Bare Metal Foil

[Modelbuilder Mark]

1 hour ago, peteski said:

As for the marks left after burnishing, I suspect that is due to the adhesive layer being thicker than BMF, so it acts as a rubbery substrate under the foil. It will squish under the pressure of a toothpick, resulting in visible marks.

 

I was goin to say the same thing, that is what I was thinking from the looks. 

I agree, if there is a way for BMF to return to their good stuff, let's hope they do.

[slusher]

On 7/3/2021 at 6:28 PM, TransAmMike said:

I'm pretty sure someone mentioned this product before but if not, gotta say I'm pretty impressed with the results.  Bought this can at HL a while back and never actually used it.

I will say this tho, do nt try to polish it or the shine will not be the same.

Thanks for posting this I going to try it out….

[AC Norton]

JUST NOTICED THIS THREAD OF INFO IN THE LAST FEW MOMENTS....READ EVERY POSTING, AND AM TRULY CONCERNED. I HAVEN'T BEEN ACTIVE IN THE  HOBBY THE LAST 3 YEARS OR SO, BUT IN CHECKING MY BMF STOCK, I HAVE ABOUT 2/3 OF AN OLDER SHEET THAT WORKED, AND STILL WORKS PERFECTLY, AND 1/4 OF A VERY OLD SHEET THAT, EVEN THOUGH CRACKED A BIT, STILL WORKS OK WITH A LITTLE TLC.........THIS NEWS IS ALL NEW TO ME, AND I WILL CHECK OUT THE STOCK AT MY LHS TOMORROW HERE IN ONTARIO, CANADA.....BACK IN THE DAY, I USED PACTRA SILVER BRUSH ENAMEL TO DO WINDOW TRIM AND LOTS OF OTHER BITS AND SUCH....MAY HAVE TO LOOK INTO THOSE OLD METHODS ONCE AGAIN.....THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR ALL THIS INFO, AS UNFORTUNATE AS IT SOUNDS.....HEY, LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE....BUILD PRO STREET CARS, MOST HAVE ALL THE TRIM PAINTED ANYWAY, OR, JUST COLLECT PROMOS...LOL.....JUST KIDDING.....ACE....

[TransAmMike]

10 hours ago, slusher said:

Thanks for posting this I going to try it out….

Hey neighbor. Try it. Not BMF chrome like shine but close. 

[Deathgoblin]

I ordered some chrome markers from Ebay called "Silver Mirror Chrome".  There's 3 markers to the set for $12.28 (0.7mm, 1mm and 3mm) and they came from China.  Shipping was surprisingly fast.  They seem to dry quickly and also seem to be a little more touch resistant than the Molotow pens.  I'm going to try them out on some chrome places on cars and see how they handle.  Here's the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373629611290

[crazyjim]

Keep us informed, please.

[crazyjim]

I tried out ta sample of EZ Chrome that Cobraman sent to me.  In a word, TERRIBLE!   The stuff is way too thickand doesn't allow for any detail to show through.  The adhesive is super sticky.  I worked for quite some time to get the glue residue off the paint.  Some of the chrome came off fairly easy but left a clear band where the foil was.  I scrubbed for a while with enamel reducer to get it off.

[cobraman]

Hey Jim ! I see your opinion of this stuff is the same as mine. Not a replacement for BMF.

[crazyjim]

No way it'll replace BMF, Ray.  Even using that magic tool, I was unable to get the EZ Chrome down into the 300 emblem on the side of a '57 Chrysler.  For the meantime, I'll stick with BMF matte aluminum.

[Beans]

Tried to experiment with something new.

https://www.u-buy.vn/en/product/2C9O8566-therm-o-web-icraft-deco-foil-transfer-sheets-choose-your-colors-decofoil

It is super thin and almost like a rub off type of thing.  The issue is that it requires an adhesive be laid down first to make it stick.  I have tried several model adhesives and none seem to work very well.  The best result I got out of a really older testors pen.

The same company makes their own adhesive pen but the reviews of that aren't very good.  

It is designed to be used with an adhesive that gets heated which of course doesn't work well for painted areas.  Heating the paint will allow for it to stick but will also jack up all the paint around it.  

I'll keep playing with it but haven't found that it is a usable replacement.

