Paint-How much is enough??

[Dave G.]

18 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

My intention when I started this thread was (and is) to get more entertainment value out of it than anything else and so far it hasn't failed.  

A mention about my current paint job (as described in my current WIP Turbo Coupe).  Createx Autoborne black sealer, Createx Airbrush Opaque black topcoat. First time I used the Autoborne and I was very impressed. It covered quickly and super smooth with just a few coats. The topcoat went on just as smooth as the sealer. I have been using the Rusto Crystal Clear over Createx and even after drying time of the topcoat in excess of a few days the paint checked. So, no way was I gonna gamble with the same results and since the only other clear product I have on hand is a bottle of the original Future (not the new Pledge stuff). It's been a really long time since I last used this stuff.  I sprayed a couple light coats then started laying it on a bit. Between heavier coats after a few minutes of drying time I hit it with the hair dryer on medium speed, cool temp.  The shine is awesome, but like "Peteski" mentioned, it does kinda looks like it's been "dripped in honey" which of course, a factory paint job would not look like.   

My take on this is, different paints have different requirements and the process if more of an individual choice than anything else.  I guess you can say,  it's whatever works for you!!

And if anyone can give me some advise in finishing off the Future please chime in.

 

 

My experience with Future/Pledge is stop short of that full 5th coat or so that gives the gloss without buffing. So 3-4 then buff up the shine when fully dried and you should/may get closer to a factory looking shine and away from that dipped look. I'd try that in a test shoot and see what you think. And that's not wet sanded just tooth paste and scratch out polishing, so I don't burn through that way. Or haven't yet. Some guys brush it and get great results. It's never floated my boat personally though, they must have better brushing skills than me, which is probably quite true.

Once again though I can't give a real authoritative answer because I've never shot Createx as base color. So test ! If I wanted a high gloss factory black finish in 2021 I'd use Tamiya X-1 thinned 1-1 with DNA. 5-6 coats then heat set in the dehydrator. Very little polishing, no clear coat. And it's not too much paint, though the first 2-3 coats look rather dismal in the gloss department, they are smooth as silk. The 4th and especially 5th bring up the shine and heat setting for 30 minutes or so at 110f kicks it off nicely. Yep, that's my story in my black search since MM Classic Black went off the shelves. Prior to that MM for me was the no brainer route. Truth be known I still haven't found a true mach to that Classic black for the old era cars I like to build, the X-1 is close with DNA, too jet black with lacquer thinner.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Dave G.

[TransAmMike]

13 hours ago, carbuilder1950 said:

@TransAmMike

Yeah, that's one of the love/hate parts of model building, is those times we continue to struggle until we finally get things right.

I haven't stripped a bad paint job of mine for a long time, but it took me an equally long time to get there.

Painting is definetly not plug -n-play, but I love the challenge presented to get it right, by everything done in the past brought to mind, and checking to see if I have done everything my best again, before I begin - And then I just go for it full steam ahead with no doubts, because I prayed first - ALWAYS.

Thanks for your input David. I checked out your thread with a few of your builds and you sure did nail those paint jobs. Love the '55.👍

[TransAmMike]

3 hours ago, Dave G. said:

My experience with Future/Pledge is stop short of that full 5th coat or so that gives the gloss without buffing. So 3-4 then buff up the shine when fully dried and you should/may get closer to a factory looking shine and away from that dipped look. I'd try that in a test shoot and see what you think. And that's not wet sanded just tooth paste and scratch out polishing, so I don't burn through that way. Or haven't yet. Some guys brush it and get great results. It's never floated my boat personally though, they must have better brushing skills than me, which is probably quite true.

Once again though I can't give a real authoritative answer because I've never shot Createx as base color. So test ! If I wanted a high gloss factory black finish in 2021 I'd use Tamiya X-1 thinned 1-1 with DNA. 5-6 coats then heat set in the dehydrator. Very little polishing, no clear coat. And it's not too much paint, though the first 2-3 coats look rather dismal in the gloss department, they are smooth as silk. The 4th and especially 5th bring up the shine and heat setting for 30 minutes or so at 110f kicks it off nicely. Yep, that's my story in my black search since MM Classic Black went off the shelves. Prior to that MM for me was the no brainer route. Truth be known I still haven't found a true mach to that Classic black for the old era cars I like to build, the X-1 is close with DNA, too jet black with lacquer thinner.

