Monty Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 For simplicity's sake, we'll keep this within the realm of hobby paint that will be airbrushed. I'm considering Testors Burgundy Red for a future project, but having used it in the distant past, I know that it's lighter than the shade I want and it can be "splotchy". Can I make the color richer by adding Humbrol clear red to it before airbrushing. (I have the Humbrol clear red, and can get the Burgundy, but buying it will be contingent on the answers received here. Hence, no spoon tests) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitchdup Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 The humbrol clear red is a celulose paint, not an enamel like the other paints so I would say no. If you use a magnifier the tiny lines on the humbrol tin are actually the ingredients but why they wrote them in letter you cant see with just your eyes is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted June 4, 2022 Author Share Posted June 4, 2022 13 minutes ago, stitchdup said: The humbrol clear red is a celulose paint, not an enamel like the other paints so I would say no. If you use a magnifier the tiny lines on the humbrol tin are actually the ingredients but why they wrote them in letter you cant see with just your eyes is beyond me. Is cellulose another name for lacquer or... I assumed all my Humbrol paints were enamel. (I don't have any of their acrylics). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stitchdup Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 17 minutes ago, Monty said: Is cellulose another name for lacquer or... I assumed all my Humbrol paints were enamel. (I don't have any of their acrylics). its a 70s auto paint i think but im not sure on american terms. I only know cos i tried to use it over acrylic and didn't understand why it crazed all over. I wouldn't bother with their acrylics, most seem to be full of sand in my experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOBLNG Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 53 minutes ago, Monty said: Is cellulose another name for lacquer or... I assumed all my Humbrol paints were enamel. (I don't have any of their acrylics). Yes, cellulose is lacquer based. I am curious too. 🤔 Many have used lacquer thinner to thin enamel paints for spraying….so why couldn’t the two paints be mixed? There may be chemical incompatibility’s that would make it not work? Everything I’ve googled is about putting one on top of the other. I guess a person would have to experiment.😈 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisc63 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, NOBLNG said: Many have used lacquer thinner to thin enamel paints for spraying….so why couldn’t the two paints be mixed? Still two different types of basic chemistry, it just happens that lacquer thinner is a hot solvent that works well enough as a "thinner" for hobby enamels. You won't, however, find anyone thinning lacquers with enamel reducer. Why? Incompatible chemistry rears its ugly head then. The way enamel reducers ( note "reducer" instead of "thinner") work to reduce the viscosity of enamel is different at the molecular level as it acts in harmony with the carrier, pigment, and binder that comprise the enamel paint. " Thinners" can disrupt the molecular bond, and weaken the integrity of the paint coat. Tread carefully; just because you can doesn't mean you should! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Lacquer hardens (dries) by evaporation of the solvent. Enamel also dries by solvent evaporation, but then it continues to cure by a chemical reaction. Sometimes that process takes quite some time. I have never tried mixing those two paint types, but understanding the difference in chemistry, I would not even try that. But my advice based on theory has been questioned and ridiculed on this forum, so feel free to try the experiment, or be safe and listen to the advice given. As far as "cellulose" , that seems be a colloquial name used in European countries for describing Nitrocellulose lacquer (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacquer#Nitrocellulose_lacquers). Opaque Humbrol paints are enamels (similar to the old Testors or Pactra model paints), but I believe that the transparent paints are lacquers. If you are looking for clear red version of Testors paints, maybe get the metallic ruby red paint and let the metallic particles settle down, then use the transparent part of the paint. Or maybe just test ruby red to see if it might be a color you can use instead of the burgundy. It is a dark metallic red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gman Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 I mixed Testors enamels and Humbrol tin paint many years ago (early 80's), in trying to come up with a seafoam shade of green for a '30 Ford woody model out of paints I had on-hand. I thinned the mixture with Testors airbrush thinner and shot it through the airbrush- on the model body it came out pretty good, dried nice and shiny, but when prepping to spray some additional parts not even 10 minutes later the paint remaining in the jar congealed in both the jar and the airbrush. In a nutshell, a science experiment gone wrong. I believe I had to toss the airbrush pickup tube and jar, as even lacquer thinner wouldn't break down the curdled sludge that remained. I was operating under the assumption that