Why Aren’t Companies Rescanning Old Kits?

[CabDriver]

I’ve come to realize that having a really nice build at the end of a project is much more down to my skills as a builder than the quality of the box of parts I started with.

There’s probably VERY few kits that a suitably skilled builder couldn’t make a show-winning jaw-dropping build out of, as long as said builder is patient and determined enough…it’s just about accepting that YOU’RE the one responsible for the end result.  

Other people’s mileage (and opinion of AMT kits, or whatever else we’re proclaiming to be ‘junk’ this week) may vary…

Edited August 21, 2022 by CabDriver

[BlackSheep214]

Better yet, what happened to those old molds too. Surely they’re stored somewhere in warehouse waaaay in the back or destroyed. After awhile, the molds do get bad and the reason there so much flash on the sprues.

Take the Revell  1/48 scale Black Widow kit for example. They are the old Monogram kit. Got it for Christmas last year from my son. Worked on it for a bit and it was horrible fit. Even the figures had the looks of being suffered through famine. Certainly not like the original Monogram kit which was a joy to build.

[Oldmopars]

I sometimes think that we are missing the point. Isn't this a hobby? Don't we do it for fun? In a hobby we don't have to do anything. We can choose to buy a kit we like, or not too. If the cost is more than we are willing to pay, don't get it. 

I know $30-80 is a hard price to swallow for a box of plastic. But so is $1100 for a stupid IPhone or Galaxy and how many of us have those? I almost bought a new car a week ago, when I sat down and figured out the thing was going to cost me $1000 a month, I said I will pass. $50,000+ for a car or $75,000+ for a pickup? We complain about $30 for a model kit. 

Everything has gone up, when model kits were $6, gas was under $1 and a new car was less than $10,000. Back then the average new house was about $50,000, now it is $500,000 in many places. 

So, I would love to spend $10 or less on a new kit and have it be perfect. But its not going to happen. The kit quality is the same as it was in 1975, why expect it to be better now? 

Oh, and if you think Round2 or Revells stuff is expensive, try to buy any of the Italian or Japanese kits. 

If you don't like the kit, don't buy it. If you can't afford it, find a different hobby. I dare you to find a cheaper hobby. 

[leafsprings]

On 8/20/2022 at 6:44 AM, Jordan White said:

This was something that just crossed my mind: for the kits where they can’t find the original tooling, what is stopping them from purchasing a sealed kit and rescanning everything? Or has this been done already?

Yes, it has been done with the Ertl International 4070 cabover that was originally introduced in '73.  For decades it has been a very hard to find kit, it has been recently reversed engineered from an older complete kit. IMO, if it can be done to this kit, it can be done to any highly sought after older kit.  I guess we need to get in their ear to reverse engineer more kits that will sell!

[Tabbysdaddy]

I guess I'm stuck in the past, I paid $50k for my house 7 years ago.

[StevenGuthmiller]

27 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

I guess I'm stuck in the past, I paid $50k for my house 7 years ago.

Does it say Maytag on the side? 😊

 

 

Steve

[Tabbysdaddy]

17 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Does it say Maytag on the side? 😊

 

 

Steve

No, but it was a scratch and dent special.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

No, but it was a scratch and dent special.

Just curious because you’d be hard pressed to even get a lot around here for 50 grand, and if it did have a house on it, it would probably be a trap house, and a gallon of gas and a match would be too good for it. 😁

 

 

 

Steve

Edited August 23, 2022 by StevenGuthmiller

[Tabbysdaddy]

2 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Just curious because you’d be hard pressed to even get a lot around here for 50 grand, and if it did have a house on it, it was probably a trap house and a gallon of gas and a match were too good for it. 😁

 

 

 

Steve

The description read "house is almost a tear down." It wasn't as bad as some of the houses I've repaired though. 

[stavanzer]

Back on thread.

I suspect that the success of the last two years of the re-scanned kits, has probably moved the needle at Round2. We do not see or hear what is going on, but I am sure that there are lively discussions behind the scenes about what kits may be suitable for a re-scan/clone procedure.

