Round 2 Aug 2022

[showrods]

1 hour ago, Stef said:

I constantly marvel at how technical model tooling and manufacturing has always been.

In the early days, much of this stuff was considered temporary, and ultimately disposable.

OK, this is probably super-naive, but gotta ask anyway. Just curious, what if the model companies, in an effort to identify old things they rediscover, were to simply push playdoh or something into the halves, take pictures, post them online, and get us, the community, to identify them?

There are so many smart dudes here, we're a literal encyclopedia of model car history.

Just imagine: "Hey, that one is MPC's old Chevy Monza. Boom. This one is MPC's 74 Super Charger. Boom."

Me personally, I'm super happy to be getting so many old kits back into our hands. And I'd be even happier to help them bring back even more.

I'll buy myself a flight to any warehouse, comb through the archives, catalogue it, and post it here.

You guys will work your magic.

As I understand it, the configuration of the machines wouldn't allow it.  I believe that the machines run using styrene pellets that are melted and then pushed into the mold.  I could be wrong about this.

 

[Luc Janssens]

40 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

All these posts about whether or not Round 2's going to run the old Styline parts along with the old-tool '57 and I'm just over here upset that they STILL haven't brought back the new-tool Street Machine kit. 

What if Round2 would backdate it, to a sixties or seventies street machine, box-art a black car with yellow flames on mags with the tail a little higher

Would it fly?

 

[Justin Porter]

Just now, Luc Janssens said:

What if Round2 would backdate it, to a sixties or seventies street machine, box-art a black car with yellow flames on mags with the tail a little higher

Would it fly?

 

The gorgeous modern Art Morrison style frame, mini-tubs, and detailed four link w/Panhard bar that all add up to make that kit a landmark among modern hot rod kits are the whole reason it's desirable. Backdating it would totally defeat the purpose. I'll thoroughly grant it could stand a change of wheel and tire package to something aside from those parts bin leftover C4 Corvette wheels, but if they're going that far then the wheel and tire package should be something appropriately modern along the same lines as the Revell "California Wheels" series instead.

[Rob Hall]

21 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

The gorgeous modern Art Morrison style frame, mini-tubs, and detailed four link w/Panhard bar that all add up to make that kit a landmark among modern hot rod kits are the whole reason it's desirable. Backdating it would totally defeat the purpose. I'll thoroughly grant it could stand a change of wheel and tire package to something aside from those parts bin leftover C4 Corvette wheels, but if they're going that far then the wheel and tire package should be something appropriately modern along the same lines as the Revell "California Wheels" series instead.

I don't think they have ever reissued that kit, it is a sharp kit with a lot of nice parts.  I don't think the stock modern tool version has been reissued more than once, but the ancient '57 gets reissued every few years...strange.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Rob Hall

[keyser]

2 hours ago, Stef said:

I'll buy myself a flight to any warehouse, comb through the archives, catalogue it, and post it here.

Some of our warehouses are better lit. 🙂🤦🏻‍♂️
Likely a few have bigger footprint. Lol. Pita when thinning herd. 

[Luc Janssens]

33 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

The gorgeous modern Art Morrison style frame, mini-tubs, and detailed four link w/Panhard bar that all add up to make that kit a landmark among modern hot rod kits are the whole reason it's desirable. Backdating it would totally defeat the purpose. I'll thoroughly grant it could stand a change of wheel and tire package to something aside from those parts bin leftover C4 Corvette wheels, but if they're going that far then the wheel and tire package should be something appropriately modern along the same lines as the Revell "California Wheels" series instead.

Didn't know it has a Art Morrison frame, thought only the sedan delivery with the funky headlamps had it.

[Justin Porter]

1 minute ago, Luc Janssens said:

Didn't know it has a Art Morrison frame, thought only the sedan delivery with the funky headlamps had it.

Good picture of someone's box stock build. You can see the four-link w/Panhard bar, the mini-tubs, and the 454 big block and modern automatic transmission combination in the box were quite good too. Just about everything underneath the body was separate tooling from the factory stock kit. Even the mostly stock interior still necessitated different side panels because of the unique floorpan with the tubs. The trunk contained a very nice "off the shelf at Summit" style fuel cell too. 

[stavanzer]

2 hours ago, Justin Porter said:

All these posts about whether or not Round 2's going to run the old Styline parts along with the old-tool '57 and I'm just over here upset that they STILL haven't brought back the new-tool Street Machine kit. 

It would be great to have that kit back.

[Mark]

Still can't warm up to that new-tool '57.  That separate (but not hinged) trunk lid that doesn't sit flush when closed bothers me.  The separate door handles don't look right also.

I've done the alterations needed to hinge the trunk lid and get it flush with the body when closed, but haven't gotten much further with it.  I should get back to it.

[stavanzer]

2 minutes ago, Mark said:

Still can't warm up to that new-tool '57.  That separate (but not hinged) trunk lid that doesn't sit flush when closed bothers me.  The separate door handles don't look right also.

