Modern Day Space Race...

[Bronzekeg]

GREED, tax 'em to fix what damage we've already done to this place we all call home. I don't have anything in common with a billionaire, chances are you don't either.

[Ace-Garageguy]

7 hours ago, Bronzekeg said:

GREED, tax 'em to fix what damage we've already done to this place we all call home. I don't have anything in common with a billionaire, chances are you don't either.

Funny how none of these space-race guys inherited or stole their wealth, but they should be penalized for the success they achieved through hard work and applied intelligence in a free-market system. Time for Atlas to shrug.

And I'm always curious to know the carbon-footprint and daily efforts to "save the planet" of folks who make pronouncements like this.

Personally, I'd hazard to guess that my own carbon-footprint and contribution to pollution in general is among the lowest of anyone frequenting this board...even though I'm a hard-core hands-on gearhead and often operate older pre-emissions vehicles.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 7/22/2021 at 11:48 AM, Snake45 said:

And there it is: They at least had hope of finding "greener pastures." They weren't leaving to go to a known desert with no food, no water, no air, and no hope of getting back. 

I don't have much use for Bezos or his company, though he's made his money fair and square in a free-market system. Nobody has ever been coerced to work for him or buy from him. And though he's no rocket scientist himself, being what's known now as a "midwit", he saw the potential of modern technology to implement the old-as-mankind "buy low, sell high" middleman philosophy on a global scale. And at least he's spending a chunk of his cash on fostering new technologies...even though typically he pays his own rocket scientists considerably less than Mr. Musk pays his.

Mr. Branson made much of his pile providing transportation in markets simply unserved by anyone else. No surprise he should get in on the ground floor of the space tourism business...and his bucks have made the development of the Rutan-derived second-generation reusable "space plane" a reality. The vehicle has countless potential uses and benefits for Earth-bound humanity, most of which most humans haven't even thought of yet. 

And speaking of Mr. Musk, I personally see his interest in the colonization of other worlds as hopeful indeed, but tempered by a hard acceptance of reality. He cautions against the rapid development of self-aware AI, knowing full well it's likely to exhibit every negative characteristic of human nature, while developing AI himself. He knows bad AI is inevitable, humans being what they are, and is working to counter it.

He's also working to build systems that have the potential to impact the environment in positive ways, but once again is enough of a realist to understand that people will continue fouling their own nest just because that's what most people do...while blaming somebody else. Mr. Musk's efforts toward space colonization are intended to provide a fallback position for humanity in the event most people continue being destructive, wasteful, willfully-ignorant, hypocritical, and stupid. Which is pretty dammed likely. That, to me, is the epitome of "hope".

[Snake45]

Ace, you made a good argument, and you made it with respect. Respect back. 

[RSchnell]

6 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I don't have much use for Bezos or his company, though he's made his money fair and square in a free-market system. Nobody has ever been coerced to work for him or buy from him. And though he's no rocket scientist himself, being what's known now as a "midwit", he saw the potential of modern technology to implement the old-as-mankind "buy low, sell high" middleman philosophy on a global scale. And at least he's spending a chunk of his cash on fostering new technologies...even though typically he pays his own rocket scientists considerably less than Mr. Musk pays his.

Mr. Branson made much of his pile providing transportation in markets simply unserved by anyone else. No surprise he should get in on the ground floor of the space tourism business...and his bucks have made the development of the Rutan-derived second-generation reusable "space plane" a reality. The vehicle has countless potential uses and benefits for Earth-bound humanity, most of which most humans haven't even thought of yet. 

And speaking of Mr. Musk, I personally see his interest in the colonization of other worlds as hopeful indeed, but tempered by a hard acceptance of reality. He cautions against the rapid development of self-aware AI, knowing full well it's likely to exhibit every negative characteristic of human nature, while developing AI himself. He knows bad AI is inevitable, humans being what they are, and is working to counter it.

He's also working to build systems that have the potential to impact the environment in positive ways, but once again is enough of a realist to understand that people will continue fouling their own nest just because that's what most people do...while blaming somebody else. Mr. Musk's efforts toward space colonization are intended to provide a fallback position for humanity in the event most people continue being destructive, wasteful, willfully-ignorant, hypocritical, and stupid. Which is pretty dammed likely. That, to me, is the epitome of "hope".

Post of the day right there. Nice post Bill! It's also worth noting that both Musk & Bezos have helped revitalize an ailing economy among the Space Coast of Florida, namely Brevard County.(I'm sure this is true for other locales, but I've seen it first hand here) When the Shuttle program ended quite a few NASA employees as well as contractor's employees were furloughed. Everything from food service to building new launch sites has brought a lot of good paying jobs.

I took these photos standing on the beach in Cape Canaveral. The first pic is Bezos' Blue Origin launch pad at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, the second is a snap I took 5 minutes later. One of Elon Musk's Space X rockets going up. It never gets old watching & hearing a launch.