What kits might sell, what kits are good enough to get by with just a re-scan of a body or minor parts to complete the kit, or whether it is a Full Bore, Total Cloning of a subject that does not exist in the Tool Bank anymore. It is a delicate balancing act, and if you have not run a small business, a tricky one , as well. And, Remember that by business standards, Round2 IS a small business. I'll guess that my last employer (with 75 trucks and a payroll of 850 people, a comparatively small trucking company.) was an order of magnitude larger than Round2. So, there is a constant struggle to Meet the Bills, Develop and Deliver Product, Please Customers, maybe have a bit of Fun at work, and lastly, Turn some Profit.  If you cannot do these things, there is no reason to be in business.

But we are all adults here. We all work for, or own a business. None of these fiscal realities are new or unknown to anybody on this board.  Yet, Grown-A55 Adults rip on Round2 like they have never paid a bill, run a household or had to make a spending choice between "Needs" and "Wants". It is sometime quite depressing.......

I get it. Few of us here are under 40. We all grew up on 10 Dollar & 20 Dollar kits. Paying over Thirty Bucks for a kit that you have sitting on a shelf at home with a $9.99 Price tag from K-mart can be a bit galling.  But, This one has fresh (not 30 year old styrene) Newer, Better Decals, and Pad Printed Tires (almost every time). And, as other have mentioned, you paid 3.99 per gallon for gas to get to the store.  "That was Then, This is Now". Those times and that economy are not coming back.  

As far a quality of tooling, kit subjects ect.  Pocher, Ebbro, Beemax, NuNu, and Tamiya all make greatly detailed,  World Class kits. Enough Detail to satisfy most anybody. There is an aftermarket that sells items that improve, already great kits, so you can take them to the next level. So, the details are there. You just have to pay for them. And, there is the nub of the trouble. We don't want to pay for those things.. We say we do, but, when it comes time to open the wallet, many folks can't do it, or won't do it without squealing like a stuck pig.  Like they say about any form of Motorsport.. (How Fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to Spend?) 

Revell and Round2 and Atlantis and Italeri and Salvinos are entry level modeling. Many Builders are happy to stay at this level for years. (I know I am), and it can be very rewarding. It is still a cheap hobby, when compared to others.  If you want to push your limits, buy Resin parts, then move up to Resin Bodies, then Resin Trans-kits, and then off you go! Then, step up to more expensive and better kits. You can choose where on the ladder you want to build.

But, stop moaning about Champagne Prices on a Beer Budget. If you have made your way here, and signed up for an account, and now post comments, you are, almost by definition, not a "Newb" anymore.  And oddly, the real newbs seldom moan much about prices.  For the truly new-to-the-hobby, $30.00 is the base price they are used to, so they don't sqawk much about the cost. It seems to be only "Olde Pharts"(tm) of many ages who make a fuss about Junk Kits and High Prices.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, stavanzer said:

...by business standards, Round2 IS a small business. I'll guess that my last employer (with 75 trucks and a payroll of 850 people, a comparatively small trucking company.) was an order of magnitude larger than Round2. So, there is a constant struggle to Meet the Bills, Develop and Deliver Product, Please Customers, maybe have a bit of Fun at work, and lastly, Turn some Profit.  If you cannot do these things, there is no reason to be in business...

...we are all adults here. We all work for, or own a business. None of these fiscal realities are new or unknown to anybody on this board.  Yet, Grown-A55 Adults rip on Round2 like they have never paid a bill, run a household or had to make a spending choice between "Needs" and "Wants".

100% on point.

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, stavanzer said:

Yet, Grown-A55 Adults rip on Round2 like they have never paid a bill, run a household or had to make a spending choice between "Needs" and "Wants". It is sometime quite depressing.......

 

2 hours ago, stavanzer said:

But, stop moaning about Champagne Prices on a Beer Budget. If you have made your way here, and signed up for an account, and now post comments, you are, almost by definition, not a "Newb" anymore.  And oddly, the real newbs seldom moan much about prices.  For the truly new-to-the-hobby, $30.00 is the base price they are used to, so they don't sqawk much about the cost. It seems to be only "Olde Pharts"(tm) of many ages who make a fuss about Junk Kits and High Prices.

