An in-depth look at all the parts of a test shot of the upcoming Moebius 1965 Chevy II Gasser....

[Chuck Kourouklis]

18 hours ago, Cool Hand said:

    All hail !! the righteous ones have spoken  

Yeah, you're right. Even as I remind myself of all that doesn't rise above the lizard brain around here, just like politics, somehow I just can't stop myself entirely from tilting against the windmill, which essentially renders me just as idiotic as anyone else.

F T F Y on "one's", btw. 

SO. Numbers. This is what I did to make a sedan out of Revell's '50 Olds coupe, and those of you who've seen it are invited to draw your own conclusions how it compares against the resin and other conversions of same that you might have seen.

You find pictures online as close to dead profile as you can. You pick two measurements to establish a proportion - in the case of the Nova, the front DLO, height by bottom edge length. 

Camera angle, focus length, lens distortion, bla bla bla. YES, which is why you don't establish the ratio with one picture, you take a mean over SEVERAL. And when .32, height to length, dominates with little variation across those several pictures, you can take that to be fairly reliable.

On the model, that ratio is more like .28 to one. Mathematically, that puts the drip molding a little more than 10% too low. Which is about the way it looks.

Is photo comparison sooooooo unreliable? There's my forecast. Guess we'll see when it's released.

One thing I won't do is call this a lazy effort, though. The thing has great guts, so I'm in probably for two.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Chuck Kourouklis
Inevitable device typo

[Terry Jessee]

Webster's definition goes like this: "the members of a usually political or social movement espousing extreme, eccentric, or fanatical views."

"Lunatic fringe" really does describe a bunch of people getting their panties in a knot over something as really trivial as a model kit, especially given the state of world right now. I know I was unhappy with Revell's '62 Chevy (as were a lot of people). I just took on myself to see what I could do to fix it to suit me.

It's a hobby.

As for the knuckleheads who are casting aspersions on Tim Boyd's integrity (Tim Boyd! Really????), I'd ask just how much any of you has contributed to this hobby? I've never heard of most of the names I've seen in this thread. So it can't be a lot.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[bobthehobbyguy]

So right Terry. Tim has done a lot for the hobby.

His intention was to provide a complete overview of the gasser kit. Too often one problem with a kit will drown out all of the positive aspects of a given kit. All he asked us was to wait to the end of his presentation was complete. We all know how that went. Instead some took it as a way to question his motives.

Second insulting the model companies does not help our cause.

Every project has a budget, and each phase has a part of that budget. No company will survive if those budgets are exceded. With the current market those budgets are a lot tighter these days. Ultimately we have to decide which kits we want to buy and build. But it ie not our place to chastise others for what that choice is. 

[Stef]

Thank you, @tim boyd, Moebius, and EVERYONE, for your comments, insights, thoughts, ideas, suggestions, comparisons, observations, and GRIT with this kit review.

I've never experienced such a detailed and thoughtful community review of an upcoming model kit before.

I love it, and look forward to more more more.

While I didn't mind the roof before, it's really growing on me. It's very Mad Max, and I can't wait to get one of these, as well as the Falcon in the new Cal Drag Combo, and the upcoming Henry J.

I'M IN GASSER HEAVEN.

[Cool Hand]

10 hours ago, Chuck Kourouklis said:

F T F Y on "one's", btw. 

Oh no ! it's the grammar     

Please for forgive me, I've gone back and done and an edit to F T F Y.

[Snake45]

21 hours ago, tim boyd said:

Thanks Dave for  the reset.  

As I said earlier, I wanted to hold off responding to some of the questions asked by readers of this thread, until I had shown the finished model. 

Now that I have done so, I have posted the "Upon Reflection" photos and commentary at my Fotki site at this link.

In it I attempt to address some of the requests you've made, I show how I propose to address what I see is the biggest issue contributing to an impression of a chopped appearance to the greenhouse, and I provide some comments about how I plan to build a second, mildly kitbashed version of the Moebius Gasser when it becomes available for sale early in 2022. 

You will probably find the info herein a bit surprising in some ways, it certainly was to me.  l doubt it will substantially change some of the previously voiced impressions, but at least you now have this info to add to your takeaway from this online preview of the upcoming kit.   Thanks for following along with this thread, and see you all on the tabletops.  

Best...TIM  

 

I think Tim is onto something here. I'm gonna give that a try. The AMT '67-'68 Camaro body has a very similar problem, and filing away the incorrect window sill trim molding completely changes the look of that model. 

