Why these insanely overly complex cars will be junk when the dealers no longer maintain repair parts...

[Ace-Garageguy]

34 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

...Those quad lights are much harder to find good replacements for. 

Yup. The first trucks with those lights came with four glass halogen sealed-beams. Pretty good light for the time.

They scrapped the individual glass bulb design for one-piece molded plastic, OK when new, but subject to fogging and yellowing after a couple years, just like everything else clear plastic.

I've got the parts to backdate to 4 glass bulbs...which I think look lots better too...but haven't ever looked for better replacement bulbs.

Probably just mount two big 7" hi-low driving lights forward of the grille and be done with it.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

25 minutes ago, sjordan2 said:

Not just electronics. About a dozen years ago, my '93 Corvette needed a front clip after an accident and later the rear hatch glass. These parts were no longer available from the factory for my model year, and my Chevy dealer was reluctant to find other sources because they had to use "Genuine GM Parts." I tracked down the front clip online in a Phoenix salvage yard.

Friendamine's wife has a bought-new last-generation MR2 at the Yotyto dealer for over a year, after she lost the key and had some cowboy come to the house to "fix" it.

He busted up parts of the dash and scrambled the wiring, confused the computer security system. Dealer just flat will not touch it, as nothing is available new.

She got me involved, I found all the parts used, can re-flash the computer, but the dealer doesn't want to release the car until the "bill" for doing nothing is paid.

Same folks I saved a '95 Miata (also bought new) from the crusher for, after a shop had written an insane $7,000 estimate for what was really just a fender bender.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[thatz4u]

I found a guy that can fix all of the electrical/software issues....

[Rob Hall]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yup. The first trucks with those lights came with four glass halogen sealed-beams. Pretty good light for the time.

 

IIRC, weren't those 4 headlights smaller than the usual rectangular glass sealed beam...I recall GM used a small rectangular sealed beam on some quad light setups in the late 80s-mid 90s.. I don't recall sure if anyone other than GM and Isuzu used them.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Rob Hall

[Ace-Garageguy]

47 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

IIRC, weren't those 4 headlights a smaller than usual glass sealed beam...I recall GM used a small sealed beam on some quad light setups in the late 80s-early 90s.

Yes. They're kinda unusual, but appeared on a fair number of vehicles in the time period you mention.

[Lunajammer]

On 2/22/2022 at 6:15 PM, BlackSheep214 said:

We all survived just fine before they (heated seats) were added as an option. The biggest waste of $$$$ those are.

Ya married? That's all I'll say about that.

They're great until one of the two elements craps out and the power doubles to the remaining one. Just about burned down my PT Cruiser. Ashes are still dropping outta the seat and the stench lasted almost two years.

[Mark]

I just saw a story on Allpar...Stellantis has issued a "stop sale" order on 2022 Grand Cherokees.  Vehicle breaks communication with the key fob, and when the owner attempts to use an actual key, misreads that as attempted theft...

[Rob Hall]

6 minutes ago, Lunajammer said:

Ya married? That's all I'll say about that.

They're great until one of the two elements craps out and the power doubles to the remaining one. Just about burned down my PT Cruiser. Ashes are still dropping outta the seat and the stench lasted almost two years.

I'm sure a few have issues, but I put 17 yrs and 170k miles on my '00 Grand Cherokee, no problems w/ the heated seats..they still worked fine when I traded it 5 years ago..

[bbowser]

On 2/22/2022 at 10:32 AM, alexis said:

The one New Fangled Feature that I really like is the Rear View Camera. I'm fond of Anti-Lock Brakes too. 

Rear view cameras are useless if the back is dirty, like after driving 2 miles in a storm.  I find it blinding if I'm trying to back up in the dark by conventionally turning my head and looking.

I also hate antilock brakes, stand on the pedal and pray?  Just take away my control, great idea.🤔

[Tabbysdaddy]

Lol, heated seats. There's something I couldn't use. Air conditioned seats might be nice though. 

