What is your method to the madness for clearcoating over decals on body perfectly?

[Plumcrazy Preston]

David can also practice with a few of the good "virgin parts" in one of his amt truck kits since he already laid down $57 for a copy of his first kit anyway. Perhaps a pefect paint job is something of an opium pipe dream. Some of us might be able achieve a paint job we are just plain happy about. The bottom line, I seek happiness, not perfection, from building model vehicles and planes. These models are only book shelf dummies to just admire and not drive like something with a gasoline engine in it. I only care that my models look neat to myself and any casual observers like neighbors, guests, friends, family and relatives.

 

Are YOU happy with any of your models you might see minor orange peel with a magnifier and bright light? 

[CabDriver]

2 hours ago, Michael jones said:

 

I dont think you need to spend a decade or more building cars to make a very nice model with shiny paint. I think you can learn the most important things quite quickly if you spend time reading/ watching youtube

 

Agreed - as long as one has the correct personality to to be able to listen to the advice, soak it in, apply it and figure out what to do if it goes wrong.  Some people don’t have that in them…

[Sandboarder]

Before you drop hundreds of dollars and hours investing in a airbrush. Go and try a can of Tamiya lacquer paint. 
 

Your obsessed with out dated products, blaming the products and then want to continue using them again. 

Read the comments because everyone is telling you really good advice and agreeing with each other so you know it’s facts. 
 

My bad that isn’t what you want to hear. I’ll go back to my Island before you decide to discriminate me because of my race or geographic location and then wish hard ship upon my children.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, CabDriver said:

Agreed - as long as one has the correct personality to to be able to listen to the advice, soak it in, apply it and figure out what to do if it goes wrong.  Some people don’t have that in them…

I agree as well.

It's very possible to be able to pick up on certain things rather quickly, but I think we would all be doing the OP a huge disservice if we were to give him the impression that getting a perfect paint job was somehow an easy task to learn.

As others here have said, it can take a lot of trial and error and experimentation to settle upon a regimen that works for you.

Simply watching a video might give you some general ideas and techniques to apply, but to expect that you're going to get great results right out of the gate is very unrealistic.

 

I think this entire kerfuffle is about "expectations".

The OP appears to some of us to be very impatient, and seems to be expecting immediate results that he's not likely to achieve, and not particularly eager to work for.

It's almost as if he's expecting this hobby, and painting in general, to be easy, and along with that, seems to be an unwillingness to listen to the great deal of experience offered, and I suppose it rubs people the wrong way when you plead for their advice and then just shrug off whatever they offer.

Granted, it's impossible to use every single piece of advice given, but when someone appears to be so short sighted as to blow off sound advice in favor of thinking that they are going to get better guidance from a failing paint company, it's understandable that it's going to make people question his sincerity about learning some actual skills.

It strikes me that like some people new to the hobby, there's not a lot of appreciation for the knowledge to be gained from the experienced.

They're looking for the shortest and easiest avenue to achieve their goal, but they don't realize that there are really no short cuts.

 

 

 

Steve

   

[StevenGuthmiller]

11 hours ago, Plumcrazy Preston said:

 

 

I just have to bring this up as well.

 

Does anyone else agree with me that this model exhibits "exactly" what you don't want in a clear coat finish?

This is a prime example of what is commonly referred to as the "dipped in paint" phenomenon.

Looks nice and shiny, but the clear coat is so thick that the paint actually builds up into "drifts" along the panel lines.

And God help he who wants to foil or paint any "buried" moldings, trim or badges.

 

In my opinion, this is a perfect example of a video "not" to follow.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Plumcrazy Preston]

45 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I just have to bring this up as well.

 

Does anyone else agree with me that this model exhibits "exactly" what you don't want in a clear coat finish?

This is a prime example of what is commonly referred to as the "dipped in paint" phenomenon.

Looks nice and shiny, but the clear coat is so thick that the paint actually builds up into "drifts" along the panel lines.

And God help he who wants to foil or paint any "buried" moldings, trim or badges.

 

In my opinion, this is a perfect example of a video "not" to follow.

 

 

 

 

Steve

How do auto painters of real cars deal with the panel line issue? 