Meanwhile, I've been studying the difference between the '65 and pre-'65 2DS roofs. (Why Chevy made this change is a mystery. Do away with the curved backlight and go to a cheaper, flatter unit, maybe?) It looks to me like the backlight area can be opened up to achieve the '62-'64 roof shape. Filling the new area with glass might pose a problem, but here's some minor good news: On the George Klass site, I found quite a few pics of '62-'64 Nova 2DS racers in the FX section running without any backlight at all installed! 

http://www.georgeklass.net/uploads/3/4/5/1/34518983/09_229_orig.jpg

http://www.georgeklass.net/uploads/3/4/5/1/34518983/09_231_orig.jpg

http://www.georgeklass.net/uploads/3/4/5/1/34518983/published/9194069.jpg?1516472423

http://www.georgeklass.net/uploads/3/4/5/1/34518983/09_236_orig.jpg

http://www.georgeklass.net/uploads/3/4/5/1/34518983/09_239_orig.jpg

http://www.georgeklass.net/uploads/3/4/5/1/34518983/published/9185201.jpg?1516471620

 

[Classicgas]

17 hours ago, GMP440 said:

Just throwing this out there;  about two years ago Salvinos showed us on their FB site the 3D renderings of the 72 and 73 Charger stock car bodies.  Very favorable comments came out of that in reference to the accuracy of the bodies.  Had Moebius did the same thing  , showing the 3D renderings of the Chevy ll body to us so we can comment on it ; could that resulted in a more correct body being produced? 

They did. Very early on and there was MUCH discussion on the errors then.

[Chuck Kourouklis]

4 hours ago, Cool Hand said:

Oh no ! it's the grammar     

Please for forgive me, I've gone back and done and an edit to F T F Y.

Well y'know, take a dig, maybe watch you don't have any easy marks yourself? I ain't TELLIN' ya now, I'm just sayin'.

You didn't spell it "grammer", so there's that. 😎

[Xingu]

I will take this opportunity to remind everyone to be courteous of others and to go back and read the forum rules. There are right and wrong ways to voice your concerns or criticisms. The right way leads to constructive discussion and civil discourse. The wrong way leads arguments and lines drawn in the sand. Too often these discussions become "Us vs. Them" because people want to keep reiterating their view over and over when stating it once is enough. Just take a step back and think about what you are posting. Try to look at all sides of the discussion. Realize that yours isn't the only voice and that you don't have to respond to every post that goes against what you think or feel. We complain that model companies never issue new kits and then we complain when they do. What kind of message does that send to the companies?

It is never OK to bash or abuse another member here. Going to go back and reread this entire thread to see if any others need to be issued warning points or given a timeout. I will probably remove a lot of the posts as well which is something we really do not like doing.

[Plowboy]

The roof still looks chopped to me. The proposed "fix" (why does it need to be fixed if there's nothing wrong with it?) won't work either. The full scale car has that lip at the bottom of the DLO. Removing the lip would put the bottom of the DLO on a different plane than the vent glass. If you also removed the lip at the bottom of the vent glass, all of the DLO would be on a different plane than the bottom of the windshield. The top may "appear" taller. But, it won't be. Why not just admit that the top is chopped and be done with it? It's gonna come out when it hits the market anyway because the first thing someone will do is grab the body and a set of calipers to measure the DLO. Tim could provide that simple measurement now if he would do so.

  

[bobthehobbyguy]

3 hours ago, Snake45 said:

I think Tim is onto something here. I'm gonna give that a try. The AMT '67-'68 Camaro body has a very similar problem, and filing away the incorrect window sill trim molding completely changes the look of that model. 

 

So right Snake. Sometimes we have to adapt and improvise. Although not an ideal solution it seems like a quick way to improve the top's appearance. 

[tim boyd]

3 hours ago, Plowboy said:

The roof still looks chopped to me. The proposed "fix" (why does it need to be fixed if there's nothing wrong with it?) won't work either. The full scale car has that lip at the bottom of the DLO. Removing the lip would put the bottom of the DLO on a different plane than the vent glass. If you also removed the lip at the bottom of the vent glass, all of the DLO would be on a different plane than the bottom of the windshield. The top may "appear" taller. But, it won't be. Why not just admit that the top is chopped and be done with it? It's gonna come out when it hits the market anyway because the first thing someone will do is grab the body and a set of calipers to measure the DLO. Tim could provide that simple measurement now if he would do so.

