MCW semi-gloss interior light grey....weird phenomenon

[Dpate]

Okay I'm going to try and explain this the best i can, because I' am not sure as to why this happened and with this specific color as it hasn't happened with any of there other colors or any other type of paint or brand.  So I'm getting ready to use the light grey interior color on the interior tub (which was primed) bottle was mixed good and used pipette to put good bit into the color cup. Using a Iwata eclipse brush and was deep cleaned day before the use of paint.  Anyways i start spraying the inside of the interior tub mainly the door card sides and rear seat, and as I'm painting i start seeing thin web like material little on the outside of the tub just floating.  So i just blow it away thinking hmm maybe long piece of lent or something - so i get back to painting and than i continue to see it coming out from the inside of the tub.  So I'm like what in the F is going on lol, and i start looking at the door cards and rear seat and it looks like the inside of a cotton candy bowl(Pic below).  I'm like so that's where it's coming from the air from the brush is blowing some of it out, and it was even on the end of my brush.  

So it looked horrible and using a brush would remove some of it but ended up leading to a strip. So i test on some spoons and did 3 spoons all 3 ended up with the stringy web like material but small, and now I'm like sigh okay lets clean out the air brush again cause maybe the shop towel lint maybe stuck some where and contaminating the paint.  Clean out airbrush 100% and couldn't find any lent etc.  Fast forward  I'm 6 test spoons down with this wild phenomenon happening -So i tried one last thing, and that was to really make sure the paint was mixed, and strain the paint.  So i mix the paint this time the best it'll ever get mixed and than used my AK colorcup paint strainer, and then got out 3 more white spoons.  Sprayed all 3 spoons 100% perfect not a single cotton candy web like stuff or anything. 

So now i ask the question - how & why did this happen? This light grey cotton candy phenomenon lol.  Has this happened to anyone else with any type of paint? How could straining the paint maybe of fixed the issue? I'm lost,  confused, and puzzled ?????????? 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Dpate

[LL3 Model Worx]

One or a combination of 3 things...

1: Too little thinner

2: Spraying too far way

3: Spraying too high psi

Usually one or a combo of these three to get the cobweb going. I've seen guys do it 1:1 more than a few times.

 

[Dpate]

10 minutes ago, LL3 Model Worx said:

One or a combination of 3 things...

1: Too little thinner

2: Spraying too far way

3: Spraying too high psi

Usually one or a combo of these three to get the cobweb going. I've seen guys do it 1:1 more than a few times.

 

I spray it the same way i do all there other interior colors bout 2 inches away around 18-20 PSI, and there already pre-thinned doubt he sent a bottle with not enough thinner lol.  But after mixing it even better and straining it the effect stopped same pressure same distance etc.  It's not cobweb in the paint, but it's actually on the surface like the cotton candy pic. But just think of like how dust webs can get in a corner of a wall and you touch it.  That's this effect going on not actual spider webbing in the paint. Thank you for the suggestions though.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Dpate

[LL3 Model Worx]

Yea, I didn't mean crazing or "spiderwebbing" I meant exactly what you are talking about. Like throwing cobwebs on the piece.

It literally could have been you didn't have it mixed enough.

And it could actually be it needed more thinner... some colors depending on solids content and other factors require more thinner to atomize correctly... depending on temperature and humidity.

I've done it myself with hvlp spraying black semigloss lacquer on a guitar body.

 

 

 

[Exotics_Builder]

28 minutes ago, Dpate said:

I spray it the same way i do all there other interior colors bout 2 inches away around 18-20 PSI, and there already pre-thinned doubt he sent a bottle with not enough thinner lol.  But after mixing it even better and straining it the effect stopped same pressure same distance etc.  It's not cobweb in the paint, but it's actually on the surface like the cotton candy pic. But just think of like how dust webs can get in a corner of a wall and you touch it.  That's this effect going on not actual spider webbing in the paint. Thank you for the suggestions though.

