Issue with clear coat

[plasticprime]

I could use some assistance with a current build of a 1963 Ford Galaxie. I used Tamiya Fine Surface Primer L on the body, sanded it, waited a week and then applied Tamiya Mica Blue (TS-50), in a mist coat followed by a wet coat. (Everything was applied straight from rattle cans, which had been warmed prior to use. Cans were well agitated and were shaken throughout the process. Ambient outside temp was in low 90s with no humidity.) At this point, everything looked fine and I set the body aside for a week. Then I applied Testors Wet Look Clear (1834) in several fine mist coats. Everything was jake at this point. I waited 10 minutes and applied a heavier coat of the clear, but as soon as it hit the plastic I could tell things had gone south. The second coat of clear was orange-peeling and had fine ripples in it (I had the can about 7”-8” inches away from the work and applied it in smooth, continuous strokes).

I then tried to sand out the clear following published articles and tutorials. I wet sanded half of the hood with Micro Mesh pads in the sequence of 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000, and 12000, alternating direction with each successive grit. What I wound up with didn’t match the photos in the articles/tutorials and isn’t satisfactory to me.

 The accompanying photos aren’t all that great, but they should provide some idea of what I’m talking about.

I’d appreciate thoughts and suggestions on what did I wrong when applying the clear coat. And as far as the sanding goes, could it be that I needed to spend more time sanding with the initial 3600 grit? Should I have started with a coarser grit to begin with? Thanks for your help!

[Snake45]

In my experience, Wet Look Clear is very tough stuff. It looks to me like you haven't smoothed it out down to level yet. I've never used the Micro Mesh pads so can't comment on their grit. If I were trying to fix this, I'd start with 3M WetOrDry #1000 grit, wet. Then on to #1500, then #2000, again, wet. Then my beloved Wright's Silver Cream. 

[mr moto]

My experience is that I can't get a good finish with anything made by Testors if I use it straight from the can. Wet Look Clear works great if decanted and airbrushed. If you need to use a spray can, you'll probably get a better result with a different brand like Tamiya. Just my experience.

[Ace-Garageguy]

You didn't sand enough, pure and simple.

The idea is to LEVEL THE ORANGE PEEL FIRST. COMPLETELY.

And 3600 just isn't coarse enough to level heavy peel like that. 800 or as Snake recommends, 1000, would be a better grit to start with.

Then the successively finer grits remove the previous grit's sanding scratches.

You need to understand the process, and look very carefully at the results of each successive sanding step. If you really look closely, you can see exactly what you've accomplished...or not...and how much more you need to do.

Just rubbing the thing with a few swipes of sandpaper or pads  and then moving to a finer grit won't get it.

Far as Testors clear being garbage goes, I shot both of these with "wet look", and the Chevelle was sanded and polished.

NOTE: The Chevelle pix are prior to a correct and full wetsand / polish. I was under an online contest deadline. The Olds hood is exactly as shot...no sanding or polishing at all.

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af320/fastoldcarz/Gearz 70 Chevelle/DSCN5584.jpg

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af320/fastoldcarz/Gearz 70 Chevelle/DSCN5573.jpg

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af320/fastoldcarz/50 Olds fastback chopped/AUG12014Caddy_Challenger_50olds079_zps80fcb570.jpg

EDIT:  The new improved website won't display my own pix copied from this very site, and I have neither the time nor interest to compensate for the changes. The links, however, appear to be clickable.

EDIT 2: Developing your spray technique to minimize the amount of orange-peel you get would be very helpful as well. Orange-peel is not inevitable.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy

[Matt Bacon]

If you've used Tamiya primer and Tamiya TS acrylic spray paint, then really you want to be using Tamiya TS-13 clear over the top. Many paint ranges will mix and match, but you can't guarantee it, and it's so much easier just to use compatible paints from the off. It also makes a big difference how old your cans are -- how long have you had the "Wet Look Clear?

If you apply the paint and clear coat right, there's really no need to sand primer, base coat and clear through all of those finer and finer grits...

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234956647-matts-tips-for-painting-cars/

best,

M.

[Ace-Garageguy]

DOUBLE POST

Edited May 10, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy

[Zippi]

I'm still working with my paint process and mine looked like yours my first time around.  I went ahead and stripped the paint to try again.  I'm not sure about your process but I think my paint was to thick and I didn't give the gloss enough time to cure.  More wet sanding would probably take more of the orange peel out but in my case I ended up burning through some of the edges.

