What happened to the thread about Volvo's real-world numbers regarding the payback curves of EVs?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Seemed to me to be pretty well within the purview of "general automotive" topics.

I can only assume the thread was "disappeared" on "political" grounds.

I don't believe the discussion of the physical reality of automobiles and energy generation is political...unless one is obviously engaged in upholding one particular party line.

But facts don't care about politics.

EDIT: I think we deserve some clarity about which facts are forbidden ground.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[Casey]

Maybe it was the repeated excessive use of bold and all caps. Even if not, perhaps consider dialing back your tone of voice an apply some old school netiquette when posting.

[iamsuperdan]

Discussing government policy, whether fact or fiction, is "forbidden ground."

 

There are plenty of forums out there where people can get into discussions about government, politicians, policy, etc. Since day one, THIS board has NOT been the place.

 

Discussing EVs is totally fine, but when it crosses the line into politics and procedures, that is the end of the line.

 

Head on over to Motor1.com or Insideevs.com and you can debate policy, name names, and discuss all manner of government as it pertains to the automotive world.

[Ace-Garageguy]

SMH

[SfanGoch]

How about just posting a television test pattern in lieu of any possible topics? Every time an interesting and intellectually stimulating subject is posted and begins to be enthusiastically discussed, the hall monitors either lock it or "disappear" it because they don't think that the members are intelligent enough to comprehend the content and comment in a civil manner. "They" seem to feel that members are only capable of posting and discussing dumbed down floof which requires no thinking on either the poster's or reader's part. Whether you want to hear it or not, this puts a drag on the entire forum.

[Tabbysdaddy]

I was just hoping it wasn't something I said.

[iamsuperdan]

I'm sorry Joe, are you new here?

 

Without fail, every single thread that discusses EVs, or kit prices, or car parts, or policy or whatever devolves into politics. 

Inevitably, there will be one or two individuals who cannot stop themselves from railing against China or US policymakers or any number of other things that are off limits. It happens. Every. Time.

 

How many times must it be said? No politics. No religion. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of other forums and boards one can go to do discuss those things. 

 

The entire point of this board is to get away from that stuff and discuss building models. We're here because of the "dumbed down floof."

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

...We're here because of the "dumbed down floof."

OK, that's pretty definitive.

In other words, no thinking allowed.

[SfanGoch]

4 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

I'm sorry Joe, are you new here?

No, between the two of us, you're the newbie. Check your join date.

5 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

No politics. No religion.

Exactly the types of topics which belong in the oxymoronically titled Off-Topic Lounge because they are off-topic. But, they're not. Therefore, OTL is not OTl in fact.

[Rusty92]

Bill, why don’t you just build a model, post some photos in WIP and Under Glass and enjoy the hobby. It might do you some good. You obviously possess the skills and know how to do so, so do it. I might not agree with everything you say, but I’ve seen your work and how-to threads and appreciate those. I think you’d enjoy the site much more if you contributed in different ways and didn’t take everything as a personal offense. Hope you have a good day and a better tomorrow. 

[mikemodeler]

1 hour ago, SfanGoch said:

No, between the two of us, you're the newbie. Check your join date.

Exactly the types of topics which belong in the oxymoronically titled Off-Topic Lounge because they are off-topic. But, they're not. Therefore, OTL is not OTl in fact.

The Off-Topic Lounge

General discussions on anything EXCEPT politics or religion! Keep it clean... all forum rules apply!

 

Gee, can't get much more clear than that Joe. Maybe a refresher on the rules of the forum are in order, seeing how you have been here a long time and have forgotten them, and how to read.

[SfanGoch]

I know what the rules are, Mike. I don't agree with the premise that those two subjects should be off limits in a sub-forum which is supposed to be where off-topic (non-modeling-related) subjects are discussed. That's my opinion to which I'm entitled. BTW, my reading comprehension is excellent, as is my spelling and grammar. Although, I can't speak for anyone else here. That's for readers of posts and comments to decide.

[Tabbysdaddy]

I think I figured it out. It's like Minority Report. Locked to prevent future crimes.

[SfanGoch]

George Orwell is calling and he wants his dystopian future back.