 

Here is a panel line wash video:

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Plumcrazy Preston

[Cool Hand]

Many valid points, but its time to move along and let OP figure out some things for himself like we all have had to do.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Cool Hand

[iamsuperdan]

13 hours ago, peteski said:

 

Too funny!  You know what? You're right!  And guess what? The answer to your questions is practice, practice, practice.  Some truck parts and couple of bodies is just a beginning. If you really want to get good, you will have to "ruin" lots more models.

Just as an aside, the Eddie Van Halen comment was me. 😋

 

8 hours ago, Plumcrazy Preston said:

How do auto painters of real cars deal with the panel line issue? 

 

Umm...well panel lines are actually the gap between separate panels. See, on real cars, each body panel is a separate piece, and those are either bolted or welded to an inner structure of some kind, so the panel lines just appear naturally.

As you may have noticed, on a plastic model, everything is molded as one piece. Load too much paint and clear onto a body and you fill the panel lines, making them visible, but unrealistic.

 

You keep on comparing painting and finishing models to painting and finishing real cars. You do realize these are completely different right?

 

Anyway, this entire thread reminds me of flat earthers. You have an end result in mind, watched a few You Tube videos, and now everyone else here is wrong, because their advice isn't what you want to hear. So you ignore the advice because it doesn't fit your narrative. Despite the fact that everyone is telling you exactly how to achieve the results you want.

Looking forward to seeing your finished results, using the advice of some emailed response from Testor's.

[peteski]

18 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

Just as an aside, the Eddie Van Halen comment was me. 😋

That's ok.  It still drives in the point in that just watching a video, reading a book, or listening to someone's advice will not automatically make someone an expert.  Lots of practice while applying the learned knowledge is still required to get good at doing something.

[StevenGuthmiller]

9 hours ago, Plumcrazy Preston said:

How do auto painters of real cars deal with the panel line issue? 

 

Here is a panel line wash video:

 

“Panel lines” are the gaps between body panels, such as between the doors and the body, and the trunk lid and body.

What I’m referring to is the build up of paint along the edges of the panels when the paint has been applied too heavily.

When any paint is applied too thickly on a model body, the paint has the tendency to pool along those edges making the body appear as if the body was dipped in the paint rather than it being sprayed on.

This is one common mistake that is often made with 2K clears.

The paint is thicker by nature than other clears, so rather than drawing away from sharp edges as is often the case with other paints, 2K clear has the tendency to build up into a hump on those edges.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Plumcrazy Preston]

6 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

“Panel lines” are the gaps between body panels, such as between the doors and the body, and the trunk lid and body.

What I’m referring to is the build up of paint along the edges of the panels when the paint has been applied too heavily.

When any paint is applied too thickly on a model body, the paint has the tendency to pool along those edges making the body appear as if the body was dipped in the paint rather than it being sprayed on.

This is one common mistake that is often made with 2K clears.

The paint is thicker by nature than other clears, so rather than drawing away from sharp edges as is often the case with other paints, 2K clear has the tendency to build up into a hump on those edges.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Does Testors Glosscoat and Dullcoat (mixed with any amount of some type of thinner) draw away from those panel line seams unlike 2K? 

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, Plumcrazy Preston said:

Does Testors Glosscoat and Dullcoat (mixed with any amount of some type of thinner) draw away from those panel line seams unlike 2K? 

A typical acrylic lacquer clear will not pool as easily in these areas like 2K clear can, but it’s still possible if sprayed too heavily.

Don’t get me wrong, a lot of guys successfully use 2K clear without creating this sort of problem, but It’s a lot more commonly seen when using it.

As with any paint, you’re usually a lot better off using lighter coats rather than heavy.

If you’re set on using Testors clear, it’s going to make a difference depending on which clear you’re using.

Testors carries gloss and flat clears in lacquer spray cans and bottles, as well as water based acrylic in both gloss and flat, along with gloss enamel.

All of these have different characteristics, and without knowing exactly what product you’re using and how you plan on applying them, it’s hard to tell you what to expect.

Honestly, if you plan on using their lacquers in a spray can, you’re probably better off just spraying them right from the can than fooling around with decanting and all of that mess.

This is a perfect example of how there’s no substitute for hands on experience.

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Plumcrazy Preston]

13 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

A typical acrylic lacquer clear will not pool as easily in these areas like 2K clear can, but it’s still possible if sprayed too heavily.

