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A detailed review of Round 2 upcoming product introductions from the 2022 NNL Motor City


tim boyd
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On 11/17/2022 at 2:40 PM, Snake45 said:

Once again, y'all can thank me for the AWB '65 Chevelle. (Previous wins: '64 Nova and '66 Mustang 2+2.)

In 2020-21, I spent a stupid amount of $$$$ acquiring three or four glue bombs of this kit, hoping to "restore" them. After carefully examining my purchases, I decided that with a lot of work, I could probably get ONE together out of the backbirth mess, and with even more labor, MIGHT be able to make TWO. 

Now I'll be able to use all those parts to cobble together one chassis to "restore" the one I built in 1967 to "barn find/survivor" status, and build up a nice new one for a great "Skills Then and Now" display. 

I hope Round 2 restores all the Chevelle's original body emblems and trim (as the original AWB kit had). If they do, it will be possible to un-alter the wheelbase on this kit and come up with a MUCH superior '65 Chevelle body than the Revell kit's. Or, better yet, maybe they'll eventually give us a stock-bodied Craftsman-type kit. Oh joy, oh joy! :D

65ChevelleAWBs03.jpg.8d00af482cb82df127f2e4ee3682fe7c.jpg

65ChevelleAWBs06.jpg.c602b820cbbe25ad75fb27dcef33130c.jpg

 

 

Two that immediately come to mind will be the Delmar Heinatt Seaton's Shaker and Malcolm Durham's Strip Blazer AWB Chevelles.  These will be great in my collection.

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21 minutes ago, Luc Janssens said:

Here an idea for Round2 for a sibling of the Chevelle

Is that an image of Charles Bukowski on the right door? 

Okay, kidding aside: I have noticed a few fellow members here enquiring about the '65 AWB Chevelle's hopefully having all of the scripts and emblems engraved (as per the original? I've nothing to compare Tim's shared images to). Ostensibly, there aren't any emblems etc. on the prototype in the photos from @tim boyd [see Tim's original post] -- maybe if Round2 has created a stock version of the AWB, and that one may include the factory scripts. 
Just a supposition on me part. 

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On 11/17/2022 at 3:23 PM, lordairgtar said:

Some might not like the fact that the 68 GTO will be a curbside. It is easy enough to open up that hood and graft a Chevelle engine bay to it.

If Round2's recent cloned curbsides are any indication, it will already have an opening hood and will later be offered as a full detail in annual type format 

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On 11/18/2022 at 12:43 PM, Oldcarfan27 said:

I'm excited about the list of new releases. 

Steve, I do have apprehensions about the 68 GTO. The side window openings look a little wonky and those Rally IIs don't look any deeper than current issues. 

I'm disappointed the 65 GTO only has dog dishes, when Tim said hubcaps, I was thinking full hubcaps. Not every muscle car came with "doggies" and "rallies". In fact, very few did! Most had hubcaps - common full hubcaps. What ever happened to wheel covers?

The Rally IIs are same as the original promo except slots molded open.  If there's any issue with the side window openings then it was also on the original, but I'm not seeing it.  The Rally I's will be a wheel option in the 68 GTO too.  An open headlight grille may appear is a later issue, adding it now would put me behind schedule and over budget. 

The 65 GTO will have three wheel options. Original Rally Is, Steelies with the poverty caps or open steel wheels as the proper front - rear hub and lug details are there.  To attach the hub caps you open a blind hole on the back of the steel wheels and attach the hub cabs with a center mounted pin inside the hub cap, easy-peasy. 

I supposed I could have made the one year only 65 Lemans - GTO full wheel covers or even the 64-66 Wire covers but I believe the poverty hub caps will have more appeal and are way overdue to be done in 1/25th scale in my opinion. 

-Steve

 

 

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My late older brother owned a '65 GTO in 1980..it was gold w/ a black interior, had wheelcovers IIRC. I remember what a nice interior it had.. I have old photos somewhere.   Slotted wheelcovers like this perhaps..  I remember riding in that car (I was 10 at the time) w/ my brother & my Dad and hearing on the radio that Steve McQueen had passed.  My brother was upset, he had been a big fan... it was brother's 2nd Pontiac after a '74 Firebird Formula 400 (dark blue w/ blue & white interior). 

65gto.jpg

Edited by Rob Hall
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5 hours ago, SteveG said:

...I believe the poverty hub caps will have more appeal and are way overdue to be done in 1/25th scale in my opinion. 

-Steve

Steve, very glad to see the poverty caps included.  Of course there's no pleasing everyone, but I agree that those offer more appeal overall.

Since Pontiac used these same hubcaps through the early '70s (I think?), they can be used for many other years of GTO's.  I believe they were also used on 1st gen Firebirds, so lots of possible uses beyond just the '65 Goat.