I had that happen when using Bob's paints Creme Brulee color.  I followed the thinning guideline, and my test shots got the webbing until I thinned it much more.  I use an Iwata Eclipse at about 20 PSI.  I think this effect was due to the pearl material in the paint.  At least that is my guess.  

 

[Can-Con]

Yuo, I had some do that too. 

Mine was some touchup paint from the Honda dealer. Just needed a bit more thinner.

[LL3 Model Worx]

Like I said earlier, it happens alot. We just see it less because most of the stuff we shoot comes pre reduced (like alot) and has far less solids content than 1:1 paint.

Even the guys that are repackaging and selling 1:1 paint aren't using high end high solids products for the most part... If they were, we would be paying ALOT more.

My wife's Camry got hit in the door... (it was a new car at the time) 1 pint of base coat was nearly $500... "Galactic Aqua Mica"

 

[Dpate]

1 hour ago, LL3 Model Worx said:

Yea, I didn't mean crazing or "spiderwebbing" I meant exactly what you are talking about. Like throwing cobwebs on the piece.

It literally could have been you didn't have it mixed enough.

And it could actually be it needed more thinner... some colors depending on solids content and other factors require more thinner to atomize correctly... depending on temperature and humidity.

I've done it myself with hvlp spraying black semigloss lacquer on a guitar body.

 

 

 

Yes that's what I'm leaning on more too is i didn't mix it good enough.  I just mixed it with good ole shaking instead of using my badger mixer or four E's mixer, but 2nd time i mixed it i used the four E's mixer along with straining it and the cotton candy effect was gone at least on the test spoons.  But I' am gonna test more and keep the pose updated. Thank you for your help!

1 hour ago, Exotics_Builder said:

I had that happen when using Bob's paints Creme Brulee color.  I followed the thinning guideline, and my test shots got the webbing until I thinned it much more.  I use an Iwata Eclipse at about 20 PSI.  I think this effect was due to the pearl material in the paint.  At least that is my guess.  

 

1 hour ago, Can-Con said:

Yuo, I had some do that too. 

Mine was some touchup paint from the Honda dealer. Just needed a bit more thinner.

Gonna do more testing before thinning. I think mixing it better the 2nd time let the thinner and pigment combine better.  If i do have to thin what thinner do you recommend for MCW paint? 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Dpate

[LL3 Model Worx]

9 hours ago, Dpate said:

Yes that's what I'm leaning on more too is i didn't mix it good enough.  I just mixed it with good ole shaking instead of using my badger mixer or four E's mixer, but 2nd time i mixed it i used the four E's mixer along with straining it and the cotton candy effect was gone at least on the test spoons.  But I' am gonna test more and keep the pose updated. Thank you for your help!

Gonna do more testing before thinning. I think mixing it better the 2nd time let the thinner and pigment combine better.  If i do have to thin what thinner do you recommend for MCW paint? 

 

You are very welcome. 

I would personally recommend using Klean strip or the equivalent lacquer thinner.... NOT "paint thinner". 

I'm personally all for folks repackaging 1:1 paint and selling it to us in hobby sized containers even if it is expensive per oz... convenience isn't free. 

However, that being said I do believe that paying good money for a 2oz jar of thinner is absolutely bonkers... I mean unless you just like the look of the bottle and label 🤣 I use more than 2oz of thinner just cleaning my airbrush...

[Dpate]

Well same thing happened with the MCW paint.  Goes perfect on the spoon, but soon as i went for the interior tub it happened again just not as bad as it did the first time.  I did add a little bit of leveling thinner to it, and same thing happened just not as bad.  I may need to thin it some more, but i was able to easily clean it up this time unlike the first time.  I'm going to contact the owner of MCW and let him know about the situation too, because i got 3 other interior colors along with the light grey and i haven't tried the other 3 yet so I'm hoping they wont do the same.  It's no probable thinning i do it all the time, but i paid with shipping $45 for 4 paints i shouldn't have to be thinning anything that is already suppose to be pre-thinned perfectly.  