[Snake45]

1 hour ago, Beans said:

Tried to experiment with something new.

https://www.u-buy.vn/en/product/2C9O8566-therm-o-web-icraft-deco-foil-transfer-sheets-choose-your-colors-decofoil

It is super thin and almost like a rub off type of thing.  The issue is that it requires an adhesive be laid down first to make it stick.  I have tried several model adhesives and none seem to work very well.  The best result I got out of a really older testors pen.

The same company makes their own adhesive pen but the reviews of that aren't very good.  

It is designed to be used with an adhesive that gets heated which of course doesn't work well for painted areas.  Heating the paint will allow for it to stick but will also jack up all the paint around it.  

I'll keep playing with it but haven't found that it is a usable replacement.

I suspect that this is the same type of foil that I bought in the "candy wrap" section at Michael's. When I got that home I discovered it was pretty much identical to the thin cheap generic kitchen foil I'd been using. 

For an adhesive, try Micro Metal Foil Adhesive, best stuff I've found for this. 

[Beans]

7 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

I suspect that this is the same type of foil that I bought in the "candy wrap" section at Michael's. When I got that home I discovered it was pretty much identical to the thin cheap generic kitchen foil I'd been using. 

For an adhesive, try Micro Metal Foil Adhesive, best stuff I've found for this. 

Kind of...but kind of not.  It is a foil that is attached to a backing paper (for lack of a better word).  When you lay it over an adhesive area and burnish or rub it, the foil will come free from the sheet and stick to the adhesive.  Almost like rub off decals I would use on some armor models.

It just never seems to completely cover an area.  

I am going to have to try the foil adhesive.  That may just do the trick.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Beans

[Dpate]

Dang this is crazy.  I've been in the hobby probably for a few months now, and i have like 2 packs of BMF that i haven't even used yet.  Reading all this doesn't make me excided at all smh.  I guess for chrome trim on side of vehicles it'll have to be careful masking and using your favorite black base & chrome like spaz stix, Alclad, or molotow after body is done and painted.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Dpate

[Venom]

So is this the good stuff or the junk in the photo? .... I’m a bit confused because this is the only BMF I’ve ever owned and have done very little with it. Though I read many of the posts, I didn’t read them all, so I’m not clear what’s going on. Is this a COVID related production shortage?

.... I’m all about finding products that maximize effectiveness for the hobby, so if there is a BMF that’s a lot better than what’s in my pic please explain. Thanks.  

Also, I just bought my first Molotow 1mm pen and am pretty impressed, so I ordered a refill bottle of the stuff so I can use a brush with it. Anybody got thoughts/experience on this stuff vs. BMF for chrome trim, etc?

[Snake45]

When I was a kid--about junior high--we used to take foil chewing gum wrappers (Wrigley's, I think?), peel the foil off the paper backing, and burnish it down on the (formica) desktop just for something to do in class. You'd rub it down with a fingernail, and then keep burnishing it down with your finger or a piece of paper (and of course not get caught), and if you did it right, at the end of the class you had a random-shaped blotch of "chrome" on the desk.  I wonder if they still use that stuff in chewing gum, and if it would work on model cars?

[TransAmMike]

30 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

When I was a kid--about junior high--we used to take foil chewing gum wrappers (Wrigley's, I think?), peel the foil off the paper backing, and burnish it down on the (formica) desktop just for something to do in class. You'd rub it down with a fingernail, and then keep burnishing it down with your finger or a piece of paper (and of course not get caught), and if you did it right, at the end of the class you had a random-shaped blotch of "chrome" on the desk.  I wonder if they still use that stuff in chewing gum, and if it would work on model cars?

Funny stuff there Mr. Snake. Hmmm, something to consider😉🙄😂

[AC Norton]

On 8/1/2021 at 8:34 AM, crazyjim said:

Keep us informed, please.

HI JIM,  IF I MUST CHOOSE BETWEEN ULTRA FOIL AND JUST CHROME BMF,  WHICH IS THE BETTER OF THEM OF COURSE BOTH BEING JUNK, AS EVERYONE SAYS....I WILL BE ALMOST OUT OF MY NEW IMPROVED SHEET SOON....THANKS, ACE

[crazyjim]

Both are garbage, Ace.  I've been using the BMF matte aluminum with fair results.  I've discovered that a surface must be gloss for the adhesive to stick good.