[Smoke Wagon]

I don’t care much for heated seats and steering wheels. Especially if one has to spend two grand on a convenience package that includes a bunch of other options that they don’t want.

[Tom Geiger]

I just saw a new Bronco on the road. I did a double take because it looked to be a convertible. I wasn't sure if it was, or one of those faux convertible tops, so I stopped in the local Ford store on my way to get groceries.  They had a few across their front line, one being a red Bronco with the same convertible top. 

What got me was this sticker!  OMG,  I've bought houses cheaper than this!  Do we have any car sales folk who can tell us the demographic that pays this and up into the $80s for a frickin truck?

I hear of people with over $1000 a month payments on the 8 year plan.  I can also imagine these get leased to people who make less than this sticker in a year.   

[Dave Ambrose]

Heated seats -- they just sort of came with my Frontier and being in SoCal, I thought I would never need, much less use them. Well. My wife and I go out surfing one evening, and coming home, I tried mine. We might be warm topside, but that water, especially in spring is coooold. It was so nice, that I'm now sold on them. They're also nice if your back gets cranky. 

[Tabbysdaddy]

56 minutes ago, Dave Ambrose said:

 They're also nice if your back gets cranky. 

I didn't think of that, my wife uses heat for that. Makes more sense to me now. 

[Reegs]

Power windows are a benefit. When the guy riding shotgun had the mashed turnips for lunch and they kick in, if you're adroit enough you can get all four to lower at once.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Reegs

[NOBLNG]

9 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

 

So what exactly is that $12,000 “market adjustment” fee? And that must be a really awesome winch for that price!😬

Edited February 25, 2022 by NOBLNG

[imarriedawitch]

1 hour ago, NOBLNG said:

So what exactly is that $12,000 “market adjustment” fee? And that must be a really awesome winch for that price!😬

Dealerships here have little to no inventory due to the pandemic and supply chain issues. Last time I checked the GM dealership I deal at their entire new vehicle inventory consisted of just 4 pick up trucks. In these conditions there aren't going to be any sales, promotions or discounts. These vehicles due to the current "market conditions" will sell for above retail. I wrote in another thread that I have a 2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack with about 10,000 miles on it. Since having it serviced in November I have received 3 emails from the Dodge dealership wanting to buy it back and offering almost 90% of what I paid for it. Not a trade in allowance, cash money. They're that desperate for inventory. Supply and demand. 

[iamsuperdan]

11 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

 

I just saw a new Bronco on the road. I did a double take because it looked to be a convertible. I wasn't sure if it was, or one of those faux convertible tops, so I stopped in the local Ford store on my way to get groceries.  They had a few across their front line, one being a red Bronco with the same convertible top. 

What got me was this sticker!  OMG,  I've bought houses cheaper than this!  Do we have any car sales folk who can tell us the demographic that pays this and up into the $80s for a frickin truck?

I hear of people with over $1000 a month payments on the 8 year plan.  I can also imagine these get leased to people who make less than this sticker in a year.   

Broncos are like the Jeep Wrangler. They can be had with both a removeable hardtop and a removeable soft top. In both two and four door models.

 

That sticker though. A $12k market adjustment?! Unethical and total nonsense. Most manufacturers are starting to penalize dealers that try to take advantage of the vehicle shortage like that. Withholding future allocation is a very real threat. I know for our dealer, we charge MSRP, no price bump above that. As for who pays that much? Literally everyone. Trucks and SUVs are expensive. All these features people want/need/whatever cost money. My 2021 F150 has a Canadian MSRP of about $75k, or roughly $60k US. And that's commonplace. I'm lucky though, I've been able to buy utilizing my Ford Fleet number, and not pay anywhere near full price. And with the market the way it is right now,  I could sell the truck a dozen times over at new MSRP pricing...if I could actually replace it with a new one right now. Two or three year old vehicles are selling for brand new prices because of the vehicle shortages. At my dealership, we have new F150 Platinums and Limiteds with MSRP well over $75k US, and they sell all day long. Bronco? Full price, and we're pretty much sold out for the next year.

