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2022 Round2 Releases


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12 minutes ago, GMP440 said:

To get back on topic.  How cost effective is for Round 2 take a kit, from their archives in which the tooling is not there and use 3D printing to do new tooling?  Subjects such as the 68 or 69 Bonneville, 71 Dodge Demon, 68 or 69 C-10 truck where the tooling is no longer there could be done this way.

They will apparently find out with the first complete example (Nova wagon) and partial examples ('64 Cutlasses).

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5 hours ago, GMP440 said:

To get back on topic.  How cost effective is for Round 2 take a kit, from their archives in which the tooling is not there and use 3D printing to do new tooling?  Subjects such as the 68 or 69 Bonneville, 71 Dodge Demon, 68 or 69 C-10 truck where the tooling is no longer there could be done this way.

Are you talking about 3D Scanning, as is what was done with the 4070A and an original was used to formulate the new tooling? Because 3D printing doesn't have much usefulness beyond creating a rapid prototype that you can use to "fact check" the tooling before you actual start cutting the steel.  

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14 hours ago, GMP440 said:

To get back on topic.  How cost effective is for Round 2 take a kit, from their archives in which the tooling is not there and use 3D printing to do new tooling?  Subjects such as the 68 or 69 Bonneville, 71 Dodge Demon, 68 or 69 C-10 truck where the tooling is no longer there could be done this way.

Well, it seems to have worked with 63 Nova Wagon.

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On 10/24/2021 at 6:03 PM, GMP440 said:

To get back on topic.  How cost effective is for Round 2 take a kit, from their archives in which the tooling is not there and use 3D printing to do new tooling?  Subjects such as the 68 or 69 Bonneville, 71 Dodge Demon, 68 or 69 C-10 truck where the tooling is no longer there could be done this way.

These molds were once made long before the technology we have today and someone could make them again. I have no idea at what it might cost to do so but it's definitely doable. The 71 demon would be a huge seller and some others as well. I guess it's looked at as bang for your buck , cheaper to change boxart and add decals instead of a whole new tool.

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34 minutes ago, Scott8950 said:

These molds were once made long before the technology we have today and someone could make them again. I have no idea at what it might cost to do so but it's definitely doable. The 71 demon would be a huge seller and some others as well. I guess it's looked at as bang for your buck , cheaper to change boxart and add decals instead of a whole new tool.

On the subject of the '71 Dodge Demon, you have to imagine that Round 2 has probably observed the sales of the Full Bumper '70 Camaro quite closely to determine if a more ambitious conversion like Duster to Demon was financially sound. 

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4 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

On the subject of the '71 Dodge Demon, you have to imagine that Round 2 has probably observed the sales of the Full Bumper '70 Camaro quite closely to determine if a more ambitious conversion like Duster to Demon was financially sound. 

To do it right, they have to fix the front fenders first....

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On 10/24/2021 at 11:48 PM, niteowl7710 said:

Are you talking about 3D Scanning, as is what was done with the 4070A and an original was used to formulate the new tooling? Because 3D printing doesn't have much usefulness beyond creating a rapid prototype that you can use to "fact check" the tooling before you actual start cutting the steel.  

High-volume injection mold tooling can be produced using DMLS (Direct Metal Laser Sintering).

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IF Round 2 were to do a new '71 Demon kit, it would likely involve new parts (body, etc) for the existing Duster kit.  The original MPC kit was flawed; besides the incorrect front wheel openings, the hood is WAY too flat.  It looks as though it is sagging in the center.  That is owing to only the upper surface of the hood being unique tooling: it had to be made that way to fit with the underside of the (then) existing Duster hood tooling.

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5 hours ago, steveracer said:

To do it right, they have to fix the front fenders first....

Right, wrong, or somewhere in between, first the sales numbers for the full-bumper '70 Camaro have to tell Round 2 that the much more laborious tool modifications to convert the AMT/Ertl '71 Duster into a '71 Dodge Demon (because resurrecting the known-to-be inaccurate AND primitive MPC kit is a fool's errand) make financial sense. 

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If Round2 were to create either a new body or backdate the existing 1975-1976 Dart Sport body and fix any inaccuracies of the original 1971 Demon , I would hope -and certainly I'm not alone in this- that they would also create the 1972 grille for it . Yes , I realise that the 1972 has more than just a grille change ( upholstery -same as the 1972 Duster- pattern is different ; side markers are different ; and dashboard is different -the existing dash is correct for all 1972-1976 Dart , Duster , et al.--- the Tuff-Grip wheel is *technically* incorrect , as it was only available with mandatory power steering , which is a minor point ) .

At a minimum , the 1972 grille could be used for a Modified Production or Stock or Super Stock build . 

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Seven pages of conversation here and nobody’s talking about the 71 Monte Carlo super stocker. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge Monte Carlo fan! But I think AMT is missing the mark here. It’s not a very desirable kit as far as I know. I think they would be better off updating the current 70 Monte Carlo into a 71 or 72. Would be a big hit with musclecar fans and Lowrider fans.

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5 minutes ago, Superbird McMonte said:

Seven pages of conversation here and nobody’s talking about the 71 Monte Carlo super stocker.  

Nothing to talk about, it's been reissued a couple times in the last 15 years...once by Model King and once by Round 2 IIRC...I assume this is the same ol', same ol' w/ new box art and decals...

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6 minutes ago, Superbird McMonte said:

Seven pages of conversation here and nobody’s talking about the 71 Monte Carlo super stocker. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge Monte Carlo fan! But I think AMT is missing the mark here. It’s not a very desirable kit as far as I know. I think they would be better off updating the current 70 Monte Carlo into a 71 or 72. Would be a big hit with musclecar fans and Lowrider fans.