 

[deuces wild]

Sorry fellas... I'd rather keep my keaster (@$$)🤬😇 on the ground....

[JollySipper]

On 7/24/2021 at 12:32 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

the success they achieved through hard work and applied intelligence in a free-market system.

Isn't that the American Dream, after all?

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 minutes ago, JollySipper said:

Isn't that the American Dream, after all?

That was always my understanding, and it's why people from all over the world who want to work to achieve a better life still see this country as the-land-of-unlimited-opportunity.

But we have an ever growing element who think they're entitled to a zero-effort free ride.

Many of these same folks believe that everyone who achieves success does it by stealing from the poor, the pitiful, and the downtrodden; so rather than building productive, rewarding lives, they make excuses and look for someone to lay the blame on for their failure.

And while it's true that the world has no shortage of the insanely greedy, power-mad, corrupt, and crooked, it's not true that those terms apply to all who achieve wealth.

 

[slusher]

I believe the money they are using would be better used cleaning the ocean of plastics, garbage and shipping containers.  Rivers and lakes of garbage. Just my thoughts..

[stitchdup]

5 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

And while it's true that the world has no shortage of the insanely greedy, power-mad, corrupt, and crooked, it's not true that those terms apply to all who achieve wealth.

 

and those three fit that description perfectly, last years

branson begged for a bailout for his airline while pumping cash into his space program and actively lobbied the government to open up air travel to countries that were being innundated with the virus, bezos staff get no time for bathroom breaks and he actively avoids paying taxes, musk told his staff at tesla if they didn't come to work during a mandated lockdown they would be fired yet still people only see wealth as giving them the right to do this. We all pay our share of taxes, yet its us that have to bail out them when things are tight. Remember these are the same people that tell us we should save for a rainy day on minimum wages but always get to the top of the list for govenment handouts. But their billionaires so they get a pass for being terrible examples of humans

[Snake45]

7 hours ago, slusher said:

I believe the money they are using would be better used cleaning the ocean of plastics, garbage and shipping containers.  Rivers and lakes of garbage. Just my thoughts..

Probably everyone on the planet has an idea of how someone else's money could be "better used." Fortunately, that's not how we do things in America--at least for the time being. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Here's a link to one of the most fair and balanced and honest and rational articles I've come across so far regarding this topic (and I'm fully aware that "fair and balanced and honest and rational" has little appeal for those who see everything through the lens of dogma):

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/heres-why-richard-bransons-flight-matters-and-yes-it-really-matters/

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Snake45 said:

Probably everyone on the planet has an idea of how someone else's money could be "better used." Fortunately, that's not how we do things in America--at least for the time being. 

Indeed...

[bobthehobbyguy]

9 hours ago, slusher said:

I believe the money they are using would be better used cleaning the ocean of plastics, garbage and shipping containers.  Rivers and lakes of garbage. Just my thoughts..

I agree. We need to address these issues instead of worrying about flying into space. There are no habitable planets that we can go to so space travel is a luxury and not a necessity. 

 

6 hours ago, stitchdup said:

and those three fit that description perfectly, last years

branson begged for a bailout for his airline while pumping cash into his space program and actively lobbied the government to open up air travel to countries that were being innundated with the virus, bezos staff get no time for bathroom breaks and he actively avoids paying taxes, musk told his staff at tesla if they didn't come to work during a mandated lockdown they would be fired yet still people only see wealth as giving them the right to do this. We all pay our share of taxes, yet its us that have to bail out them when things are tight. Remember these are the same people that tell us we should save for a rainy day on minimum wages but always get to the top of the list for govenment handouts. But their billionaires so they get a pass for being terrible examples of humans

I agree. And if these gentlemen were less greedy they would have made an effort to help the people who were impacted by covid. No articles of any of these gentlemen setting up soup kitchens or food banks. Lets face it you don't get this rich without doing it at the expense of others and the richer you get allows you to be more ruthless in dealing with others.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by bobthehobbyguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

I agree. We need to address these issues instead of worrying about flying into space...

I see you're very concerned about cleaning up plastic and garbage from oceans and waterways. I also see you live close to Lake Oroville, and the Pacific Ocean is only about a 2 hour drive from your home. I'm curious to know, in light of your evident environmental consciousness, exactly what you have done to address this issue.

1 hour ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

...you don't get this rich without doing it at the expense of others...

Please explain exactly how this works to those of us too blinded by the concept of "free market" to understand.

[Dave Ambrose]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I see you're very concerned about cleaning up plastic and garbage from oceans and waterways. I also see you live close to Lake Oroville, and the Pacific Ocean is only about a 2 hour drive from your home. I'm curious to know, in light of your evident environmental consciousness, exactly what you have done to address this issue.

Please explain exactly how this works to those of us too blinded by the concept of "free market" to understand.

Answering that question would take this topic straight into the political realm. We don't do that here. 

I'm locking this topic so it doesn't get out of hand.