[iamsuperdan]

59 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

I think I figured it out. It's like Minority Report. Locked to prevent future crimes.

Bingo!

 

 

 

46 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

George Orwell is calling and he wants his dystopian future back.

 

Seriously? 

So by not allowing discussion of two subjects that ALWAYS lead to arguments and fights; by trying to keep things civil, you think we are turning into a totalitarian regime?

 

This thread just proves that even the very idea of politics gets people fired up and argumentative.

 

 

I'm starting to think this isn't the right place for some of you. I'm sure there are other model building boards that would be much more welcoming and open to heated political debate. Perhaps you should investigate.

[Ace-Garageguy]

"I'm starting to think this isn't the right place for some of you."

 

I suppose that applies to me for posting links to an unbiased report by Volvo concerning the realities of EVs vs ICEs, and following it up with a link to how Chinese industry is developing real-world solutions to carbon emissions and pollution...in the spirit of imparting information I mistakenly believed people supposedly interested in cars would like to know.

I missed the "heated political debate" part of that thread entirely.

I went back to work and it just disappeared.

Ever heard the phrase "petty tyrant"?

Let's make this as real as we can, and show everybody exactly where we stand, OK?

Edited March 24, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[imarriedawitch]

Because something supports your point of view doesn't make it unbiased. Everyone has biases.

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 minutes ago, imarriedawitch said:

Because something supports your point of view doesn't make it unbiased. Everyone has biases.

Volvo makes both EVs and ICEs, and their report was done from a business-case standpoint, not a political one.

And you really shouldn't assume facts not in evidence. Volvo's conclusions do NOT entirely support my own point of view, but I'm open minded enough to present them anyway...and to possibly learn something.

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy

[Casey]

45 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

I'm starting to think this isn't the right place for some of you. I'm sure there are other model building boards that would be much more welcoming and open to heated political debate. Perhaps you should investigate.

Perhaps it's time to consider moving the 1:1 automotive topics/discussion from General Discussion altogether, and creating a sub-section (along with the 1:1 reference pictures) for it.

[von Zipper]

You guys make me laugh and laugh........

 

[Oldcarfan27]

And now for a little levity before somebody brings out the key!

[keyser]

@Ace-Garageguy

I don’t think the Volvo thing was the issue. Stuff devolves here, it’s the polarization and overgeneralizing after issue raised. Plus scatter. People land on point that is tangent, and off it goes. 
E.G. new kit: Box art bad; valve covers wrong; glad we have one; do it right; real modelers fix; why didn’t they;….. Always. Every. Single. Time. 
A car board I’m on requires subscription that is not cheap before you discuss P&R. Some only post there. Reasonable people go off rails, carries into rest of huge forum. Not good, people get banned from PR, proceed to continue in other forums. Banned overall. 
Not worth it. 
Id rather not know everyone’s opinion. Certainly not here. Sometimes the opinions burn. 🤦🏻‍♂️🫠

Edited March 24, 2022 by keyser

[Smoke Wagon]

Porsche was researching into synthesized fuels for ICE cars and trucks a while back. It was something about harvesting CO2 from the atmosphere and using it and hydrogen to synthesize hydrocarbons, leading to a gasoline without any useless byproducts left in it, resulting in cleaner burning, better engine efficiency, and less harmful emissions. On top of that, since the CO2 required to make the fuel would be sourced from the atmosphere, it would be carbon neutral. Sounded like a win-win idea.

[Rusty92]

3 minutes ago, Smoke Wagon said:

Porsche was researching into synthesized fuels for ICE cars and trucks a while back. It was something about harvesting CO2 from the atmosphere and using it and hydrogen to synthesize hydrocarbons, leading to a gasoline without any useless byproducts left in it, resulting in cleaner burning, better engine efficiency, and less harmful emissions. On top of that, since the CO2 required to make the fuel would be sourced from the atmosphere, it would be carbon neutral. Sounded like a win-win idea.

That would be awesome. I should look into that.

[Smoke Wagon]

It would still be a change in infrastructure, but nowhere near the same level as ripping out or repurposing thousands of gas stations and building charging kiosks in stores’ parking lots. It also wouldn’t render the majority of vehicles on the road completely obsolete, so there’s that too.