Don’t get me wrong, a lot of guys successfully use 2K clear without creating this sort of problem, but It’s a lot more commonly seen when using it.

As with any paint, you’re usually a lot better off using lighter coats rather than heavy.

If you’re set on using Testors clear, it’s going to make a difference depending on which clear you’re using.

Testors carries gloss and flat clears in lacquer spray cans and bottles, as well as water based acrylic in both gloss and flat, along with gloss enamel.

All of these have different characteristics, and without knowing exactly what product you’re using and how you plan on applying them, it’s hard to tell you what to expect.

Honestly, if you plan on using their lacquers in a spray can, you’re probably better off just spraying them right from the can than fooling around with decanting and all of that mess.

This is a perfect example of how there’s no substitute for hands on experience.

 

 

 

 

Steve

I have my heart set on a new airbrush. of course, I would try to buy stuff factory-packaged for airbrush use. The Testors clear in bottles I have in mind are lacquer products. Zeropaints has lacquer clears that are "airbrush ready" with thinner already built in. These are lacquer products too. These should all be decal-safe when mist coats are properly applied to decals to protect them from wet coats to follow. I have a bunch of unpainted spare parts that are disposable from one of my kits that is already botched to experiment with before committing any new paint products to my good parts I actually want to construct a good model with.  I can use some of my spare clean parts as a test bed for both my painting skills to hone and my painting products. One might even buy cheap model at a five-and-dime store as a trial-and-error proving ground to develop painting experience. Maybe buying a plastic sign and practicing with it might be actually good for airbrush skills honing. Can I even practice on plastic picnic spoons? I still believe even a greenhorn is more likely to get much better results from a single-action time-honored proven Paasche H than any rattle can in the world. I'm willing to bet some money and gamble on Paasche. 

 

I have a bunch of spare decals to practice with too. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Plumcrazy Preston

[jchrisf]

4 hours ago, Plumcrazy Preston said:

Does Testors Glosscoat and Dullcoat (mixed with any amount of some type of thinner) draw away from those panel line seams unlike 2K? 

Watch a master my friend.  Clay uses a cheap, Chinese airbrush and spray cans.  You'll notice he shoots with the airbrush much like he shoots with the cans.  It sounds the same and looks the same... and in a follow up video he will spray on 2K.  Then he will show you how he polishes it out.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by jchrisf

[NOBLNG]

1 hour ago, Plumcrazy Preston said:

 Can I even practice on plastic picnic spoons? I still believe even a greenhorn is more likely to get much better results from a single-action time-honored proven Paasche H than any rattle can in the world.

You can practice on anything from a spoon to a plastic cup to a rock. The key to your success I believe is the practice. I love my Paasche H airbrush….but it is NOT a magic wand! There are more variables involved with ANY airbrush vs a spray bomb. Buying a good gun does not make you a good shot.

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Plumcrazy Preston said:

 I still believe even a greenhorn is more likely to get much better results from a single-action time-honored proven Paasche H than any rattle can in the world.

That’s where you would be absolutely wrong!

Some of the best paint jobs that I’ve ever seen were done with a spray can!

Even though I now use an airbrush for the color coats on about 3/4 of my builds, I still use a spray can for all of my primer and clear coats, and have used them a lot for the majority of my 50 year building career.

Honestly, I would recommend that every novice builder master a spray can before they start messing with an air brush.

I believe that you would be much better served by starting out as simple as possible.

The number one reason for people getting frustrated and exiting the hobby is biting off way more than they can chew right out of the gate, in my opinion.

Please take my advice and simplify, simplify, simplify.......at least for a while

 

 

 

Steve

Edited September 14, 2021 by StevenGuthmiller

[jchrisf]

17 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

That’s where you would be absolutely wrong!

Some of the best paint jobs that I’ve ever seen were done with a spray can!

Even though I now use an airbrush for the color coats on about 3/4 of my builds, I still use a spray can for all of my primer and clear coats, and have used them a lot for the majority of my 50 year building career.

Honestly, I would recommend that every novice builder master a spray can before they start messing with an air brush.

I believe that you would be much better served by starting out as simple as possible.

The number one reason for people getting frustrated and exiting the hobby is biting off way more than they can chew right out of the gate, in my opinion.

Please take my advice and simplify, simplify, simplify.......at least for a while

 

 

 

Steve

Steve, what clear do you use?