  

Roger....please, sir, take a look at the images and captions at the link I provided above and here if you have not already done so.  I did provide measurements and comparisons to the AMT Nova as well.   

My suggestion was an attempt to address the single biggest visual element that I think is leading to the widespread view of a chopped appearance; this is not a 100% perfect answer but is relatively easy to do.  The real two door sedan car appears to have little to no visible molding above the door sheet metal (fwiw, neither does the AMT Nova wagon), but there is a step down in the DLO behind the door vent window, which my proposed fix also corrects vs. the unaltered Moebius body.  Ultimately, we won't really know if my proposed fix really works until the kit comes out and I/we can try it ourselves. 

At this point, and based on the visual evidence I provided at the link, I don't personally believe the top is chopped, but I am sure when the kit comes out, there will be many who address this issue, do more measuring as you advocate, and provide their view.  Maybe out of that will eventually evolve some sort of ultimate consensus in the modeling community on the subject...TIM 

Edited October 3, 2021 by tim boyd

[bobthehobbyguy]

Tim. Just curious would taking material off  the top of the doors be another solution.  That obviously would be more involved. Looking forward to these new kits.

Tim will there be a chance for you to do this review on the other stock version. 

[Classicgas]

Interesting  comparison Tim.

[Plowboy]

1 hour ago, tim boyd said:

Roger....please, sir, take a look at the images and captions at the link I provided above and here if you have not already done so.  I did provide measurements and comparisons to the AMT Nova as well.   

 

I did. But, I went back and looked again. You didn't give the actual measurement. You held the ruler below the opening on the Moebius Nova. You held it on top of the lip on the AMT Nova wagon. Measure the actual opening with a set of digital calipers like so.

One way to settle this issue once and for all. Take digital calipers and measure from the bottom of the rockers to the top of the roof on both models. Then from the bottom of the rockers to the bottom of the DLO. They'll be no denying it one way or the other. No one can dispute actual measurements.

[tim boyd]

2 hours ago, Plowboy said:

I did. But, I went back and looked again. You didn't give the actual measurement. You held the ruler below the opening on the Moebius Nova. You held it on top of the lip on the AMT Nova wagon. Measure the actual opening with a set of digital calipers like so.

One way to settle this issue once and for all. Take digital calipers and measure from the bottom of the rockers to the top of the roof on both models. Then from the bottom of the rockers to the bottom of the DLO. They'll be no denying it one way or the other. No one can dispute actual measurements.

Roger, please look again.  The exact measurement between the top of the door panel/bottom of the DLO to the top of the DLO was exactly 8/16" for both models, if you measure taking into account my plan to remove the incorrect trim engraved on top of the Moebius door panel.  The ruler didn't line up exactly the same between both models in the picture showing both, so you have to use the 1/2 mark on top and bottom of the Moebius, but the same net total measurement is 8/16" for both models after the adjustment I am proposing.  I do not have a set of digital calipers, so that measurement will have to await someone else's efforts when the kit is finally released.    

[Xingu]

4 hours ago, tim boyd said:

Maybe out of that will eventually evolve some sort of ultimate consensus in the modeling community on the subject...TIM 

This made me chuckle. It is impossible to please everyone, especially modelers.

[tim boyd]

Team...at this point I am going to wrap up my involvement in this thread.   I think everyone's mind about the body is pretty made up and there isn't much left that will change a person's view one way or the other on that subject.  I would hope we could generally agree that the rest of the kit is really well done, except for the blower top hat, but even that may be a bit presumptuous on my part.

I was really excited to share a preview of this kit with the model car hobby as I thought (and still do) it was one of, if not the finest, 1960's style gasser kit ever to come on the market.  The last thing I ever dreamed was that this thread would become a spirited debate focused mostly about the accuracy of the body.  I also tried to share what I learned from 11 years working alongside some of the best automotive design executives in the industry about how  photography and minor changes to design elements such as DLO's can make a big change in the perception of a car's appearance.  Maybe that was too much or inappropriate for a thread on model cars.  

If the opportunity ever presents itself in the future for me to do another test shot preview like this one, I will discuss with the Forum moderators beforehand and see if we can come up with a better way to go forward in presenting the information and responding to questions without the antagonism that seems to have surfaced this time.

Thanks for your attention, over and out.  TIM 

Edited October 3, 2021 by tim boyd