[LL3 Model Worx]

17 minutes ago, Dpate said:

Well same thing happened with the MCW paint.  Goes perfect on the spoon, but soon as i went for the interior tub it happened again just not as bad as it did the first time.  I did add a little bit of leveling thinner to it, and same thing happened just not as bad.  I may need to thin it some more, but i was able to easily clean it up this time unlike the first time.  I'm going to contact the owner of MCW and let him know about the situation too, because i got 3 other interior colors along with the light grey and i haven't tried the other 3 yet so I'm hoping they wont do the same.  It's no probable thinning i do it all the time, but i paid with shipping $45 for 4 paints i shouldn't have to be thinning anything that is already suppose to be pre-thinned perfectly.  

If you are spraying into a boxed in interior tub (assembled sides) I wonder if a small "vortex" is happening in there and causing the paint to flash mid air.

Try thinning and turning down your pressure more. Or just dialing back pressure.

It Is definitely flashing mid air but the question is why?

[Rick L]

 Shooting into the tub does indeed create a vortex, very much like a cotton candy machine, partially curing the paint from the back pressure created by shooting into the tub. LL3 is spot on with his answer.

 

[Dpate]

1 hour ago, LL3 Model Worx said:

If you are spraying into a boxed in interior tub (assembled sides) I wonder if a small "vortex" is happening in there and causing the paint to flash mid air.

Try thinning and turning down your pressure more. Or just dialing back pressure.

It Is definitely flashing mid air but the question is why?

Probably will have to thin it more. Doesn’t do that with Tamiya LP or primer etc. It did do it in the seat too now that I remember right in the middle where the seat can fold, but that was easy to clean.  I did try knocking the PSI down to 15, but that didn’t work either that’s before i thinned a little.  Usually my hobby room is 34 humidity and 77-78F, but today it was 50 humidity and 77F.  He does recommend only wet coats with his paint, but I like to build up the coats before I do a wet coat. But doesn’t matter how I spray it the Cotton candy effect or spider webs still happen.  I’m guessing his paint just doesn’t like close spaces like interior tubs etc anywhere there is close space. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Dpate

[LL3 Model Worx]

30 minutes ago, Dpate said:

Probably will have to thin it more. Doesn’t do that with Tamiya LP or primer etc. It did do it in the seat too now that I remember right in the middle where the seat can fold, but that was easy to clean.  I did try knocking the PSI down to 15, but that didn’t work either that’s before i thinned a little.  Usually my hobby room is 34 humidity and 77-78F, but today it was 50 humidity and 77F.  He does recommend only wet coats with his paint, but I like to build up the coats before I do a wet coat. But doesn’t matter how I spray it the Cotton candy effect or spider webs still happen.  I’m guessing his paint just doesn’t like close spaces like interior tubs etc anywhere there is close space. 

Yea its the turbulence of the air inside that space I bet you... I could be wrong though...

[Ace-Garageguy]

The upside is that now you know how to make really cool Halloween spider webs...just in time.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO

[LL3 Model Worx]

10 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

The upside is that now you know how to make really cool Halloween spider webs...just in time.

Where did you get a picture of my mother in law?

[Dave G.]

I've said it before, I don't like that MCW lacquers are thinned with a fast drying lacquer thinner for the automotive paints. Seems counter intuitive that he used fast thinner for auto paints and slower for military. I contacted him on this to see if I can get paints with the slower thinner and never got a reply. I like to slow my lacquers down if anything not speed them up..

I make out much better with Tamiya LP and Mr Leveling thinner. The thing is IMO it's the only correction MCW lacquers need besides pricing structure. I can generally make do without them honestly. And also they have the enamel line now which I have not tried.

