

If used as CA filler and accelerator, it triggers very fast setting of CA glue (especially the thin variety).  There doesn't seem to be much control over the reaction, and sometimes it bubbles up.  That is one of the reasons I don't use for what Kurt uses it for.

The other problem, which might not show up right away is more messy:  If some of the grains don't absorb the CA glue, if humidity gets to them they will dissolve, oozing out as liquid from the glue joint.  The likely does not happen in bone-dry climates, but where I live we have muggy summers, so I would never consider using it as CA accelerator/filler.  If one looks on the Internet, one will find some examples of such oozing glue joints.

With plenty of CA accelerates out there, and fillers (like talcum powder, plastic shavings, microbaloons, or other similar dry fillers),  IMO there really isn't a need for using Baking Soda.

I do wash all parts before any painting, which does give me more work to do in filling tiny holes.  Heard of microbaloons, are they hollow?

[peteski]

1 hour ago, 89AKurt said:

I do wash all parts before any painting, which does give me more work to do in filling tiny holes.  Heard of microbaloons, are they hollow?

Yes, but they are microscopic in size so water absorption should not be a problem.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_microsphere

Or just Google "microbaloons" for some additional info.  Then talcum powder could be used as filler.  This discussion just gave me an idea that maybe the acrylic powder used with artificial fingernails might make excellent filler for CA glue. After all, CA is also a type of acrylic. Acrylic powder is available at beauty supply stores.

Yes, it is more expensive than baking soda, but it would be much more stable.  I'll have to try how it behaves when mixed with CA glue.

[stitchdup]

25 minutes ago, peteski said:

Yes, but they are microscopic in size so water absorption should not be a problem.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_microsphere

Or just Google "microbaloons" for some additional info.  Then talcum powder could be used as filler.  This discussion just gave me an idea that maybe the acrylic powder used with artificial fingernails might make excellent filler for CA glue. After all, CA is also a type of acrylic. Acrylic powder is available at beauty supply stores.

Yes, it is more expensive than baking soda, but it would be much more stable.  I'll have to try how it behaves when mixed with CA glue.

The nail filler isn't too much more than baking soda if you buy it from china, you can get 100 grams for about 3 quid or sets with 3 colours and tools for about 6 quid but it works much better with the liquid for it. If you use the activator liquid you have more time to shape it. The activator comes in 1, 2 , 5 and ten min setting time. If you want to try it I am happy to give advice based on the results I've had with it. I've used it for a lot of builds and even to put sectioned bodies back together or to reinforce behind sections. I got it to try casting some small parts I wanted but it didn't work too well for it but for heavy body work and filling holes it works really well. A couple word of caution with it though, the fumes are really bad and a dremell is too hot even at the lowest speed to work it but electric nail files that take dremel tools do the job fine

[peteski]

15 minutes ago, stitchdup said:

The nail filler isn't too much more than baking soda if you buy it from china, you can get 100 grams for about 3 quid or sets with 3 colours and tools for about 6 quid but it works much better with the liquid for it. If you use the activator liquid you have more time to shape it. The activator comes in 1, 2 , 5 and ten min setting time. If you want to try it I am happy to give advice based on the results I've had with it. I've used it for a lot of builds and even to put sectioned bodies back together or to reinforce behind sections. I got it to try casting some small parts I wanted but it didn't work too well for it but for heavy body work and filling holes it works really well. A couple word of caution with it though, the fumes are really bad and a dremell is too hot even at the lowest speed to work it but electric nail files that take dremel tools do the job fine

Have you tried to see if the powder dissolves in water, like baking powder does? I have feeling that it will not.

The powder is one of the parts of the acrylic nail system. The other part is the hardener.  The hardener is not just a CA glue. You can even smell the difference.  When it combines with the powder, it creates a plastic-like substance.  Originally this acrylic system was used by dentists for temporary fillings and crowns.  Trust me, it is not just baking soda.

[stitchdup]

5 minutes ago, peteski said:

Have you tried to see if the powder dissolves in water, like baking powder does? I have feeling that it will not.

The powder is one of the parts of the acrylic nail system. The other part is the hardener.  The hardener is not just a CA glue. You can even smell the difference.  When it combines with the powder, it creates a plastic-like substance.  Originally this acrylic system was used by dentists for temporary fillings and crowns.  Trust me, it is not just baking soda.

