Early smallblock Ford engines

[junkyardjeff]

Thinking about building the Falcon Ranchero kit again and going to put in a more authentic engine,I thought I read a resin six was made but if I want to go with a V8 I would like to go with one that could be made to look like a 62 221 or a 63 260 so what kit had the best early smallblock.

[Fat Brian]

The AMT Sunbeam Tiger has a 260 v8.

[Bills72sj]

67 Mustang GT has a decent SBF in it.

[afx]

I agree the AMT '67 Mustang has a nice SBF in 1/25 scale.  I also like the Revellogram '65/'66 Mustang/Shelby SBF.  Its 1/24 scale but have used successfully in several 1/25 scale builds.

In a 1/25 scale AMT '66 Falcon.

Edited May 19, 2021 by afx

[tim boyd]

40 minutes ago, afx said:

I also like the Revellogram '65/'66 Mustang/Shelby SBF.  Its 1/24 scale but have used successfully in several 1/25 scale builds.

 

 

JC.....killer job on that engine.  Looks so real.....TIM 

PS - Jeff, the engine in the AMT Shelby Cobra Roadster Trophy Series kit is thought to be a 260 V8 as that is what was put in the early Cobra roadsters built by Shelby....TB 

 

[dodgefever]

45 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

PS - Jeff, the engine in the AMT Shelby Cobra Roadster Trophy Series kit is thought to be a 260 V8 as that is what was put in the early Cobra roadsters built by Shelby....TB 

 

It is, but it's about .080" too narrow compared with the SBF engines in the AMT '67 Mustang and the Revell '32 Fords and the heads have no detail at all.   I'm building one now.  I've widened the block and I'm using the heads and a modified intake from the '32 Ford kit.

[junkyardjeff]

I would like one that can be made stock and will have to substitute a generator for the alternator.

[afx]

1 hour ago, dodgefever said:

It is, but it's about .080" too narrow compared with the SBF engines in the AMT '67 Mustang and the Revell '32 Fords and the heads have no detail at all.   I'm building one now.  I've widened the block and I'm using the heads and a modified intake from the '32 Ford kit.

I have used the Revellogram SBF in several AMT Cobra builds.  A few detail changes can be made for it to represents a 260.

 

[afx]

1 hour ago, junkyardjeff said:

I would like one that can be made stock and will have to substitute a generator for the alternator.

The Trumpeter Ford Falcon kits include a 260 with a generator.

[Scott8950]

11 hours ago, junkyardjeff said:

Thinking about building the Falcon Ranchero kit again and going to put in a more authentic engine,I thought I read a resin six was made but if I want to go with a V8 I would like to go with one that could be made to look like a 62 221 or a 63 260 so what kit had the best early smallblock.

I think I have a 63 engine from a Fairlane but if I remember correctly it was built without being painted but I will double check after work. 

[Snake45]

The engine in the oft-reissued AMT '66 Mustang HT might provide some useful base/low-line details (valve covers, manifold, etc.). 

[thatz4u]

39 minutes ago, Scott8950 said:

I think I have a 63 engine from a Fairlane but if I remember correctly it was built without being painted but I will double check after work. 

the AMT 63 Mercury Meteor has one also...

[junkyardjeff]

I am going to see if I can build it having the oil fil in the timing chain cover,I grabbed those parts off a 260 in a junkyard to make a newer 302 look like a 260.

[Force]

As the 221, 260, 289 and 302 basically is the same engine with different bore/stroke so you can use either with some small changes, the early ones have the oil filler tube on the timing chain cover and pre-1965 they have a generator, you also need the right looking valve covers and air cleaner and if you want to have power steering you need to add an Eaton pump used on all early Ford engines.
I see the Trumpeter Falcon was mentioned but that engine is not very good as it's kind of large, bulky and crude...the 221-302 Ford is a tiny engine and the Trumpeter version looks way too large.

[RancheroSteve]

All of the above suggestions are valid, but I'll also second the reservations about the Trumpeter engine - as far as I can see, the generator and bracket are about the only accurate parts on that engine.

Unless you're a real stickler for detail, there's not any essential differences between the 221, 260, 289, and 302 block and heads, except that the 221, 260 and early 289s had five bolt bellhousings vs. the 6 bolt bellhousings from mid-'64 up. Not something that most folks will be concerned with in scale!

Also maybe keep in mind that Rancheros weren't available with V8s until mid-'63, so if you're building a model you have the freedom of imaging the V8 being added later down the road and thus have the freedom of building it with an alternator or whatever peripherals you choose.

Edited May 21, 2021 by RancheroSteve

[junkyardjeff]

I plan on building it as the 221 was swapped in right after they came out in 62 so I want it to look that era.

[junkyardjeff]

I am also thinking of putting a 4 speed in around a couple years after the swap the 221 tore up the original 3 speed so it got upgraded.