I've done the alterations needed to hinge the trunk lid and get it flush with the body when closed, but haven't gotten much further with it.  I should get back to it.

Apparently nobody really ever warmed to the 'new' '57 kit.  SAE hyped it to the Max, but sales failed to match the expectations.

[Mark]

When Scale Auto "issued the call" for a new '57 Chevy kit, I thought Lindberg would have stepped up, not Ertl.  It would have been interesting to see Lindberg's take on a '57, and to find out which body style and trim level they would have done.  When I found out it was AMT, I figured they wouldn't have strayed as far from their original one as they did.  More parts, platform interior, things like that.  But I thought the body would be closer to the original, with the side trim reworked and maybe the Bel Air "washboards" molded as part of the body like other '57 kits.

Strange that the Revell snap '57 hardtop has a lot of the feel of the original AMT kit, while the newer AMT hardtop resembles the old Revell kit.

[Can-Con]

I think the biggest problem with selling the street machine '57 Chevy was they didn't make it clear that fantastic chassis and engine was in the kit. 

Just taking a quick look at the box and you'd think it was just the stock kit with a set of Vette wheels and tires and some dress-up parts on a belly button big block engine. 

I think a set of slightly larger wheels/tires in a more popular style and the underside painted to best show off the unique chassis and it would have flew off the shelves.

BTW, at the time, I had no idea about that chassis or I would have bought at least 3 for chassis donors for other cars.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Can-Con

[Mark]

The market got flooded with those new-tool Chevy kits.  There were four versions out at the same time (basic stock version, Coca-Cola,  Pro Shop, and street machine.  Toys R Us laid in quite a supply of all of them, then decided to get rid of the model kit shelves in their stores.  They blew all of those out for $3.33 apiece.  I bought all of the Pro Shop and street machine kits I saw, and resold all but a couple of them later.  In some stores, they didn't have any other car kits, those were the ones they had at the end.

[keyser]

I never knew about that chassis either. Not huge 57 fan, Revell ruined them for me. But I'd have grabbed that chassis to stuff under others for sure.

The rod issue of the 68 ElCamino has tubs and goodies, and would be perfect to stuff the kart or soapbox car in it. @Steve G just a thought

[Motor City]

The front fender vents don't even line up ...

[Plowboy]

2 hours ago, Can-Con said:

I think the biggest problem with selling the street machine '57 Chevy was they didn't make it clear that fantastic chassis and engine was in the kit. 

Just taking a quick look at the box and you'd think it was just the stock kit with a set of Vette wheels and tires and some dress-up parts on a belly button big block engine. 

I think a set of slightly larger wheels/tires in a more popular style and the underside painted to best show off the unique chassis and it would have flew off the shelves.

BTW, at the time, I had no idea about that chassis or I would have bought at least 3 for chassis donors for other cars.

I think you nailed it Steve. The box art gave me the exact impression that you described.

In all my years of building models, I've never built a '57 Chevrolet. It's my least favorite of the tri-fives. The things everyone loves about them are the things I don't like. Still, I have three of them in the stash. One thing's for sure, no one can say the 57 Chevrolet hasn't been covered by the kit companies. AMT has three. Revell has six. Now one less to Atlantis. Don't know if they got the Nomad also. Monogram has three. MPC has one. Is it any wonder people complain, "we don't need another 57 Chevy!"?

I don't understand the desire for this AMT '57. The side trim looks horrible and always has. Has the '90’s stock issue ever been reissued?

Edited August 10, 2022 by Plowboy

[Plowboy]

1 hour ago, Motor City said:

The front fender vents don't even line up ...

That was obviously a test shot buildup. They're more faint and perfectly in line on the production kit.

[Motor City]

Atlantis is working on the tooling for the '57 Nomad.

My folks' were the original owners of a '57 Bel Air sport coupe (hardtop).  Dad liked the '58 Impala better when it came out, but the dealer wouldn't give much for trade-in, so he kept the Bel Air.  He thought the '57 was too busy looking, but the Impala had even more glop on it!  I wouldn't mind owning one identical to the one we had, which was identical to the one pictured except without Fuel Injection.

  

[Justin Porter]

12 hours ago, keyser said:

I never knew about that chassis either. Not huge 57 fan, Revell ruined them for me. But I'd have grabbed that chassis to stuff under others for sure.

The rod issue of the 68 ElCamino has tubs and goodies, and would be perfect to stuff the kart or soapbox car in it. @Steve G just a thought

The Street Machine version of the El Camino was fantastic too! That EFI supercharger setup on the big block was an amazingly trick piece that always shocks me didn't find its way into a ton of Pro Touring builds. Likewise, for that matter, the "mini Viper" EFI setup on the 340 in the Street Machine version of the '71 Duster kit. 