Hey there Dave .  I always appreciate your input. I really need to get some very tiny I'm guessing dust or bubble spots out. What's interesting is the more the Future dried out the more visable they are. I did'nt see it when the base coat fully cured so it has to be in the Future. I definately don't want to mess it up.

[carbuilder1950]

2 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Thanks for your input David. I checked out your thread with a few of your builds and you sure did nail those paint jobs. Love the '55.👍

@TransAmMike

Thank you Mike. I have never tried Future so I have no advise for you, but would sure help if I could. Maybe what I share below will help.

What I've learned from being on several forums and being in several clubs, as well as talking to guys at model car shows (Contests), is that everyone I talked to has their own way of getting the paint finish they are most satisfied with, and it took them all a long time to get the perfect system of painting, they were pleased with.

I got tired of my paint finishes not being up to my standard, so I quit building for quite some time and just did nothing but paint scraps of plastic and spare body parts for months, until I found something that seemed to work, and then just kept after that until it was really easy to get the finish I wanted, over and over again, repeatedly.

That was time well spent, as it was the final piece of the puzzle to accomplish the level of building I wanted to reach.

You go to a contest, and paint is the first thing that gets people's attention, or they just walk past, the cars going un-noticed.

I hope what I shared here helps you and anyone else struggling to get that perfect paint finish they are happy with.

All the best my friend - Dave

[TransAmMike]

Thanks again Dave.👌

[Dave G.]

In spraying Pledge/Future I don't recall ever getting bubbles. So guess I'm not much help either.

With lacquer and with X-22 if there is dust I scuff it out and add another coat or two.

[SfanGoch]

I've experienced the same problem on model aircraft. The only cause for bubbles forming after spraying Future/Pledge/Whateverthehellitscallednow is the floor finish applied and subsequently drying on minute dust particles. It's best to wipe the surface with a lint-free cloth prior to use.

[TransAmMike]

3 hours ago, Dave G. said:

In spraying Pledge/Future I don't recall ever getting bubbles. So guess I'm not much help either.

With lacquer and with X-22 if there is dust I scuff it out and add another coat or two.

Maybe not actually bubbles but probably minute dust. I went ahead to tried smoothing the spots with liquid polishing compound but no luck. Maybe it was in the paint but I really don't think so.

Anyway, I had a small finger print impression on top of one rear fender and after failing to get it out with just polish I went to to compound and burned thru the Future. I just can't win.

[TransAmMike]

2 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

I've experienced the same problem on model aircraft. The only cause for bubbles forming after spraying Future/Pledge/Whateverthehellitscallednow is the floor finish applied and subsequently drying on minute dust particles. It's best to wipe the surface with a lint-free cloth prior to use.

Yep, should have used maybe a tack cloth. I did brush it down with a soft paint brush tho. Heck, maybe that's actually how the dust got on.

Edited November 8, 2021 by TransAmMike

[TransAmMike]

As for using the Future, in the future (no pun intended) I should use a clear that will accept more aggressive finishing but it has to work with acrylics.

[SfanGoch]

Just my opinion from using it, water-based clear urethane is recommended. No need for a final heavy coat. Spraying multiple light coats works with no orange peeling or puddling around scripts or other details.

[TransAmMike]

41 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

Just my opinion from using it, water-based clear urethane is recommended. No need for a final heavy coat. Spraying multiple light coats works with no orange peeling or puddling around scripts or other details.

So what product is water-based urethane. I actually thought Future is urethane. Am I wrong?

[SfanGoch]

Check your inbox.

[TransAmMike]

10 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

Check your inbox.

Oh, I missed that. Waaaaaay outta my price range.

[TransAmMike]

I just wanted to take a minute to thank everyone for the responses.  A lot of great comments and suggestions and advise.. I clearly need to zero in on a system and practice.  You would think after a few years and by my count 22 completed builds and 2 more in progress I'd have it right.  

Thanks again my Friends!!

[Dave G.]

3 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

I just wanted to take a minute to thank everyone for the responses.  A lot of great comments and suggestions and advise.. I clearly need to zero in on a system and practice.  You would think after a few years and by my count 22 completed builds and 2 more in progress I'd have it right.  

Thanks again my Friends!!

Thats a good start. If you stuck with enamel all this time you might have it nailed down by now lol. 22 models later with enamel you're bound to get decent at it. Yes I know you don't like the smell. And yes I also use acrylics but also enamel. Just not much of a fan of hot lacquer color coat for modeling.