That kit is intact and needs no tooling work......so a cheap and easy reissue. 

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18 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

Nothing to talk about, it's been reissued a couple times in the last 15 years...once by Model King and once by Round 2 IIRC...I assume this is the same ol', same ol' w/ new box art and decals...

That’s exactly my point. I think my local hobby shop still has them sitting on the shelf from the last time it was reissued…🤷🏻 

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Prolly off topic, but updating existing kits would be a plus in my book. 63 and 64 Impalas/Galaxies with a detailed chassis and interior? Would that not involve just tooling up interior pieces since the floor frame and firewall are available from the 62 Impala and 61 Starliner? Same for the 66 Mustang and 68 Shelby among others.

My 2 cents

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On 10/26/2021 at 10:37 AM, SfanGoch said:

High-volume injection mold tooling can be produced using DMLS (Direct Metal Laser Sintering).

Granted but plastic model kits aren't high-volume anymore.  I bet some of these newer tools (say post 2008) out there haven't even seen 50k cycles. 3D printing as it's used now in the industry is for making rapid prototypes of what the tooling will spit out prior to committing to making a single nick on the metal.  Even then it's not necessarily a technique that most American companies took advantage of until very recently.

 

12 minutes ago, Sledsel said:

Prolly off topic, but updating existing kits would be a plus in my book. 63 and 64 Impalas/Galaxies with a detailed chassis and interior? Would that not involve just tooling up interior pieces since the floor frame and firewall are available from the 62 Impala and 61 Starliner? Same for the 66 Mustang and 68 Shelby among others.

My 2 cents

But older tooling isn't modular, and that's pretty much every single thing AMT ever made up until they were sold off in the 90s.  None of those tools were done with CAD, or designed to be run piece meal, so to create what you want you'd have to run two entire kits, along with the new interiors to get one model kit.  

 

21 hours ago, Justin Porter said:

Right, wrong, or somewhere in between, first the sales numbers for the full-bumper '70 Camaro have to tell Round 2 that the much more laborious tool modifications to convert the AMT/Ertl '71 Duster into a '71 Dodge Demon (because resurrecting the known-to-be inaccurate AND primitive MPC kit is a fool's errand) make financial sense. 

But Round2 didn't have to do much tooling modification to make the full bumper Camaro.  That tooling was always designed with a separate core piece in the front fascia, but the Ertl AMT never lasted long enough to make get around to making that variant of the kit.  The problems with that "re-tool" came up when they 3D scanned a full bumper Camaro and found out the Z/28 tooling wasn't level side to side and they had to tweak it "wrong" to make it look right.  I'm not sure there's a way to make a Demon out of the Duster without destroying the Duster in the process unless you're talking about creating entirely new body & interior tooling to drop on the Duster chassis.  I also wonder how well that Demon would actually sell. I know it's unobtanium and that makes it seem like there's a demand - but that demand is for a wildly cheaper version to buy than an original.  I'm not sure a few guys on a forum and one dedicated champion for it on the Round2 videos translates into the sales needed to basically tool up 75% of a new kit.  I think the Nova Wagon, two Olds kits, and the Garbage Truck are better comparisons in terms of sales vs. investment in terms of making a Demon a reality.  I would expect making a new "old" '68/'69 (especially if they can figure out a way to engineer it to produce both the way Revell did with the two new Chevelle kits of the same years) Coronet would sell vast quantities more units than an A Body not quite performance car.

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1 hour ago, niteowl7710 said:

Granted but plastic model kits aren't high-volume anymore.  I bet some of these newer tools (say post 2008) out there haven't even seen 50k cycles. 3D printing as it's used now in the industry is for making rapid prototypes of what the tooling will spit out prior to committing to making a single nick on the metal.  Even then it's not necessarily a technique that most American companies took advantage of until very recently.

 

But older tooling isn't modular, and that's pretty much every single thing AMT ever made up until they were sold off in the 90s.  None of those tools were done with CAD, or designed to be run piece meal, so to create what you want you'd have to run two entire kits, along with the new interiors to get one model kit.  

 

But Round2 didn't have to do much tooling modification to make the full bumper Camaro.  That tooling was always designed with a separate core piece in the front fascia, but the Ertl AMT never lasted long enough to make get around to making that variant of the kit.  The problems with that "re-tool" came up when they 3D scanned a full bumper Camaro and found out the Z/28 tooling wasn't level side to side and they had to tweak it "wrong" to make it look right.  I'm not sure there's a way to make a Demon out of the Duster without destroying the Duster in the process unless you're talking about creating entirely new body & interior tooling to drop on the Duster chassis.  I also wonder how well that Demon would actually sell. I know it's unobtanium and that makes it seem like there's a demand - but that demand is for a wildly cheaper version to buy than an original.  I'm not sure a few guys on a forum and one dedicated champion for it on the Round2 videos translates into the sales needed to basically tool up 75% of a new kit.  I think the Nova Wagon, two Olds kits, and the Garbage Truck are better comparisons in terms of sales vs. investment in terms of making a Demon a reality.  I would expect making a new "old" '68/'69 (especially if they can figure out a way to engineer it to produce both the way Revell did with the two new Chevelle kits of the same years) Coronet would sell vast quantities more units than an A Body not quite performance car.

I doubt a lot of Hobby Lobby customers have even heard of a Dodge Demon. It's a business and they have to produce what (hopefully) the bean counters assume will sell. 

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1 hour ago, Rbray47 said:

I doubt a lot of Hobby Lobby customers have even heard of a Dodge Demon. It's a business and they have to produce what (hopefully) the bean counters assume will sell. 

I'm thinking they could compare to 71 duster sales for an ideal of sales.

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