Edited by Robberbaron
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On 11/20/2022 at 2:19 PM, Robberbaron said:

Steve, very glad to see the poverty caps included.  Of course there's no pleasing everyone, but I agree that those offer more appeal overall.

Since Pontiac used these same hubcaps through the early '70s (I think?), they can be used for many other years of GTO's.  I believe they were also used on 1st gen Firebirds, so lots of possible uses beyond just the '65 Goat.

Should work on the '68 GTO also.   They look so good w/ steelies and dds, esp. in dark colors, IMO...

 

2-1617634371426.jpg

IMG_0464-scaled.jpg

Edited by Rob Hall
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I'd rather see the standard wheelcovers than hubcaps on the '65 or '68.  At least around the Detroit area, I don't recall seeing hubcaps on anything other than a stripped Tempest.  You would occasionally see the wire wheelcovers, but most drove down to a tire store and bought aftermarket wheels such as Cragar S/S, Appliance or (rarely) Hurst.   

Poverty caps are all the rage on Mopars.  Back in the day, those were usually seen only on taxicabs or Valiants.  Like the GTO, no one around here drove a GTX, Coronet R/T or 500, Super Bee, Road Runner, Charger, Challenger or Barracuda with those.  I had a teacher with a Sport Satellite that had the standard wheelcovers, and they looked okay.  

I think it's a generational thing.  Those who weren't alive or too young to remember how the cars were back then tend to be the ones who prefer hubcaps.   

 

 

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3 hours ago, Motor City said:

I'd rather see the standard wheelcovers than hubcaps on the '65 or '68.  At least around the Detroit area, I don't recall seeing hubcaps on anything other than a stripped Tempest.  You would occasionally see the wire wheelcovers, but most drove down to a tire store and bought aftermarket wheels such as Cragar S/S, Appliance or (rarely) Hurst.   

Poverty caps are all the rage on Mopars.  Back in the day, those were usually seen only on taxicabs or Valiants.  Like the GTO, no one around here drove a GTX, Coronet R/T or 500, Super Bee, Road Runner, Charger, Challenger or Barracuda with those.  I had a teacher with a Sport Satellite that had the standard wheelcovers, and they looked okay.  

I think it's a generational thing.  Those who weren't alive or too young to remember how the cars were back then tend to be the ones who prefer hubcaps.   

 

 

Interesting comments, Jim.  Back then, many of us bought cars with the cheapest wheels and cheapest radio (or even better, no radio), as once we got a few monthly payments under our belt, we went to Gratiot Auto Supply or Discount Tire and bought white letter 60's or '70's, along with the cheapest aftermarket wheels we could find, and then went to the local stereo store to buy a Pioneer underdash stereo/tape deck and Utah 6x9 co-axial/bass reflex speakers for the package tray. 

What I found amusing was that the husband of one of my Adminstrative Assistants had a 'primo '73 Road Runner 340 that was a near visual twin to my '74 E58/360, and he was running (as of about ten years ago), steel wheels with Mopar hubcaps.  It did look sharp, except that '73/'74 Road Runners came standard from the factory with 14x6 Mopar Rallye Wheels with trim rings.  Pie pans and steelies were not even available on those models at all! 

Still, I'm on board with Steve's decision to go with the hub caps on the GTO....viva la difference, I guess...TB 

TB   

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7 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

Interesting comments, Jim.  Back then, many of us bought cars with the cheapest wheels and cheapest radio (or even better, no radio), as once we got a few monthly payments under our belt, we went to Gratiot Auto Supply or Discount Tire and bought white letter 60's or '70's, along with the cheapest aftermarket wheels we could find, and then went to the local stereo store to buy a Pioneer underdash stereo/tape deck and Utah 6x9 co-axial/bass reflex speakers for the package tray. 

What I found amusing was that the husband of one of my Adminstrative Assistants had a 'primo '73 Road Runner 340 that was a near visual twin to my '74 E58/360, and he was running (as of about ten years ago), steel wheels with Mopar hubcaps.  It did look sharp, except that '73/'74 Road Runners came standard from the factory with 14x6 Mopar Rallye Wheels with trim rings.  Pie pans and steelies were not even available on those models at all! 

Still, I'm on board with Steve's decision to go with the hub caps on the GTO....viva la difference, I guess...TB 

TB   

same around here - most of the muscle cars were bought new by guys on an after-school grocery store, gas station or parts store paycheck.  Saving a few bucks with the standard hubcaps was important.  Some of the dealers brought the cars in with the tire upgrade so the buyer could take the car straight to TDI to put on a set of Americans or Cragars. Full wheel covers were kind of rare and went to older buyers with more real-world financial obligations.