[jas1957]

On 5/18/2021 at 10:54 PM, junkyardjeff said:

Thinking about building the Falcon Ranchero kit again and going to put in a more authentic engine,I thought I read a resin six was made but if I want to go with a V8 I would like to go with one that could be made to look like a 62 221 or a 63 260 so what kit had the best early smallblock.

The 221,260,289,302 & 351 W were all externally the same basic engine.  Different bores & stroke to give the different displacement. 

[mk11]

Just to help with accurate sizing, the 221 -302 engines were 18.75" wide in 1:1 (351W 21") which translates to .76 wide in 1/25.

On 5/19/2021 at 5:15 AM, tim boyd said:

PS - Jeff, the engine in the AMT Shelby Cobra Roadster Trophy Series kit is thought to be a 260 V8 as that is what was put in the early Cobra roadsters built by Shelby....TB 

 

It looks to be the same as the amt '66 Mustang engine mentioned by Snake and has the timing cover oil tube used on the 221, 260 and early 289s (pre '65). Been wanting to build one of these early ones with the generator as well. If going for complete detail, don't forget the draft tube at the back of the manifold .

[Force]

On 5/23/2021 at 10:31 PM, jas1957 said:

The 221,260,289,302 & 351 W were all externally the same basic engine.  Different bores & stroke to give the different displacement. 

The 221-302 are but not the 351W, it's closely related and the 351W has the same 4.00 inch bore as the 289 and 302, but the 351W has longer stroke at 3.50 inches and the deck hight is 1.30 inches taller for that to work, so the 351W is both taller and wider than the others, there are also other differences but that's the most noticable externally.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Force

[dodgefever]

On 5/19/2021 at 2:52 PM, afx said:

I have used the Revellogram SBF in several AMT Cobra builds.  A few detail changes can be made for it to represents a 260.

 

Nice. I'm planning to use a Spalding Flamethrower on mine too.

[afx]

12 hours ago, dodgefever said:

Nice. I'm planning to use a Spalding Flamethrower on mine too.

I scratch built mine from Evergreen solid rod and C-channel.

[Muncie]

I don't think anybody has mentioned this - the early 221 and 260 engine had a five bolt bellhousing, later engines had six.  Probably not a big deal in our world where that area is hardly visible but it can be a big deal in full size when trying to bolt the bellhousing to the block..  Early blocks are difficult to find.

 

  more here - Ford Small-Block Engine Interchange Guide: Cylinder Block (diyford.com)

see the web site for more details

Ford Small-Block Engine Interchange Guide: Cylinder Block

The engine block is the foundation on which everything is built. What you’ve got to work with determines the best-possible choices for you down the road in your engine build. The information that follows will allow you to properly identify the wide range of factory blocks that were made, and the distinctive characteristics of each.

 

221/260/289/302

Block identification is straightforward with 221, 260, 289, and 302 cubic-inch Fords. The 221 and 260 are both five-bolt bellhousing blocks with either a 3.500- inch bore for the 221 or 3.800-inch for the 260. Casting numbers and date codes are C2OE and C3OE, located just above the starter. These blocks are easy to spot because their bores are smaller than the 4.000-inch bores found on the 289/302. Deck cooling passages are an odd triangular shape as well, which is another element that differentiates them from the 289 and 302. Early 1962 model year 221 and 260 blocks had two 11⁄2-inch freeze plugs on each side, which later became three freeze plugs in 1963. These early blocks are also differentiated via engine mount bolt hole spacing, with the earliest 221/260 blocks being 6 inches apart along with two freeze plugs instead of three. Changes to three freeze plugs and different engine-mount bolt hole spacing happened early in the 1963 model year to reduce NVH.

Here are the two basic bellhousing bolt patterns side by side. On the left is the smaller 5-bolt bellhousing used through 1964 with 221, 260, and 289 engines. On the right is the larger 6-bolt pattern from 1965 on. Note a larger transmission bolt pattern as well with the 6-bolt, which also includes the smaller 1962–1964 transmission bolt pattern.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Muncie

[Force]

6 hours ago, Muncie said:

I don't think anybody has mentioned this - the early 221 and 260 engine had a five bolt bellhousing, later engines had six.  Probably not a big deal in our world where that area is hardly visible but it can be a big deal in full size when trying to bolt the bellhousing to the block..  Early blocks are difficult to find.

The early 289's also had the five bolt pattern and they changed for the 1965 model year to the six bolt.
I used to own a 1964 Fairlane with a 289 and C4 and it was a five bolt block.
The early 221, 260 and 289 blocks are not that sught after as there are not much to choose from when it comes to transmissions for them, so most upgrade to a later engine with six bolt pattern if you don't restore to factory original.

[RancheroSteve]

2 hours ago, Force said:

The early 289's also had the five bolt pattern and they changed for the 1965 model year to the six bolt.
I used to own a 1964 Fairlane with a 289 and C4 and it was a five bolt block.

Yes, correct - I should have mentioned that the early 289s had five bolt blocks. The transition to six bolt blocks began in August of 1964.