Jump to content
Model Cars Magazine Forum

Container Ship Adrift in Atlantic with...


TransAmMike

Recommended Posts

On 2/20/2022 at 6:31 PM, bobthehobbyguy said:

True. But adequate training costs money. If there is no consequence for poor training there is no incentive to do it. Most companies feel it's easier to clean up the mess rather than do it right.

the training for a fire on a ship is to abandon ship unless it is a small fire like a bin or something. On this ship since it has an enclosed deck and the type of fire there is nothing you can do safely as the fire can only be put out with specialist dry chemicals. all you can do is leave. I can guarentee everybody on the ship will do fire training at least every 2 weeks alternated with mob drills, and the fire suppresion system would not have been usuable if there are crew on the deck as they can put out an olympic swimming pool full of water every 5 seconds (at least on the ferries i work on). also to sail in europe requires a lot of safety stuff before they will let you into port and if you dont have it you cant sail until you do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/20/2022 at 5:09 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

True, but what's always hard for me to totally swallow in "accidental" catastrophic losses like this is the apparent lack of training and preparedness of a crew to deal with what would initially be a small, easily controlled fire.

Shades of the Bonhomme Richard debacle.

“ 'Although the fire was started by an act of arson, the ship was lost due to an inability to extinguish the fire,' according to the investigation, which was written by Vice Adm. Scott Conn, then-commander of Third Fleet.

...the Navy’s investigation into the fire found that the Bonhomme Richard’s crew was ill-prepared and under-trained to contain the fire once it broke out. 

'Once the fire started, the response effort was placed in the hands of inadequately trained and drilled personnel from a disparate set of uncoordinated organizations that had not fully exercised together and were unfamiliar with basic issues to include the roles and responsibilities of the various responding entities,' reads the investigation."

The crew would have been fire trained or the boat would not have left germany, maritime and euro laws are pretty strict over here and not being trained in fires would get a ship detained until it complies with the law. if a ship has safety deficencies and docks in europe it gets detained, and it doesn't matter where the ship is registered. you could sail a ship thats safe in say bermuda to europe but if it doesn't meet the euro safety laws it will get detained. I guarentee fire training was current but not specialised in fighting lithium fires as they need special chemicals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All the more the reason why I will not buy or own an electric automobile. Now imagine if it was your own electric car’s lithium battery starts to burn unbeknownst to you while you and your family sleep, inside your garage. 

Imagine the devastation it can cause. But hey.... never say never but it could happen though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, BlackSheep214 said:

All the more the reason why I will not buy or own an electric automobile. Now imagine if it was your own electric car’s lithium battery starts to burn unbeknownst to you while you and your family sleep, inside your garage. 

Imagine the devastation it can cause. But hey.... never say never but it could happen though.

Really no different than any of the hundreds of other things that could go wrong in the night and start a fire while you sleep.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

Really no different than any of the hundreds of other things that could go wrong in the night and start a fire while you sleep.

The point though is that a few of those EVs (whether design flaw or manufacturing error) seem to have the potential to spontaneously combust while parked and turned “off”. I recall seeing videos of Tesla Model S’ doing exactly that a few years ago. How often do conventionally powered cars and trucks catch fire while parked and not running (and, like these EVs, with no outside interference)?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Smoke Wagon said:

 ...How often do conventionally powered cars and trucks catch fire while parked and not running (and, like these EVs, with no outside interference)?

Ummm...never?

This is the only one even remotely close, and it's entirely different.

https://nypost.com/2018/12/21/ford-recalling-874000-trucks-over-spontaneous-combustion-fears/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hyundai/Kia is currently having issues with their ABS modules causing fires when parked. I believe that Ford had leaky cruise control brake switches that caused fires when parked and ignition switches that could cause fires when parked or driving. I am sure there are others, so not never.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/park-recalled-hyundai-kia-vehicles-outside-due-to-fire-risk-a1002120529/

Edited by Rodent
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Rodent said:

Hyundai/Kia is currently having issues with their ABS modules causing fires when parked. I believe that Ford had leaky cruise control brake switches that caused fires when parked and ignition switches that could cause fires when parked or driving. I am sure there are others, so not never.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/park-recalled-hyundai-kia-vehicles-outside-due-to-fire-risk-a1002120529/

Another example I’ve read about is the power seat switches on older Lincolns.  Jeep had a recall for something under the hood causing random fires maybe 10 years ago.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Smoke Wagon said:

The point though is that a few of those EVs (whether design flaw or manufacturing error) seem to have the potential to spontaneously combust while parked and turned “off”. I recall seeing videos of Tesla Model S’ doing exactly that a few years ago. How often do conventionally powered cars and trucks catch fire while parked and not running (and, like these EVs, with no outside interference)?

 

We actually lost our pickup truck that way. Came home, parked it on the street, and didn't realize anything was going on until the fire truck rolled up! Never did figure out what failed but regular cars will flambé with great vigor.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Dave Ambrose said:

We actually lost our pickup truck that way. Came home, parked it on the street, and didn't realize anything was going on until the fire truck rolled up! Never did figure out what failed but regular cars will flambé with great vigor.  

I’m sorry to hear that. The positive thing is that nobody got hurt. I’m sure it’s frustrating to not know what caused it. Did the firemen find out where on the truck the fire started? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Smoke Wagon said:

Sort of the point I was trying to make, very rarely (other than reading Dave’s reply) have I ever read or heard anything about a ICE car just randomly catching fire whilst parked. 

Go buy a starter from Advance if you want to see something catch fire! I've seen them engage out of nowhere and be trying to turn the engine........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This touches on the ignition switch recall and goes on to discuss the cruise control deactivation switch debacle. Not sure how many fires were started, but Ford recalled millions of cars because of it. Having a leaky switch with electrons on one side and flammable brake fluid on the other is bad, m'kay?

https://www.autosafety.org/ford-cruise-control-deactivation-switch-recalls-and-history/

All this said, an ICE vehicle fire is quite a bit easier to put out than an EV fire.

Edited by Rodent
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The was a company I used to use for building service bodies. Had two of these trucks catch fire thanks to the build quality.

Two extra batteries in the back and a metal shelf above the batteries that wasn't secured. Hit a bump, shelf falls off and lands on the batteries, connecting the poles. Fire ensues. So two customers with $150k service trucks gone. Plus all the equipment inside the trucks.

So mystery fires can happen. :)

As Steve said above though, ICE fires are easier to deal with than EV fires.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Ummm...never?

This is the only one even remotely close, and it's entirely different.

https://nypost.com/2018/12/21/ford-recalling-874000-trucks-over-spontaneous-combustion-fears/

Ford had a major issues with fires years ago, IIRC, it went back farther than 1992 as shown in this.

https://www.autosafety.org/ford-cruise-control-deactivation-switch-recalls-and-history/

 

BMW was also having issues with this, not just on the BMWs as shown in the articles, but with Minis too.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/bmw-recalls-million-vehicles-fire-risk/story?id=50922136

Edited by Joe Handley
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...