Preferences change - When these cars are restored 50 years later, they get the original factory steel wheels and hub caps. 

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10 hours ago, tim boyd said:

What I found amusing was that the husband of one of my Adminstrative Assistants had a 'primo '73 Road Runner 340 that was a near visual twin to my '74 E58/360, and he was running (as of about ten years ago), steel wheels with Mopar hubcaps.  It did look sharp, except that '73/'74 Road Runners came standard from the factory with 14x6 Mopar Rallye Wheels with trim rings.  Pie pans and steelies were not even available on those models at all! 

I just had to check (re: standard Rallye Wheels on Road Runner for 1973), and sure as _____ ! I was today years old when I learnt that! The only difference is that they were without trim rings (like the 1971-1972 Duster Twister & 1971 Demon Sizzler). Thanks for the de facto lesson in R.R. wheels for 1973!

73_Satellite13.jpg

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36 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

I just had to check (re: standard Rallye Wheels on Road Runner for 1973), and sure as _____ ! I was today years old when I learnt that! The only difference is that they were without trim rings (like the 1971-1972 Duster Twister & 1971 Demon Sizzler). Thanks for the de facto lesson in R.R. wheels for 1973!

73_Satellite13.jpg

That proves that the Road Runners didn't come with hubcaps. Yet, just about everyone you see has them. I doubt there was much difference in cost between the hubcaps and wheel covers. I seriously doubt that they were preferred over the Road Wheel or the Rallye.

People think that cars came from the factory with wheel covers and hubcaps. They didn't. Those were installed at the dealership. 

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On 11/17/2022 at 11:56 AM, Jordan White said:

What they need to do is just add the Mexican C1500 grille, since they used the GMC grille and put a bowtie in place of the GMC letters!

And the Mexican fuel-injected 250 straight-six. I want one of those trucks simply for the engine.

Charlie Larkin

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36 minutes ago, Plowboy said:

That proves that the Road Runners didn't come with hubcaps. Yet, just about everyone you see has them. I doubt there was much difference in cost between the hubcaps and wheel covers. I seriously doubt that they were preferred over the Road Wheel or the Rallye.

People think that cars came from the factory with wheel covers and hubcaps. They didn't. Those were installed at the dealership. 

Well 73, 74 and I believe 75 had the Rallye wheels without trim rings as standard.   The earlier cars had the poverty caps as standard.  I have a 1970 Roadrunner and it had 14" Rallye wheels but they were an option. 

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On 11/21/2022 at 3:51 PM, Rob Hall said:

Should work on the '68 GTO also.   They look so good w/ steelies and dds, esp. in dark colors, IMO...

 

2-1617634371426.jpg

IMG_0464-scaled.jpg

I have some Blue Charcoal left over from my Grand Prix. This is giving me ideas. Perhaps with the parchement interior.

The '68, maybe the Rally Is in that dark olive green.

Charlie Larkin

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1 hour ago, Plowboy said:

That proves that the Road Runners didn't come with hubcaps. Yet, just about everyone you see has them. I doubt there was much difference in cost between the hubcaps and wheel covers. I seriously doubt that they were preferred over the Road Wheel or the Rallye.

People think that cars came from the factory with wheel covers and hubcaps. They didn't. Those were installed at the dealership. 

The earlier -1968-1972- Road Runner came shod with hubcaps standard. The coveted Rallye Wheels were none-the-less stamped steel just like the base models' "steelies"; the centre caps were "pig metal" unlike the anodised aluminium hubcaps -- a cost savings for certain. Truly, IMO, the Rallye Wheels look better sans trim rings. 

I've long been a fan of 'steelies-with-hubcaps', many, many decades before they became popular. Each manufacturer's hubcaps (and wheel covers) had unique designs, even for the strippo models. Among me favourites (to cite a few examples):

- 1969-1975 Dodge and Plymouth

- 1967-197? Ford F-250/F-350 (that crown in the centre always fascinated me)

- 1975-1983 Ford Econoline and F-series 100/150

- 1970-1971 Dodge 'W11'

- 1971 Plymouth 'W11' 

You're correct that those -excepting the latter two- wheels and caps were typically ditched early in the cars' careers; dumped in favour of Cragars, Ansens, Spyders, Keystones, etc., etc. And, yes, oftentimes a dealership would upgrade a base model's hubcaps to either deluxe wheel covers (colloq., "full hub caps") or "Magnum 500" (a misnomer when applied to any of the Dodge/Plymouth 14" iterations, whose nomenclature was "Road Wheels"), typically to quickly move less popular vehicles (1969 Daytona, 1970 Superbird) and 1969 Hemi models in the wake of the recall of the W27 cast wheels (15" wheels were "mandated" for Hemi models for 1969 by Chrysler; after the recall, many so-equipped cars received the 14" Road Wheels or, in lesser instances, 15" wheel covers from the Monaco/Polara et al.).