[LL3 Model Worx]

31 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

I've said it before, I don't like that MCW lacquers are thinned with a fast drying lacquer thinner for the automotive paints. Seems counter intuitive that he used fast thinner for auto paints and slower for military. I contacted him on this to see if I can get paints with the slower thinner and never got a reply. I like to slow my lacquers down if anything not speed them up..

I make out much better with Tamiya LP and Mr Leveling thinner. The thing is IMO it's the only correction MCW lacquers need besides pricing structure. I can generally make do without them honestly. And also they have the enamel line now which I have not tried.

I've sprayed auto paint 1:1 my entire life...also haven't dealt with MCW.

I'm betting the reason for using the fast/hot thinner would be he is getting a deal on it because almost no one uses it 1:1 unless you are in a very cold climate.

It could very well be he is using 5 gallon cans of "cleanup" thinner... wich is a lot cheaper than color grade thinner per gallon. It also happens to be very hot.

If you use it these days to spray 1k lacquer primer 90% of the time the primer won't adhere and you can literally blow it all off with an air hose. Ive seen it too many times.

So yea, it's likely a cost saving measure, wich is nuts when you consider what he's charging.

[Dpate]

45 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

I've said it before, I don't like that MCW lacquers are thinned with a fast drying lacquer thinner for the automotive paints. Seems counter intuitive that he used fast thinner for auto paints and slower for military. I contacted him on this to see if I can get paints with the slower thinner and never got a reply. I like to slow my lacquers down if anything not speed them up..

I make out much better with Tamiya LP and Mr Leveling thinner. The thing is IMO it's the only correction MCW lacquers need besides pricing structure. I can generally make do without them honestly. And also they have the enamel line now which I have not tried.

Yeah I have no issue with other paints inside interior tubs.  I like MCW interior paints cause there nice, and do look the part when it’s on.  They seem to just not like being sprayed in tight spots or the cob webs will start happening.  I think this is why he recommends spraying wet coats and talks about how it’s difficult to make it run, but with a .5 needle and spraying wet coats I can make it run lol.  If there sprayed on regular parts that aren’t close together the paints go on beautifully, and dry super quick. I think in future builds I’ll remember to thin the paint even more when spraying all in one interior tubs.  

[Dave G.]

28 minutes ago, LL3 Model Worx said:

I've sprayed auto paint 1:1 my entire life...also haven't dealt with MCW.

I'm betting the reason for using the fast/hot thinner would be he is getting a deal on it because almost no one uses it 1:1 unless you are in a very cold climate.

It could very well be he is using 5 gallon cans of "cleanup" thinner... wich is a lot cheaper than color grade thinner per gallon. It also happens to be very hot.

If you use it these days to spray 1k lacquer primer 90% of the time the primer won't adhere and you can literally blow it all off with an air hose. Ive seen it too many times.

So yea, it's likely a cost saving measure, wich is nuts when you consider what he's charging.

Could be. I shot 1/1 for 35 or more years and never used fast thinner for lacquer at all in any situation in New England. I stocked Dupont 3661 medium dry in 5 gal containers or other brand equivalent ( I remember a generic put out at the time by Providence Lacquer that worked just as well). . I don't know if Dupont even offers this product anymore but there are others out there. Even Kleen Strip is listed as medium dry if you dig into the fine print far enough. But it's still faster than I recall. Mr Leveling Thinner is closer. Mike touts his thinners are high quality though.

But I saw a video in which Mike from MCW stated the auto colors have fast thinner and military slower thinner, to me with the glosses used in auto models this is silly. Honestly I'd prefer he sent it uncut and thin it myself. But fast thinner could well explain the cotton candy effect in the interior tub within this thread. I'd be temped to put in a few drops of retarder if the paint has any more room for thinning, the ones I've used are might thin already..   Just sayin

[Dpate]

1 hour ago, Dave G. said:

Could be. I shot 1/1 for 35 or more years and never used fast thinner for lacquer at all in any situation in New England. I stocked Dupont 3661 medium dry in 5 gal containers or other brand equivalent ( I remember a generic put out at the time by Providence Lacquer that worked just as well). . I don't know if Dupont even offers this product anymore but there are others out there. Even Kleen Strip is listed as medium dry if you dig into the fine print far enough. But it's still faster than I recall. Mr Leveling Thinner is closer. Mike touts his thinners are high quality though.