both Testors and Humbrol were enamels, but found there was definitely some difference in chemistry between the two. If I had a do-over, I would have tried to stay within the same paint brand and type to come up with the shade I was looking for, and would have used cheap hardware store lacquer thinner to get the paint thin enough to spray through the airbrush. You can use a recommended thinner with enamels and get decent results, but a little bit of lacquer thinner added to the mix seems to improve flow and drying qualities when airbrushing. If you feel the need to mix Testors and Humbrol, I would suggest mixing up a small batch of colour and doing a test spray, and watch for any adverse reactions in the colour cup/jar (and be prepared to act quickly if things curdle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 1017 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 This H&G video explains how to use a color wheel. I use when I need a custom color My first step would be to look for an OEM color that I like. When I mix paints, I only use the same brand. There is nothing worse than watching paint craze on a body. Off the top of my head, I would try a Kandy Burgandy Wine. With any Kandy you have a lot of control on how light or dark you want to go. Maybe a Burgandy Pearl. Check out HOK is my go-to. Good luck Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 1017 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 How to Use the Color Wheel to Pick Your Perfect Color Palette | Better Homes & Gardens (bhg.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Can-Con Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Or you could use this site to find the color you want in hobby paint. Looks intimidating but it's really easy, just follow the instructions. [as model builders, we all know what instructions are. 😉] https://www.spotmodel.com/color_finder.php?settings=[35.1,100,53.1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Can-Con Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Yea, I would never mix lacquer and enamel, and especially never paint a car model with such witches brew of a mixture. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted June 4, 2022 Author Share Posted June 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Can-Con said: Yea, I would never mix lacquer and enamel, and especially never paint a car model with such witches brew of a mixture. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave G. Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Many many many moons ago I used that burgundy quite a bit. In my experience it goes down best over black. Be that black plastic or primer or whatever but black. Put it over white and you get some muted other color I have no name for. Now I'm working from 72yo memory banks here so don't quiz me on it too hard but that's the experience I seem to recall dating back to about 1961 or so. I had to laugh watching one of the youtube videos of a guy showing people how he was going to spray this Chevy Impala body with the burgundy. After about the 6th coat the video ended and I don't recall any follow up. The body of course was white, the color it was turning into not burgundy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcarfan27 Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 You know what they say about when in doubt... Why not just try to find the paint color in a formula you're comfortable with? It's not worth the risk to experiment on a prized build. Now if you already had both paints on hand and a junker to practice on, by all means have at it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 On 6/4/2022 at 7:21 PM, Dave G. said: Many many many moons ago I used that burgundy quite a bit. In my experience it goes down best over black. Be that black plastic or primer or whatever but black. Put it over white and you get some muted other color I have no name for. Now I'm working from 72yo memory banks here so don't quiz me on it too hard but that's the experience I seem to recall dating back to about 1961 or so. I had to laugh watching one of the youtube videos of a guy showing people how he was going to spray this Chevy Impala body with the burgundy. After about the 6th coat the video ended and I don't recall any follow up. The body of course was white, the color it was turning into not burgundy. Agree with this completely. Some years ago I painted a '69 4-4-2 body with Model Master Burgundy over Rust primer. When I got the color I wanted, I polished out the body and got exactly the "blotchy" appearance you're talking about. I airbrushed two or three more coats of the Burgundy, followed by a couple coats of Clear Top Coat enamel. I then polished out the clear for a perfect appearance. So my advice is: 1. Black primer. 2. Burgundy, as many coats as needed for an even color. 3. Clear topcoat. 4. Polish topcoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 Never mix different brands of paints. Definitely a waste of time and paint. A brand and type is called a paint system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcarfan27 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 On 6/4/2022 at 12:52 PM, Can-Con said: ...[as model builders, we all know what instructions are. 😉] "Instructions",what's that? I think you mean the "suggestion" sheet. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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