[Miatatom]

One issue I see is that you didn't put enough paint on the edges. It's easy to sand through the color coats if you don't.

[Plowboy]

1. Throw away the Testors and get Tamiya TS-13 clear.

2. Buy the Tamiya polishing compounds (Course, Fine and Finish). You'll never need the polishing pads past 4000 grit again. I've done several paint jobs using 2000 grit and then the polishing compounds.

3. You don't have to do mist coats with Tamiya. Mist coats cause orange peel. It works for enamel. Not so much with lacquer as it dries quickly. You would literally have to try to make it run in my experience. I spray three wet coats of paint or two if the second covers well and three wet coats of clear. If I get good paint coverage with two coats, I'll spray two coats of clear the next day and one the next. If not, I'll spray a coat of paint and a coat of clear the next day (ten minutes between coats), then two coats of clear the next. Let it dry 2-3 days, sand smooth with 2000 and 4000 and polish with the compounds. You won't believe how easy the Tamiya compounds makes getting a slick paint job!

[espo]

I have also had this happen once in a while. Usually the main cause is applying the additional clear coats before the first coat had time to "flash" as the manufactures usually suggest a 20 minute time for that to happen. Also if the second coat is to heavy of an application can also lead to the same problem. My best painting results usually include staying with the same brand of paint thru out. I had the exact same thing on the roof of a '56 Chevrolet sedan delivery and I had to sand the surface to the point that the color coat was being effected before I could get it smooth again. 

[DiscoRover007]

I don't think the orange peel is that bad first off. You just need patience and elbow  grease to polish it out. Be careful sanding down clear. I try not to do it all much anymore. I like to leave the clear as thick a layer as possible to protect it. Ill use compound but I dont sand unless the orange peel is super serious.

[Steamboat]

On 5/9/2021 at 3:11 PM, mr moto said:

My experience is that I can't get a good finish with anything made by Testors if I use it straight from the can. Wet Look Clear works great if decanted and airbrushed. If you need to use a spray can, you'll probably get a better result with a different brand like Tamiya. Just my experience.

X2!

A Testors rattle can is OK for flat black and that's about it!

[plasticprime]

On 5/9/2021 at 8:31 PM, Plowboy said:

1. Throw away the Testors and get Tamiya TS-13 clear.

2. Buy the Tamiya polishing compounds (Course, Fine and Finish). You'll never need the polishing pads past 4000 grit again. I've done several paint jobs using 2000 grit and then the polishing compounds.

3. You don't have to do mist coats with Tamiya. Mist coats cause orange peel. It works for enamel. Not so much with lacquer as it dries quickly. You would literally have to try to make it run in my experience. I spray three wet coats of paint or two if the second covers well and three wet coats of clear. If I get good paint coverage with two coats, I'll spray two coats of clear the next day and one the next. If not, I'll spray a coat of paint and a coat of clear the next day (ten minutes between coats), then two coats of clear the next. Let it dry 2-3 days, sand smooth with 2000 and 4000 and polish with the compounds. You won't believe how easy the Tamiya compounds makes getting a slick paint job!

I appreciate your advice! Where do you obtain the Tamiya polishing compounds? My local hobby shop guy said they haven't been available in the US for years, and every online place I've tried to date says "out of stock." Are the Novus products good?

[plasticprime]

6 hours ago, Steamboat said:

X2!

A Testors rattle can is OK for flat black and that's about it!

 

On 5/9/2021 at 11:21 AM, Snake45 said:

In my experience, Wet Look Clear is very tough stuff. It looks to me like you haven't smoothed it out down to level yet. I've never used the Micro Mesh pads so can't comment on their grit. If I were trying to fix this, I'd start with 3M WetOrDry #1000 grit, wet. Then on to #1500, then #2000, again, wet. Then my beloved Wright's Silver Cream. 

Thanks! The consensus seems to be that, among other things, I didn't sand enough. 

[plasticprime]

On 5/9/2021 at 7:31 PM, Miatatom said:

One issue I see is that you didn't put enough paint on the edges. It's easy to sand through the color coats if you don't.

Yup - a problem, especially on the hood. Thanks!

[plasticprime]

On 5/9/2021 at 5:12 PM, Zippi said:

I'm still working with my paint process and mine looked like yours my first time around.  I went ahead and stripped the paint to try again.  I'm not sure about your process but I think my paint was to thick and I didn't give the gloss enough time to cure.  More wet sanding would probably take more of the orange peel out but in my case I ended up burning through some of the edges.