But I saw a video in which Mike from MCW stated the auto colors have fast thinner and military slower thinner, to me with the glosses used in auto models this is silly. Honestly I'd prefer he sent it uncut and thin it myself. But fast thinner could well explain the cotton candy effect in the interior tub within this thread. I'd be temped to put in a few drops of retarder if the paint has any more room for thinning, the ones I've used are might thin already..   Just sayin

Probably is the thinner in the paint.  Probably why I had a horrible time with his grabber orange gloss lacquer awhile back. I do have tamiya lacquer retarder, but I also have plenty Mr hobby leveling thinner #1 stable in my hobby room. I didn’t thin it much when I did thin it though probably added half a ML or so. Should be able to thin it little bit more without any damage. 

[LL3 Model Worx]

1 hour ago, Dave G. said:

Could be. I shot 1/1 for 35 or more years and never used fast thinner for lacquer at all in any situation in New England. I stocked Dupont 3661 medium dry in 5 gal containers or other brand equivalent ( I remember a generic put out at the time by Providence Lacquer that worked just as well). . I don't know if Dupont even offers this product anymore but there are others out there. Even Kleen Strip is listed as medium dry if you dig into the fine print far enough. But it's still faster than I recall. Mr Leveling Thinner is closer. Mike touts his thinners are high quality though.

But I saw a video in which Mike from MCW stated the auto colors have fast thinner and military slower thinner, to me with the glosses used in auto models this is silly. Honestly I'd prefer he sent it uncut and thin it myself. But fast thinner could well explain the cotton candy effect in the interior tub within this thread. I'd be temped to put in a few drops of retarder if the paint has any more room for thinning, the ones I've used are might thin already..   Just sayin

Yea, makes no sense on the fast thinner thing to me either...

As you know the slower, the more time it has to level and prevent orange peel. Which is mainly a problem with high gloss paints, not so much flats...

Seems he has done it right the opposite of how it should be.

[Dave G.]

5 hours ago, Dpate said:

Probably is the thinner in the paint.  Probably why I had a horrible time with his grabber orange gloss lacquer awhile back. I do have tamiya lacquer retarder, but I also have plenty Mr hobby leveling thinner #1 stable in my hobby room. I didn’t thin it much when I did thin it though probably added half a ML or so. Should be able to thin it little bit more without any damage. 

I used his Washington Blue lacquer on a 1/16 Model A and really could have done better with Tamiya acrylic X4 blue with a touch of red added. I used the X1 black on the fenders and they came out awesome. The Washington blue just needed a slower thinner, the color itself was dead on. I don't think he was producing the enamels yet when I shot that body. There were a couple of issues to where I wet sanded and re-shot it. It's just not for me is best I can say.

[Dpate]

16 hours ago, Dave G. said:

I used his Washington Blue lacquer on a 1/16 Model A and really could have done better with Tamiya acrylic X4 blue with a touch of red added. I used the X1 black on the fenders and they came out awesome. The Washington blue just needed a slower thinner, the color itself was dead on. I don't think he was producing the enamels yet when I shot that body. There were a couple of issues to where I wet sanded and re-shot it. It's just not for me is best I can say.

Yeah i stopped using his automotive body colors I just like his interior & engine colors.  Automotive colors i will use scalefinishes, gravity colors(spain), splash, zero, and tamiya LP & TS.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Dpate

[stavanzer]

And now you guys understand why some of us "casual" modelers stick with Spray Cans and Brushes... LOL

The Upside to Airbrushes vs the learning curve and expense just does not pencil out for some of us. Solving Chemistry Problems for my Hobby Enjoyment is not a part of the pleasure.