[AMT68]

2 hours ago, crazyjim said:

I've discovered that a surface must be gloss for the adhesive to stick good

That's helpful information. 

[Perspective Customs]

On 8/2/2021 at 12:02 PM, Beans said:

Kind of...but kind of not.  It is a foil that is attached to a backing paper (for lack of a better word).  When you lay it over an adhesive area and burnish or rub it, the foil will come free from the sheet and stick to the adhesive.  Almost like rub off decals I would use on some armor models.

It just never seems to completely cover an area.  

I am going to have to try the foil adhesive.  That may just do the trick.

What you have sounds like Silver Leaf. The adhesive is usually called "size", pronounced like the body of water as in the 7 seas. Here's a video of a guy, more like an artist, using it on bike's gas tank.

I've tried it on a model years ago with some success. The silver leaf seems to be almost brittle and breaks into pieces. The one I used was multi colored so it worked ok. I'll see if I have a picture.

[Bainford]

21 hours ago, Venom said:

So is this the good stuff or the junk in the photo? .... I’m a bit confused because this is the only BMF I’ve ever owned and have done very little with it. Though I read many of the posts, I didn’t read them all, so I’m not clear what’s going on. Is this a COVID related production shortage?

.... I’m all about finding products that maximize effectiveness for the hobby, so if there is a BMF that’s a lot better than what’s in my pic please explain. Thanks.  

Also, I just bought my first Molotow 1mm pen and am pretty impressed, so I ordered a refill bottle of the stuff so I can use a brush with it. Anybody got thoughts/experience on this stuff vs. BMF for chrome trim, etc?

Josh, BMF is a brand of adhesive foil, whereas the stuff in your photo is Testors. I've not used the Testors product, but seems to me those who have, reported it to be inferior to BMF.

BMF make several variants of adhesive foil; Matte Aluminum Foil, a Black Chrome Foil (regular chrome foil with a black coating), Ultra Bright Chrome, and Chrome. For this discussion, we'll ignore the Black and Matte Aluminum stuff. I don't know the full ancient history of BMF chrome, but it goes something like this; BMF produced a product called Chrome years ago and everyone loved it. Then a competitor (Detail Master?) made a product that was purported to be brighter/shinier than BMF. BMF responded by releasing a product called Ultra Bright Chrome (they still sell it, but it is an inferior product). Meanwhile, they still sold the regular Chrome. About 12-15 years ago BMF regular Chrome went through a formula change that was unpopular. They quickly corrected this by reformulating again, and called it New Improved Chrome to avoid confusion. It had retained this name, and this is the good stuff that until recently we have known and loved. Now this stuff is has been replaced once again by a product called Chrome, and once again it appears to be an inferior product. I do not know if this is just a Covid related blip in the supply chain, or if good BMF is gone forever. I dearly hope it returns, as I have 1 1/2 sheets left to do me the rest of my model building years. I love the stuff. I use it for masking sometimes, too, but that's going to end.

As for Molotow, there is some real promise there, especially if something can be found to clear coat it so it can be handled, without losing its chromeyness. Someone reported a new clear coat in another thread this week that may be effective. The problem that seems to be developing regarding Molotow is it has a relatively short shelf life. After a year or two it seems to lose it's ability to provide a good chrome appearance. Buying more than you will use in a couple years may be money wasted. I bought a couple pens and a 30 ml refill about three or four years ago, and they worked well, but now seem to be just shiny silver. I'm till experimenting with this, as the problem may be with me, but a couple others have reported the same thing. I haven't tried airbrushing this stuff yet, but some are getting very promising results. 

[Beans]

13 hours ago, Perspective Customs said:

What you have sounds like Silver Leaf. The adhesive is usually called "size", pronounced like the body of water as in the 7 seas. Here's a video of a guy, more like an artist, using it on bike's gas tank.

I've tried it on a model years ago with some success. The silver leaf seems to be almost brittle and breaks into pieces. The one I used was multi colored so it worked ok. I'll see if I have a picture.

Well that was just amazing!!  That swirl technique was awesome.  

The difference though is that the leaf does not have a top transfer paper and is therefore slightly thicker.  This stuff is super thin.  I looked at it last night and found this video of how it works on paper.  It shows the difference better than I can explain.