[imarriedawitch]

1 hour ago, iamsuperdan said:

As for who pays that much? Literally everyone. Trucks and SUVs are expensive. All these features people want/need/whatever cost money.

I buy a new SUV every 5 or 6 years. By the time I get all wheel drive, all leather interior, two seat second row and the sun roof I'm at the upper tier of the  model range and the heated seats etc. just kind of comes with.

[sfhess]

6 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

So what exactly is that $12,000 “market adjustment” fee? And that must be a really awesome winch for that price!😬

That's the "be the first one on the block to get one" fee.  Usually happens with any new model that is in high demand.

I remember when the Datsun 240Z first came out.  Most dealers would add a "market adjustment", along with "mandatory equipment" like aftermarket wheels, vinyl stripes, bumper guard bars, luggage racks etc.  I remember seeing some with dealer-added vinyl roofs.  For a while it was almost impossible to get one equipped as it came from the factory.

[espo]

16 hours ago, Dave Ambrose said:

Heated seats -- they just sort of came with my Frontier and being in SoCal, I thought I would never need, much less use them. Well. My wife and I go out surfing one evening, and coming home, I tried mine. We might be warm topside, but that water, especially in spring is coooold. It was so nice, that I'm now sold on them. They're also nice if your back gets cranky. 

Wait till you go to get into your car and it is single digit temp with a wind chill that is sub zero. You start the engine and the automatic heated seats, steering wheel, and side view mirrors come on. Makes you wonder how you ever lived without them. 

[NOBLNG]

I bought my F-250 off the lot, and it just happened to have heated seats, power fold/telescoping mirrors and remote start. I wasn’t shopping for those options although I would have gotten a remote starter installed if it didn’t have it. The mirrors I really like since I have to park it right up tight beside my garage. I did have to get the drivers one replaced already (just off warranty). $1000 for an aftermarket one…$2000 from Ford!😬 I tried dismantling it to see if it could be fixed, but NO WAY!🤬 The seats are nice but I could certainly live without them.

[Aaronw]

On 2/20/2022 at 5:31 PM, Mark said:

Newer cars aren't designed to be taken apart, they are designed to be assembled as quickly as possible (fewer labor hours).  They simply don't care how long it takes to get at something.  Once it's out of the assembly plant, no longer their problem.

 

That really isn't fair, on older cars things needed more frequent access for service so they needed to be easier to get to. Many current cars have minimal service requirements before reaching 100,000 miles, basically oil changes and air filter. In the 1980s 100,000 miles was the reasonable life expectancy of many cars and you were certainly going to be getting service done before 100,000 miles if you were hoping to reach that.

Even something as simple as oil changes has gone from a recommended every 3000 miles to 5000+. Subaru's are particularly sensitive to oil issues and even they only recommend every 6000 miles, some brands are as high as 10,000 miles between oil changes for normal driving. Figure 15,000 miles a year, that is going to be maybe 2 oil changes a year compared to 5. 

[Aaronw]

On 2/21/2022 at 3:21 AM, Rob Hall said:

Yes, modern vehicles are generally way more reliable than old stuff...and need far less maintenance and at much less frequent intervals....I think I a lot of people look at old stuff w/ rose colored glasses.    

 

I have several old cars, I like them. The idea that they are trouble free is hilarious.

They can be very reliable so long as you stay on top of the recommended maintenance which is far more frequent than a modern car. Find something putting out a similar amount of power from similar displacement engine back then and the word reliable is probably never used for it. A truck in the 80s with 200hp (stock) was doing pretty good, it is hard to find a truck today that only has 200hp.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Aaronw

[Ace-Garageguy]

7 hours ago, Aaronw said:

I have several old cars, I like them. The idea that they are trouble free is hilarious.

I missed the post that asserted "old cars are trouble free".

Could you point me to that one, or quote it?