Of course, reading all of the "I never knew that chassis existed" posts on the '57 Chevy Street Machine kit proves that for all of their tooling genius at the time, AMT/Ertl didn't know how to market what they had and that's a shame.

[tim boyd]

7 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

The Street Machine version of the El Camino was fantastic too! That EFI supercharger setup on the big block was an amazingly trick piece that always shocks me didn't find its way into a ton of Pro Touring builds. Likewise, for that matter, the "mini Viper" EFI setup on the 340 in the Street Machine version of the '71 Duster kit. 

Of course, reading all of the "I never knew that chassis existed" posts on the '57 Chevy Street Machine kit proves that for all of their tooling genius at the time, AMT/Ertl didn't know how to market what they had and that's a shame.

What Justin said!  Both about the street machine versions of both kits (I would include the '57 Bel Air, the '68 Elky, the '71 Duster, and the '67 Impala), and the absolutely pathetic job the AMT-Ertl box art did at not selling/informing the features of these John Mueller era street themed tooling variations.   TIM 

[unclescott58]

On 8/5/2022 at 4:16 PM, Can-Con said:

That particular '57 Chevy, "Hint of Mint" is a well known car and it's history is well documented. The custom work shown in those pics was done in '65/'66. 

Here's a link to the "Custom Car Chronicles" page on the car.

https://www.customcarchronicle.com/custom-cars/57-chevy-hint-of-mint/

 

Great link, and interesting story. 

[unclescott58]

All the talk of the “new tool” AMT/Ertl ‘57 Chevy kits can be echoed by me. I have one of the “stock,” unbuilt ones in my collection. I don’t know why, but the car just didn’t have feel right to me when I opened the box. It was missing a charm or something that the 60’s vintage AMT ‘57 had. I never noticed the problems with the side trim on the old kit, until discussions about it came up when the new kit was released. And yet despite that, there was still something about the old kit that made me like it better? I always joke about liking the older kit better because of optional Tiki shift lever, even though I’ve never used one on any of my builds of the kit. 

[Stef]

51 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

...reading all of the "I never knew that chassis existed" posts on the '57 Chevy Street Machine kit proves that for all of their tooling genius at the time, AMT/Ertl didn't know how to market what they had and that's a shame.

Agreed 128%, @Justin Porter. I never understood the "grandma marketing" purple prose writing style that AMT did on their boxes in the early 90s, and Revellogram adopted and intensified in the mid-90s and beyond. That kind of stuff appeals to old ladies who are thinking of getting something "neat" for their grandson, while saying nothing to people who actually build.

I want big colourful pictures of what is in the box with lots of views and angles, chassis shots, interior shots, and show us or tell us about optional parts/build iterations, etc.

Love how Revellogram started including chassis photos on their boxes a few years back.

Love how Round 2 continues to depict parts silhouettes on the bottoms of their boxes.

Manage expectations. Let buyers know that 64 Galaxie is a curbside, that 57 Cadillac is a multi-piece body from 1000 years ago, and that 48 Lincoln is an old Pyro tooled up from stone knives and bearskins.

People are more forgiving when they are shown/told upfront what to expect, ahead of time.

Great box art informs more customers, ensures many more smiling faces when they open up the box, and sells more kits.

[unclescott58]

On 8/3/2022 at 10:14 AM, Plowboy said:

Those styline parts for the '57 Chevy wouldn't be worth the styrene that would be wasted just for the handful of people that would actually use them. Much less the time and effort it would take on the tooling. There's a reason they're not there any longer. They're horrible. 

I would buy another ‘57 Chevy if the Styline parts were restored to kit. Even though, like the Tiki shifter I mentioned in my post above, I would probably never use those parts. There is no logic to it. But, I like the idea of having the option to build with Styline parts if I wanted to. 

It maybe a waste to put the Styline parts back in future releases of the kit in general. But, it would get somebody like me, who needs another AMT ‘57 Chevy like they need another hole in their head, to buy another one. Reissuing again without those parts is not going to get me to open my wallet and buy another one. 

[stavanzer]

14 minutes ago, unclescott58 said:

I would buy another ‘57 Chevy if the Styline parts were restored to kit. Even though, like the Tiki shifter I mentioned in my post above, I would probably never use those parts. There is no logic to it. But, I like the idea of having the option to build with Styline parts if I wanted to. 

It maybe a waste to put the Styline parts back in future releases of the kit in general. But, it would get somebody like me, who needs another AMT ‘57 Chevy like they need another hole in their head, to buy another one. Reissuing again without those parts is not going to get me to open my wallet and buy another one. 

Especially in the Pepper Shaker version that I already have 2 of. A straight re-issue is not going to get many repeat customers. BUt, I suspect people like me are not the target for this re-issue. New Buyers at Hooby Looby are the target for this. They have never seen this kit, or the '56 Ford or the '49 Ford. To them, these are all new kits.