But listen, I been spray painting for over 60 years, 1/1 fleet and automotive for 35, airbrushing for nearly 50 and I still can throw a wrench in the works !

[TransAmMike]

21 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

Thats a good start. If you stuck with enamel all this time you might have it nailed down by now lol. 22 models later with enamel you're bound to get decent at it. Yes I know you don't like the smell. And yes I also use acrylics but also enamel. Just not much of a fan of hot lacquer color coat for modeling.

But listen, I been spray painting for over 60 years, 1/1 fleet and automotive for 35, airbrushing for nearly 50 and I still can throw a wrench in the works !

Well Dave that sure is a long time. Yep, you are correct sir, I likely would be better off with enamels and when I first started it is what I used, but Rusto or Krylon spray cans and actually got pretty good results.... and no clear. I'm determined to go the acrylic route. I really think the final finishing after the base coat before clearing is where I have got to do better. And then of course, using a clear that I can perfect. 

Thanks again Dave. You are always helpful. 

[Dave G.]

14 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Well Dave that sure is a long time. Yep, you are correct sir, I likely would be better off with enamels and when I first started it is what I used, but Rusto or Krylon spray cans and actually got pretty good results.... and no clear. I'm determined to go the acrylic route. I really think the final finishing after the base coat before clearing is where I have got to do better. And then of course, using a clear that I can perfect. 

Thanks again Dave. You are always helpful. 

All you need is a thin but evenly covered base color coat if you're clearing it anyway. Course you need enough paint so the color is right too but Createx probably does that part pretty well.

I bet Liquitex varnish would do well over Createx . I keep that stuff here and use it here and there but no Createx so I can't really conduct an experiment for ya. And I have no real desire to go down the Createx road, if I did it would be AutoAir not the fabric paint ( as I understand it that's what the Createx line was designed for, fabrics, which is why it stays flexible). AutoAir, again as I understand it, is for hard surfaces like plastics and metal, thus the name Auto. Then more specific to models is the Createx Wicked line. Here is a video ( hopefully it loads): 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Dave G.

[Dave G.]

On 11/7/2021 at 8:04 PM, TransAmMike said:

Yep, should have used maybe a tack cloth. I did brush it down with a soft paint brush tho. Heck, maybe that's actually how the dust got on.

What I do is a final blow off with the airbrush before laying down paint, so just air first then shoot it. But sometimes tiny specks or even a hunk of what I call dirt can land in the wet paint too.

[FLHCAHZ]

Great Thread

[TransAmMike]

6 hours ago, Dave G. said:

What I do is a final blow off with the airbrush before laying down paint, so just air first then shoot it. But sometimes tiny specks or even a hunk of what I call dirt can land in the wet paint too.

Yeah, after looking at a few of the Createx videos, my better choice would be the Wicked Colors over the AirBrush line. Also an addition of what they call 4050 UV clear to the mix which it is said to make it an even harder surface. Sparaying another coat or 2 of the 4050 over that will give it a kind of high sheen, but not gloss. I really think te 4050  can be polished to bring out a good factory look shine. The 4050 is an acrilic resin urethane. I will have to do some experimenting.

[Dave G.]

1 hour ago, TransAmMike said:

Yeah, after looking at a few of the Createx videos, my better choice would be the Wicked Colors over the AirBrush line. Also an addition of what they call 4050 UV clear to the mix which it is said to make it an even harder surface. Sparaying another coat or 2 of the 4050 over that will give it a kind of high sheen, but not gloss. I really think te 4050  can be polished to bring out a good factory look shine. The 4050 is an acrilic resin urethane. I will have to do some experimenting.

Maybe you've seen this one but maybe not but note in the video the products he mentions, 2050 not being among them in his list at the beginning:

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Dave G.

[TransAmMike]

28 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

Maybe you've seen this one but maybe not but note in the video the products he mentions, 2050 not being among them in his list at the beginning:

 

Apparently the 4050 is a newer protuct.  Looks like I have a bunch of videos to look at huh?!

[Dave G.]

1 hour ago, TransAmMike said:

Apparently the 4050 is a newer protuct.  Looks like I have a bunch of videos to look at huh?!

That parts up to you Mike, can't help you there lol !

[SfanGoch]

Final bit of levity which you might appreciate. This is the late, great and lamented Lone Star Cafe. Read the banner on the front.