It is basically BMF without the adhesive.

 

[Venom]

1 hour ago, Bainford said:

Josh, BMF is a brand of adhesive foil, whereas the stuff in your photo is Testors. I've not used the Testors product, but seems to me those who have, reported it to be inferior to BMF.

BMF make several variants of adhesive foil; Matte Aluminum Foil, a Black Chrome Foil (regular chrome foil with a black coating), Ultra Bright Chrome, and Chrome. For this discussion, we'll ignore the Black and Matte Aluminum stuff. I don't know the full ancient history of BMF chrome, but it goes something like this; BMF produced a product called Chrome years ago and everyone loved it. Then a competitor (Detail Master?) made a product that was purported to be brighter/shinier than BMF. BMF responded by releasing a product called Ultra Bright Chrome (they still sell it, but it is an inferior product). Meanwhile, they still sold the regular Chrome. About 12-15 years ago BMF regular Chrome went through a formula change that was unpopular. They quickly corrected this by reformulating again, and called it New Improved Chrome to avoid confusion. It had retained this name, and this is the good stuff that until recently we have known and loved. Now this stuff is has been replaced once again by a product called Chrome, and once again it appears to be an inferior product. I do not know if this is just a Covid related blip in the supply chain, or if good BMF is gone forever. I dearly hope it returns, as I have 1 1/2 sheets left to do me the rest of my model building years. I love the stuff. I use it for masking sometimes, too, but that's going to end.

As for Molotow, there is some real promise there, especially if something can be found to clear coat it so it can be handled, without losing its chromeyness. Someone reported a new clear coat in another thread this week that may be effective. The problem that seems to be developing regarding Molotow is it has a relatively short shelf life. After a year or two it seems to lose it's ability to provide a good chrome appearance. Buying more than you will use in a couple years may be money wasted. I bought a couple pens and a 30 ml refill about three or four years ago, and they worked well, but now seem to be just shiny silver. I'm till experimenting with this, as the problem may be with me, but a couple others have reported the same thing. I haven't tried airbrushing this stuff yet, but some are getting very promising results. 

Trevor, this is packed with info I needed to know ... Thank you for taking the time to sort it all out for me. On all my earlier models I just always used the Model Masters Chrome paint for my trim, but once I joined this forum I started to realize how much better the foil looked, and I had assumed that “BMF” was just a general term for any of the different brands of foil. Understanding the history now is a whole new revelation for me!😃

You have me wondering a bit now about the Molotow ... If the stuff actually does dull down over time in a container, I wonder if it can also dull down after years of being applied, and if so I wonder if a clear coat over it has any ability to protect that from happening? I don’t know how long it’s been on the market, so I don’t know if enough time has passed for modelers to have any definitive answers on this. Certainly would be good to know.

Thanks again Trevor!👍

[AC Norton]

18 hours ago, crazyjim said:

Both are garbage, Ace.  I've been using the BMF matte aluminum with fair results.  I've discovered that a surface must be gloss for the adhesive to stick good.

THANKS JIM, FOR NEWS I WAS EXPECTING TO HEAR....I HAVE EXHAUSTED ALL POSSIBLE LEADS UP AROUND HERE TO GET THE OLDER GOOD STUFF, SO MAYBE LEARNING THE SHARPIES TREATMENT MAY BE THE WAY NOW.....BEST, ACE...

[Bainford]

38 minutes ago, Venom said:

You have me wondering a bit now about the Molotow ... If the stuff actually does dull down over time in a container, I wonder if it can also dull down after years of being applied, and if so I wonder if a clear coat over it has any ability to protect that from happening? I don’t know how long it’s been on the market, so I don’t know if enough time has passed for modelers to have any definitive answers on this. Certainly would be good to know.

Thanks again Trevor!👍

You are very welcome, Josh.

Molotow that I applied a few years ago still looks like chrome. It seems that the liquid Molotow has a shelf life, but once applied it will retain it's chrome, if left undisturbed. It should be left to cure for several days (according to many users) and once applied, one should refrain from touching it, as it will dull. Some have reported that a dehydrator will make Molotow shinier and more durable, others have said the dehydrator dulled the shine. Clearly, personal experimentation should be undertaken.