[Fantom]

My suggestion would be to get the airbrush, and learn to paint with it using flat paints. Use it for interiors and mechanical parts etc. Get a feel for it there first before trying to shoot a glossy body. Modern rattle cans are wonderful, Tamiya sprays and hard to mess up if you use light coats and take the time to prep.I didn’t see anyone mention primer, but that’s an important step as well.  And decals….that’s a while ‘nother world lol. Models with lots of decals or even a couple large decals can be very difficult to get right. Solvents help but, technique is king.  Practice is key, I wish I had a dollar for ever kit that never got finished because I ruined it in the early days of my modeling.

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 minutes ago, jchrisf said:

Steve, what clear do you use?

I use Duplicolor “Perfect Match” straight out of the can, and then polish.

I use exclusively automotive acrylic lacquers for my painting.

 

 

Steve

[Rodent]

8 hours ago, peteski said:

That's ok.  It still drives in the point in that just watching a video, reading a book, or listening to someone's advice will not automatically make someone an expert.  Lots of practice while applying the learned knowledge is still required to get good at doing something.

We just started watching the new American Horror Story "Double Feature". It plays into this with a "pill" that makes you absolutely brilliant at whatever you are trying to do instantly, but it has nasty side effects.

[tbill]

Just for clarification, these were painted with testors model master lacquer spray cans, colors and clear coat, nice results are possible with these paints. Of note , the green snap pete was built in less than 24 hours during the Daytona 24 hour race.

 

P.S. I only use rattle cans, took quite a few paint jobs to get them looking good, I have several models I’ve painted up to 3 times before I got it right, master the spray bomb first .

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by tbill
Added text

[Plumcrazy Preston]

5 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

You can practice on anything from a spoon to a plastic cup to a rock. The key to your success I believe is the practice. I love my Paasche H airbrush….but it is NOT a magic wand! There are more variables involved with ANY airbrush vs a spray bomb. Buying a good gun does not make you a good shot.

I'm good at reading and following instructions and I gather The Most Hallowed Paasche H will come with a good manual. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Plumcrazy Preston

[iamsuperdan]

Well then I guess we're all done here then right? You'll buy the expensive airbrush, read the manual, watch some You Tube videos, and you'll be doing show quality paint jobs right off the bat. 

Can't wait to see them!

 

I wonder why you seem so hesitant to listen to advice (which you asked for) from experts. At the very least, give some of the tips in this thread a try.

[Plumcrazy Preston]

4 hours ago, Fantom said:

My suggestion would be to get the airbrush, and learn to paint with it using flat paints. Use it for interiors and mechanical parts etc. Get a feel for it there first before trying to shoot a glossy body. Modern rattle cans are wonderful, Tamiya sprays and hard to mess up if you use light coats and take the time to prep. I didn’t see anyone mention primer, but that’s an important step as well.  And decals….that’s a while ‘nother world lol. Models with lots of decals or even a couple large decals can be very difficult to get right. Solvents help but, technique is king.  Practice is key, I wish I had a dollar for ever kit that never got finished because I ruined it in the early days of my modeling.

 

Andy X doesn't even use primer in his modified Donn Yost technique. The Testors enamel and the lacquer thinner in the mix should chemically bite into model kit plastic quite readily. I would still lightly scuff the bare plastic with fine 5000-grit sandpaper before turning the paint gun on it. 

 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Plumcrazy Preston said:

I'm good at reading and following instructions and I gather The Most Hallowed Paasche H will come with a good manual. 

C-mon David.

You can't be serious.

You have to know what the manual is going to tell you, right?

It's going to give you a few technical instructions on how to adjust and clean the equipment, but it's going to give you about as much information on how to create a nice paint job on a model car as the representative from Testors is going to give you.

Seriously, you need to stop being so unenlightened about the magnitude of guidance that you're going to get from sources such as these.

You're only hope for gaining any true wisdom on this topic is from the people that you'll find on forums such as this one.

You're currently conversing with some of the hobbies most highly competent individuals on this board, and if you're not going to take instruction from them, you're going to end up completely on your own, relying on dubious information from unreliable, and untrustworthy sources.

You really need to be a little less flippant in your attitude towards the literally hundreds of years worth of immense talent that is available for you to study in this forum.

 

 

 

 

Steve