Couldn't agree more!

 

 

 

Steve

[Ace-Garageguy]

Interesting thing about scanning to reverse-engineer long gone kits...where resin archival copies (or at least stable copies) of long-ago warped-beyond-recognition or crumbled-to-dust acetate promos exist, even those could be brought back in styrene.

I've paid what many would consider insane money to acquire a few Modelhaus resin models of promo subjects that haven't been available for decades, and if they were available as styrene repops, I'd buy multiples.

But again, the target demographic that would buy models of cars from the 1950s is shrinking daily, so it's time to get on the stick if it's going to happen.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[GMP440]

On 8/20/2022 at 1:50 PM, Dpate said:

So in other words......Be lazy and slap a price tag of $40 whap bam thank ya mam

  Yes,  that's the cost effective way to do it.

[GMP440]

On 8/20/2022 at 2:35 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

People go to McDonalds expecting exactly what they get, and believe me, nobody wants to pay $10.00 for a Big Mac meal either, but that's what you're gonna pay.

Round-2, (as the name clearly states) is a company devoted to returning old kits from days gone by to the market.......which is exactly what they do, and exactly what I expect.

 

I always have to laugh when I hear people complain about kit quality and expect every new kit to be a modern marvel, and then in the very next breath, start moaning about prices.

You get what you pay for, and if you don't think that's the case, it's a pretty easy operation to close your wallet.

 

If Round-2 can continue to do business, and make a profit with what they're currently doing, then that's what they're going to do.

It's not their concern to make every critic happy.

If they can make enough people happy to continue to operate and make a profit, their doing it right.

 

 

 

 

Steve 

 

 

 

 

  Steve, you hit the nail right on the head.  I just wanted to add that this is the most cost effective way for Round 2 to release subjects that we have been requesting for years.

[GMP440]

On 8/24/2022 at 11:15 AM, stavanzer said:

Back on thread.

I suspect that the success of the last two years of the re-scanned kits, has probably moved the needle at Round2. We do not see or hear what is going on, but I am sure that there are lively discussions behind the scenes about what kits may be suitable for a re-scan/clone procedure.

What kits might sell, what kits are good enough to get by with just a re-scan of a body or minor parts to complete the kit, or whether it is a Full Bore, Total Cloning of a subject that does not exist in the Tool Bank anymore. It is a delicate balancing act, and if you have not run a small business, a tricky one , as well. And, Remember that by business standards, Round2 IS a small business. I'll guess that my last employer (with 75 trucks and a payroll of 850 people, a comparatively small trucking company.) was an order of magnitude larger than Round2. So, there is a constant struggle to Meet the Bills, Develop and Deliver Product, Please Customers, maybe have a bit of Fun at work, and lastly, Turn some Profit.  If you cannot do these things, there is no reason to be in business.

But we are all adults here. We all work for, or own a business. None of these fiscal realities are new or unknown to anybody on this board.  Yet, Grown-A55 Adults rip on Round2 like they have never paid a bill, run a household or had to make a spending choice between "Needs" and "Wants". It is sometime quite depressing.......

I get it. Few of us here are under 40. We all grew up on 10 Dollar & 20 Dollar kits. Paying over Thirty Bucks for a kit that you have sitting on a shelf at home with a $9.99 Price tag from K-mart can be a bit galling.  But, This one has fresh (not 30 year old styrene) Newer, Better Decals, and Pad Printed Tires (almost every time). And, as other have mentioned, you paid 3.99 per gallon for gas to get to the store.  "That was Then, This is Now". Those times and that economy are not coming back.  

As far a quality of tooling, kit subjects ect.  Pocher, Ebbro, Beemax, NuNu, and Tamiya all make greatly detailed,  World Class kits. Enough Detail to satisfy most anybody. There is an aftermarket that sells items that improve, already great kits, so you can take them to the next level. So, the details are there. You just have to pay for them. And, there is the nub of the trouble. We don't want to pay for those things.. We say we do, but, when it comes time to open the wallet, many folks can't do it, or won't do it without squealing like a stuck pig.  Like they say about any form of Motorsport.. (How Fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to Spend?) 