I'm new to this, so I guess it reinforces the old adage that experience is the best teacher. I'm viewing this build as a test case, and if I have to strip it back down to bare plastic, so be it. Thanks!

[plasticprime]

On 5/9/2021 at 2:11 PM, Matt Bacon said:

If you've used Tamiya primer and Tamiya TS acrylic spray paint, then really you want to be using Tamiya TS-13 clear over the top. Many paint ranges will mix and match, but you can't guarantee it, and it's so much easier just to use compatible paints from the off. It also makes a big difference how old your cans are -- how long have you had the "Wet Look Clear?

If you apply the paint and clear coat right, there's really no need to sand primer, base coat and clear through all of those finer and finer grits...

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234956647-matts-tips-for-painting-cars/

 

best,

M.

The cans are all fairly new - certainly no more than a year or so.

[plasticprime]

On 5/9/2021 at 12:29 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

You didn't sand enough, pure and simple.

The idea is to LEVEL THE ORANGE PEEL FIRST. COMPLETELY.

And 3600 just isn't coarse enough to level heavy peel like that. 800 or as Snake recommends, 1000, would be a better grit to start with.

Then the successively finer grits remove the previous grit's sanding scratches.

You need to understand the process, and look very carefully at the results of each successive sanding step. If you really look closely, you can see exactly what you've accomplished...or not...and how much more you need to do.

Just rubbing the thing with a few swipes of sandpaper or pads  and then moving to a finer grit won't get it.

Far as Testors clear being garbage goes, I shot both of these with "wet look", and the Chevelle was sanded and polished.

NOTE: The Chevelle pix are prior to a correct and full wetsand / polish. I was under an online contest deadline. The Olds hood is exactly as shot...no sanding or polishing at all.

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af320/fastoldcarz/Gearz 70 Chevelle/DSCN5584.jpg

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af320/fastoldcarz/Gearz 70 Chevelle/DSCN5573.jpg

http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af320/fastoldcarz/50 Olds fastback chopped/AUG12014Caddy_Challenger_50olds079_zps80fcb570.jpg

EDIT:  The new improved website won't display my own pix copied from this very site, and I have neither the time nor interest to compensate for the changes. The links, however, appear to be clickable.

EDIT 2: Developing your spray technique to minimize the amount of orange-peel you get would be very helpful as well. Orange-peel is not inevitable.

 

I'm definitely in the learning stage, so I appreciate your advice. Thanks! By the way, your work looks great!

[Plowboy]

5 hours ago, plasticprime said:

I appreciate your advice! Where do you obtain the Tamiya polishing compounds? My local hobby shop guy said they haven't been available in the US for years, and every online place I've tried to date says "out of stock." Are the Novus products good?

I bought mine through ebay a few years ago. I tried the Novus. Wasn't impressed at all.

[youpey]

I kind of agree with the others regarding using tamiya clear over tamiya paint.

I haven't had much luck with testors products, but never had an issue with tamiya. Their clear is very nice

[Dodge Driver]

2 hours ago, Plowboy said:

I bought mine through ebay a few years ago. I tried the Novus. Wasn't impressed at all.

I have a full-size Novus kit that was found in the trash at work.  Would you advise it be returned there to be replaced with Tamiya compound? I'll happily spend a few bucks to achieve a better paint finish. 

[youpey]

1 hour ago, Dodge Driver said:

I have a full-size Novus kit that was found in the trash at work.  Would you advise it be returned there to be replaced with Tamiya compound? I'll happily spend a few bucks to achieve a better paint finish. 

I haven't used the novus yet but the tamiya is really good.  The tubes are very small though.

 

I do have plans to try different ones because the tamiya is so expensive for how little you actually get

[Miatatom]

I've started another discussion to compare Novus and Tamiya polishing compounds.

 

[Plowboy]

2 hours ago, Dodge Driver said:

I have a full-size Novus kit that was found in the trash at work.  Would you advise it be returned there to be replaced with Tamiya compound? I'll happily spend a few bucks to achieve a better paint finish. 

That's what I would do. I bought three tubes some years ago and have lost count of how many paint jobs I've polished with them. Best money I ever spent!

[Dodge Driver]

10 minutes ago, Plowboy said:

That's what I would do. I bought three tubes some years ago and have lost count of how many paint jobs I've polished with them. Best money I ever spent!

Thanks.  I'm sold on every other Tamiya product I use.  I expect no different from the polishing compound.