I haven't tried in water but i dont expect it would either. I'll try some in superglue when i get home though to see how it works. I suspect it wouldn't work too well though and just end up with dry powder in the centre. I find it works best when mixed before applying as you can then get it where you want it and use it in similar way to milliput depending on which time length the activator is. Incidently its what they use to make false teeth too but with a different activator. It can melt some styrene too but that just helps the bond if you are careful. The entire body of my custom lincoln is pretty much coated with the filler and some body parts entirely made from it. I plan to try the clear version to make lights at some point

[peteski]

1 minute ago, stitchdup said:

I haven't tried in water but i dont expect it would either. I'll try some in superglue when i get home though to see how it works. I suspect it wouldn't work too well though and just end up with dry powder in the centre. I find it works best when mixed before applying as you can then get it where you want it and use it in similar way to milliput depending on which time length the activator is. Incidently its what they use to make false teeth too but with a different activator. It can melt some styrene too but that just helps the bond if you are careful. The entire body of my custom lincoln is pretty much coated with the filler and some body parts entirely made from it. I plan to try the clear version to make lights at some point

My Point was that the acrylic powder is *NOT* baking soda. I'm trying to come up with an alternative to baking soda for Kurt.  I understand how the 2-part acrylic system works, but that is not what Kurt needs.  As I understand, Kurt sprinkles baking soda on some area he wants to fill or smooth, then he drops CA glue onto the powder. Or the other way around.  When the baking soda and CA glue combine, that caused a reaction, and the CA hardens instantly.

Actually I suppose he could use the acrylic system in a similar way.  Pour the acrylic powder into the area to be filled, then using eyedropper apply the liquid part of the acrylic system.  Then wait for it to harden, and sand it.  But the acrylic system does not harden as fast at the CA glue does.

I see what you mean about the CA glue not fully getting soaked into the acrylic powder. That stuff is very  fine-grained.  But maybe use extra thin CA glue, and apply the acrylic powder in thin layers? Or apply thick CA clue first, then sprinkle the acrylic powder over it?

[stitchdup]

27 minutes ago, peteski said:

My Point was that the acrylic powder is *NOT* baking soda. I'm trying to come up with an alternative to baking soda for Kurt.  I understand how the 2-part acrylic system works, but that is not what Kurt needs.  As I understand, Kurt sprinkles baking soda on some area he wants to fill or smooth, then he drops CA glue onto the powder. Or the other way around.  When the baking soda and CA glue combine, that caused a reaction, and the CA hardens instantly.

Actually I suppose he could use the acrylic system in a similar way.  Pour the acrylic powder into the area to be filled, then using eyedropper apply the liquid part of the acrylic system.  Then wait for it to harden, and sand it.  But the acrylic system does not harden as fast at the CA glue does.

I see what you mean about the CA glue not fully getting soaked into the acrylic powder. That stuff is very  fine-grained.  But maybe use extra thin CA glue, and apply the acrylic powder in thin layers? Or apply thick CA clue first, then sprinkle the acrylic powder over it?

trying it in glue just now

edit, it set fast but its like concrete, tried to sand it but it might be a little too hard

Edited February 17, 2021 by stitchdup

[peteski]

21 minutes ago, stitchdup said:

trying it in glue just now

edit, it set fast but its like concrete, tried to sand it but it might be a little too hard

Ok, now we know - thanks for trying.

[89AKurt]

Interesting discussion.  Not convincing me to change what works for me.  Looked at older projects that I've used this technique on, no evidence.  Maybe it's because I use grass-fed GMO-free "sustainable" 100% baking soda from the health food store.  😜  I will let this one sit in water for awhile, just to make sure.  To be clear, I apply the glue with a dental pick, which bonds the parts first, then sprinkle on the baking soda.  Can't imagine mixing other stuff together and gooping it on.

Tackled the screwed up windshield header.  Started with bending a K&S #5499 .020" steel wire to fit around the "glass".  Tacked in styrene on the A-pillars that fit against the "glass", and tabs at the base.  Then removed the "glass" and really glued on the styrene, then put the "glass" back in, wire glued at the ends and little drops at the upper corners, removed "glass" again.

Applied Bare Metal Foil along the top of the "glass", put back in.  Tacked in the broken part and let it set before continuing.  Clamped with the cute Hobby Lobby clothes pins, then really glued the wire and plastic header.

Managed to get the "glass" out intact, but when I was wiping off the residue from the BMF, it snapped.  🤬💥💣🗯️  Time for bed......

I didn't like the distortion of the thick "glass" anyway, so this is Murphy's Law #89 that veered me into using thin and better plastic for the "glass".  I'll do what was done on my VW Beetle:

I'm also debating on the rear fender vents.  The pictures of the real car appear to be separate panels, but this restoration shows a blending.

[peteski]

12 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

To be clear, I apply the glue with a dental pick, which bonds the parts first, then sprinkle on the baking soda.  Can't imagine mixing other stuff together and gooping it on.

But that was Les' method. Mine was to simply substitute baking soda with acrylic powder. Nothing else would change.

However, if you hare happy with your method, so be it. It is just that I would never use baking soda.  If you make sure that the powder is fully encased by the CA glue then it is probably ok and won't start oozing, even in water (since the baking soda is sealed in the glue).

[89AKurt]

Something I noticed was the air ducts are just holes.  Pictures and the cutaway drawing show a tube going back a distance, I guessed it would end at the chin of the body.  Scavenged a transistor radio antenna.

The kit hood hinge might have been okay, but I like to use wire.  Will have to be careful when opening, edge does hit the nose.