robdebie Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) Recently I obtained the Lindberg 'Dodge L700 Tanker' model (73072), so I could finally start work on building a 'Duel' truck. I'm using the 1984 FSM drawing by James Stevens as my main reference, plus the 'Building The 'Duel' Truck Pt 2 - Scratch Building The Tanker Trailer' video by TrekWorks, and screenshots from the movie. I started the construction of the tank, but ran into a problem at the front. The kit has a faceted shape on the lower side, but I want to make it a elliptical shape, since that shape can be seen when the truck is down in the ravine. I plan to cut out the faceted part, and replace it with curved plastic card - not a big problem. My question is: what are the most likely cross-sections at various points? The real tanker-trailer has an eliptical shape front to back, judging from the shapes of the front and back bulkheads. The Stevens drawing has the same cross eliptical cross sections at both ends, and a slope behind the hitch, that can be seen in the movie. Therefore the shape in the middle should be a modified elipse. Does a dip in the middle make sense, for draining the tanks for example? However, this screenshot suggests flatter front section. So, alternatively, the rear half of the tank could have a constant cross section, and the section above the hitch is an elipse flattened at the bottom side. I've drawn it here: The reason why I'm afraid to make a mistake is that the trailer might be too high for the truck's hitch, leading to an inclined trailer. And I don't have the truck yet to make a test fit. Maybe someone with real-world tank trailer experience knows? Thanks in advance! Rob Edited October 12, 2022 by robdebie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) I don't have your answer, 'cause I just don't know...but I sure applaud your dedication to getting the technical details right. Edited October 12, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972coronet Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 FWIW, there were two different tractor-trailers used in Duel: 1.) First T/T was used in the footage of the 1971 Movie of the Week 2.) Replacement T/T was used in the additional footage for the 1972 theatrical release Being more of a car geek, I'd only noticed the different Valiants used (one 1970, one 1971, and one 1972; all in red, and all with 1971-only wheel covers). Apparently, there were two different tankers used in addition to two different models of Peterbilt's (see image) Are you planning to build the Valiant as well? models (see image). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdebie Posted October 12, 2022 Author Share Posted October 12, 2022 7 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: I don't have your answer, 'cause I just don't know...but I sure applaud your dedication to getting the technical details right. Thanks! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdebie Posted October 12, 2022 Author Share Posted October 12, 2022 29 minutes ago, 1972coronet said: FWIW, there were two different tractor-trailers used in Duel: 1.) First T/T was used in the footage of the 1971 Movie of the Week 2.) Replacement T/T was used in the additional footage for the 1972 theatrical release I've done a lot of homework, especially on this forum, and I plan to build the 281 with the 'first' tank trailer. The James Stevens 1984 FSM drawing of the 'first' trailer appears to be fairly accurate, although I don't fully understand the sloping bottom, as explained above. No plans yet for a Valliant! I wouldn't know where to start, to be honest. Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIPTROIT 71 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 The only difference between a 281 and a 351 is that a 281 is single drive and a 351 is tandem drive. The 281 used in the movie was an older model, notice the drip channel across the front. The newer cab in the added scenes doesn’t have that. The surviving Duel truck that Brad Wike has is a 281 but it has been converted to a tandem drive. I’m pretty sure that Brad’s truck originally had a Page and Page set up like the crashed Duel truck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdebie Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 I'm at this stage now. I made a 70 mm long 'straight elliptical' section at the front, and a 100 mm section at the rear. But I'm still very much in doubt about which of the two layouts the real tank trailer had. This shot from the YouTube video 'aVLOGinauto - Duel truck behind the scenes and ride-along' makes me think that the front end was a flattened ellipse. But of course it's a replica. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIPTROIT 71 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) I have some more pictures of the surviving truck. In this picture it looks like the bottom of the front is rounded if you zoom in. This is the only picture that I have on my phone. I have more that might help at home if you need them. Edited October 13, 2022 by DRIPTROIT 71 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer1984 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 I used the trailer body from Keystone with the Lindberg frame and thought it did a good job of capturing the feel if not the exact details of the trailer. Still, it might be something to consider as a starting point. Like you, I was afraid of the angle looking wrong or (worse still) keeping an axle off the ground, so I hinged the whole rear of the frame. It's completely hidden by the trailer body, but allowed for last-minute adjustments and has enough slack to make sure every axle is on the ground. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdebie Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 Here are two screenshots of the tank trailer in the ravine, at the end of the movie. It's 100% clear that the bottom side is curved, i.e. part of an elliptal shape. In a previously posted photo, it is easy to see that the bottom of the tank slopes down, from a point behind the hitch, to the 'skirts' with doors: What I cannot figure out is how that sloping section fits in the James Stevens drawings. That drawing has the same ellipses front and back. So if there's a sloping bottom, the center must be a taller ellipse. It could be that the center of the tanks dips down, like this. Maybe that is common on tank trailers? I did a bit of research of current tank trailers, and they don't have it, only tank trailers for concrete. The alternative explanation is that the drawing has an error, and that the front of the tank is a modified, lower ellipse, as drawn here. In both drawings, I made a flat / horizontal area above the hitch. But maybe the slope continues all the way to the front. There are crossbeams welded on the monocoque tank, and they could take care of that slope, and create a horizontal hitch area. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdebie Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 hours ago, DRIPTROIT 71 said: I have some more pictures of the surviving truck. In this picture it looks like the bottom of the front is rounded if you zoom in. This is the only picture that I have on my phone. I have more that might help at home if you need them. Brian, many thanks, that is an excellent photo! It allows the projection of an ellipse on it, if only for the left side of the photo (right side of the tank's front bulkhead). It strongly suggests that the ellipse was flattened at the bottom. Only question is: how accurate is this replica? Is it the exact same tank trailer as in the movie, or was it modified to resemble the movie trailer? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRIPTROIT 71 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 minute ago, robdebie said: Brian, many thanks, that is an excellent photo! It allows the projection of an ellipse on it, if only for the left side of the photo (right side of the tank's front bulkhead). It strongly suggests that the ellipse was flattened at the bottom. Only question is: how accurate is this replica? Is it the exact same tank trailer as in the movie, or was it modified to resemble the movie trailer? Rob This was one of the actual trucks and trailers bought and built for the movie. I am not sure that either got any actual screen time though. It is a genuine survivor though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdebie Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, spencer1984 said: I used the trailer body from Keystone with the Lindberg frame and thought it did a good job of capturing the feel if not the exact details of the trailer. Still, it might be something to consider as a starting point. Like you, I was afraid of the angle looking wrong or (worse still) keeping an axle off the ground, so I hinged the whole rear of the frame. It's completely hidden by the trailer body, but allowed for last-minute adjustments and has enough slack to make sure every axle is on the ground. Bill, I found your model just today, on Youtube! A fantastic model, my hat's off. And know I know your website too, with lots of photos and explanation. I have some reading to do! Until today I did not know about the Keystone 3D printed tank trailer! Maybe that's a good thing, because it probably would have become very expensive before I got in my hands, due to shipping, customs and taxation.. Welcome to the Netherlands! Plus I butchered the Lindberg kit so much that there's no way back 🙂 Rob Edited October 13, 2022 by robdebie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spencer1984 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, robdebie said: Bill, I found your model just today, on Youtube! A fantastic model, my hat's off. And know I know your website too, with lots of photos and explanation. I have some reading to do! Until today I did not know about the Keystone 3D printed tank trailer! Maybe that's a good thing, because it probably would have become very expensive before I got in my hands, due to shipping, customs and taxation.. Welcome to the Netherlands! Plus I butchered the Lindberg kit so much that there's no way back 🙂 Rob Haha, fair points! 🙂 I was happy to see the Keystone option after many years of monkeying around trying to figure it out like what you're doing now, so just wanted to throw it out there. And thank you, much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdebie Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 24 minutes ago, DRIPTROIT 71 said: This was one of the actual trucks and trailers bought and built for the movie. I am not sure that either got any actual screen time though. It is a genuine survivor though. That is excellent news! I had wanted to mention that I did not look into the history of that trailer. This could be the bit of information I was looking for! Back to the drawing board. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repstock Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, 1972coronet said: Edited October 13, 2022 by Repstock Bad picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Repstock Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 23 hours ago, 1972coronet said: Are you planning to build the Valiant as well? models (see image). If he builds the Valiant, I'll have the wheel covers: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdebie Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) Based on the above, I decided to change the ellipse on the front side by taking off 5-6 mm on the lower side. I removed the sheet of plastic card that I glued on earlier, modified the plastic card bulkheads, and glued on a new piece of plastic card. Two more large pieces of sheet were glued on the bottom of the tank, and it was finally closed. I still need to change the curvature of the front bulkhead. The decrease in height towards the front can be seen here. I will admit the effect is fairly subtle. On the rear side, I made a 17 degree canted cut, and glued on another piece of plastic card. The rear bulkhead will need more more work, since it is bulged on the real thing. Next is an extensive round of adding filler. Rob Edited October 14, 2022 by robdebie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972coronet Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 On 10/12/2022 at 4:29 PM, robdebie said: No plans yet for a Valliant! I wouldn't know where to start, to be honest Should you desire building the 1971 Valiant (1970-1972 were all similar appearance-wise), you could use the following kits: - Revell 1968 Dart (basic body, converted to a 4 door sedan) - AMT 1971 Duster 340 (front clip) - Resin Duster/Valiant grille (Harts Parts), as the one in the AMT Duster is for the 340 model, and is unique to that model - AMT Rat Packer et alia Nova (for the rear clip, which approximates the shape of the Valiant sedan) - 1971 Plymouth 'W11' wheel covers (as offered by @Repstock) Engine choice could be either the 225 six from the Deora custom or the Lindberg Dodge 330/ Plymouth Belvedere (the Deora has the correct automatic transmission attached), or the Duster's 340 engine with a two barrel carburetor and a resin Torqueflite. No small task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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