Revell and Round2 and Atlantis and Italeri and Salvinos are entry level modeling. Many Builders are happy to stay at this level for years. (I know I am), and it can be very rewarding. It is still a cheap hobby, when compared to others.  If you want to push your limits, buy Resin parts, then move up to Resin Bodies, then Resin Trans-kits, and then off you go! Then, step up to more expensive and better kits. You can choose where on the ladder you want to build.

But, stop moaning about Champagne Prices on a Beer Budget. If you have made your way here, and signed up for an account, and now post comments, you are, almost by definition, not a "Newb" anymore.  And oddly, the real newbs seldom moan much about prices.  For the truly new-to-the-hobby, $30.00 is the base price they are used to, so they don't sqawk much about the cost. It seems to be only "Olde Pharts"(tm) of many ages who make a fuss about Junk Kits and High Prices.

  My response to the 3rd and 4th statements in paragraph 5.  That's exactly the difference between the military modelers and the car modelers.  

[Oldcarfan27]

On 8/24/2022 at 8:15 AM, stavanzer said:

Back on thread.

I suspect that the success of the last two years of the re-scanned kits, has probably moved the needle at Round2. We do not see or hear what is going on, but I am sure that there are lively discussions behind the scenes about what kits may be suitable for a re-scan/clone procedure.

What kits might sell, what kits are good enough to get by with just a re-scan of a body or minor parts to complete the kit, or whether it is a Full Bore, Total Cloning of a subject that does not exist in the Tool Bank anymore. It is a delicate balancing act, and if you have not run a small business, a tricky one , as well. And, Remember that by business standards, Round2 IS a small business. I'll guess that my last employer (with 75 trucks and a payroll of 850 people, a comparatively small trucking company.) was an order of magnitude larger than Round2. So, there is a constant struggle to Meet the Bills, Develop and Deliver Product, Please Customers, maybe have a bit of Fun at work, and lastly, Turn some Profit.  If you cannot do these things, there is no reason to be in business.

But we are all adults here. We all work for, or own a business. None of these fiscal realities are new or unknown to anybody on this board.  Yet, Grown-A55 Adults rip on Round2 like they have never paid a bill, run a household or had to make a spending choice between "Needs" and "Wants". It is sometime quite depressing.......

I get it. Few of us here are under 40. We all grew up on 10 Dollar & 20 Dollar kits. Paying over Thirty Bucks for a kit that you have sitting on a shelf at home with a $9.99 Price tag from K-mart can be a bit galling.  But, This one has fresh (not 30 year old styrene) Newer, Better Decals, and Pad Printed Tires (almost every time). And, as other have mentioned, you paid 3.99 per gallon for gas to get to the store.  "That was Then, This is Now". Those times and that economy are not coming back.  

As far a quality of tooling, kit subjects ect.  Pocher, Ebbro, Beemax, NuNu, and Tamiya all make greatly detailed,  World Class kits. Enough Detail to satisfy most anybody. There is an aftermarket that sells items that improve, already great kits, so you can take them to the next level. So, the details are there. You just have to pay for them. And, there is the nub of the trouble. We don't want to pay for those things.. We say we do, but, when it comes time to open the wallet, many folks can't do it, or won't do it without squealing like a stuck pig.  Like they say about any form of Motorsport.. (How Fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to Spend?) 

Revell and Round2 and Atlantis and Italeri and Salvinos are entry level modeling. Many Builders are happy to stay at this level for years. (I know I am), and it can be very rewarding. It is still a cheap hobby, when compared to others.  If you want to push your limits, buy Resin parts, then move up to Resin Bodies, then Resin Trans-kits, and then off you go! Then, step up to more expensive and better kits. You can choose where on the ladder you want to build.

But, stop moaning about Champagne Prices on a Beer Budget. If you have made your way here, and signed up for an account, and now post comments, you are, almost by definition, not a "Newb" anymore.  And oddly, the real newbs seldom moan much about prices.  For the truly new-to-the-hobby, $30.00 is the base price they are used to, so they don't sqawk much about the cost. It seems to be only "Olde Pharts"(tm) of many ages who make a fuss about Junk Kits and High Prices.

Very well said, Alan.

On 10/20/2022 at 5:11 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Making miniature animal sculptures from dried snot balls?

It does seem that lately, I'm having a problem finding putty that sticks to dried snot balls.

Maybe I'll post it in the "Modeling Questions". 😉

Anybody know where I can get resin parts and photo etch for these projects?

[bobthehobbyguy]

On 8/24/2022 at 8:15 AM, stavanzer said:

Back on thread.

I suspect that the success of the last two years of the re-scanned kits, has probably moved the needle at Round2. We do not see or hear what is going on, but I am sure that there are lively discussions behind the scenes about what kits may be suitable for a re-scan/clone procedure.

What kits might sell, what kits are good enough to get by with just a re-scan of a body or minor parts to complete the kit, or whether it is a Full Bore, Total Cloning of a subject that does not exist in the Tool Bank anymore. It is a delicate balancing act, and if you have not run a small business, a tricky one , as well. And, Remember that by business standards, Round2 IS a small business. I'll guess that my last employer (with 75 trucks and a payroll of 850 people, a comparatively small trucking company.) was an order of magnitude larger than Round2. So, there is a constant struggle to Meet the Bills, Develop and Deliver Product, Please Customers, maybe have a bit of Fun at work, and lastly, Turn some Profit.  If you cannot do these things, there is no reason to be in business.

But we are all adults here. We all work for, or own a business. None of these fiscal realities are new or unknown to anybody on this board.  Yet, Grown-A55 Adults rip on Round2 like they have never paid a bill, run a household or had to make a spending choice between "Needs" and "Wants". It is sometime quite depressing.......

I get it. Few of us here are under 40. We all grew up on 10 Dollar & 20 Dollar kits. Paying over Thirty Bucks for a kit that you have sitting on a shelf at home with a $9.99 Price tag from K-mart can be a bit galling.  But, This one has fresh (not 30 year old styrene) Newer, Better Decals, and Pad Printed Tires (almost every time). And, as other have mentioned, you paid 3.99 per gallon for gas to get to the store.  "That was Then, This is Now". Those times and that economy are not coming back.  

As far a quality of tooling, kit subjects ect.  Pocher, Ebbro, Beemax, NuNu, and Tamiya all make greatly detailed,  World Class kits. Enough Detail to satisfy most anybody. There is an aftermarket that sells items that improve, already great kits, so you can take them to the next level. So, the details are there. You just have to pay for them. And, there is the nub of the trouble. We don't want to pay for those things.. We say we do, but, when it comes time to open the wallet, many folks can't do it, or won't do it without squealing like a stuck pig.  Like they say about any form of Motorsport.. (How Fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to Spend?) 

Revell and Round2 and Atlantis and Italeri and Salvinos are entry level modeling. Many Builders are happy to stay at this level for years. (I know I am), and it can be very rewarding. It is still a cheap hobby, when compared to others.  If you want to push your limits, buy Resin parts, then move up to Resin Bodies, then Resin Trans-kits, and then off you go! Then, step up to more expensive and better kits. You can choose where on the ladder you want to build.

But, stop moaning about Champagne Prices on a Beer Budget. If you have made your way here, and signed up for an account, and now post comments, you are, almost by definition, not a "Newb" anymore.  And oddly, the real newbs seldom moan much about prices.  For the truly new-to-the-hobby, $30.00 is the base price they are used to, so they don't sqawk much about the cost. It seems to be only "Olde Pharts"(tm) of many ages who make a fuss about Junk Kits and High Prices.

Think it's time to return to the original topic.

Yup I think this sums this up well.

In addition I think it also depends on how much work it would be to modify the existing tooling whether it is economically feasible.