Other than more pedestrian models/ police cars/taxis/fleets, it was unusual to see a GTO, Charger, Cutlass, et alia, with its standard wheels. 

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Never ever did I see a 1973 or 1974 RR with Rallye Wheels but no trim rings.  The reference for '73 cited above by John is legit Mopar literature; I need to research 1974 and see if it changed for that year.  

And in case there is any doubt, to the best of my knowledge there was no way to factory order a '73 or '74 RR with hub caps or wheel covers.  For '73 yor could get as an option 14x6 Road Wheels (e.g. Magnum 500 lookalikes) or 15x7 Rallye wheels, for 1974 you could get 14x6 Road Wheels or different 15 x 6 (I think) C-Body Road Wheel exclusively paired with radial tires that year.  I do not believe the Mopar wire wheel covers were an option those two years, but need to verrify that. 

Thanks all....TB  

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15 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

Never ever did I see a 1973 or 1974 RR with Rallye Wheels but no trim rings.  The reference for '73 cited above by John is legit Mopar literature; I need to research 1974 and see if it changed for that year.  

And in case there is any doubt, to the best of my knowledge there was no way to factory order a '73 or '74 RR with hub caps or wheel covers.  For '73 yor could get as an option 14x6 Road Wheels (e.g. Magnum 500 lookalikes) or 15x7 Rallye wheels, for 1974 you could get 14x6 Road Wheels or different 15 x 6 (I think) C-Body Road Wheel exclusively paired with radial tires that year.  I do not believe the Mopar wire wheel covers were an option those two years, but need to verrify that. 

Thanks all....TB  

Here's the 1974 dealer (internal) literature for the 1974 Satellite [et al.] models' wheels (see link). A customer of the parts store where I worked had a 1974 Road Runner with the standard 318 (with the unique-to-the-model dual exhaust) 4-speed [!!] which he special ordered (literature states that the 4-speed was available with the 318 as an option, but no one would order it for him... he had to "Go miles away to find a dealership that would accommodate me") new in late '73. Its 14"x7" Rallye Wheels were sans trim rings: "Never had them", he told me when I enquired about them.
It was a beauty, in JA5 Silver Frost with black interior and stripes!
Maybe the dealerships added them post-facto, or the line workers tossed 'em in the trunk (they were dealer-installed during PDI) and no one thought much of their presence. 

74_Satellite_8.jpg

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Thanks John for posting the 1974 data.  I ordered the Exterior Decor Group on my '74 RR which apparently was also the source of the trim ring upgrade.  I recall that many of the 1/1'73 and '74 RR's out there had the Exterior Decor Group, but some did not and still had the trim rings.  As you said, maybe a dealer upgrade, maybe assembly line mistakes, but I clearly recall this as I thought the lack of trim rings on the 1969 GTO Judge was a really dumb move on their part, and that view carried over to other manufacturers who did the same thing later, including mother Mopar on the Duster Twister and Dart Demon/Sport equivalents....  TB

PS - Bill Coulter - yes that Bill Coulter - also owned a factory ordered '74 RR 318 with factory duals (as I recall, the 318 duals was rated at 170 net hp vs. 150 for the single exhaust non-RR 318)....Bill's was an automatic, also black with both exterior and interior decor groups like mine but with white stripes; quite a show in Tom Woodruff's Jackson Center OH driveway when we both met there for models meets prior to the start of the NNLs...you can just get a glimpse of his RR in the background of the middle picture here...

bill coulter tom woodruff tim boyd l

 

PPS = my '74 RR E58 about six months after I took delivery in December of 1973....and just before the first of several sets of mags ...

tim's 1-1 cars001

Edited by tim boyd
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1 hour ago, tim boyd said:

PS - Bill Coulter - yes that Bill Coulter - also owned a factory ordered '74 RR 318 with factory duals (as I recall, the 318 duals was rated at 170 net hp vs. 150 for the single exhaust non-RR 318).

Correct amundo. Not sure how dual exhaust "added" 20hp vs. the single exhaust 318, but... Not sure why that didn't carry over to the 318-powered Charger Rallye. 

Another little-known fact is that, unless one ordered power windows, the rear glass was fixed (i.e., hardtop vs. coupe) on '74 & '74 Road Runners. I wasn't aware of that until I noticed that most of the 1973-1974 R.R. (and, likely, the base Satellite two door) carried the "21" bodystyle vs. the "23" (hardtop).

IIRC, Bill Coulter built the Hustlin' Hemi Dart from the MPC 1969 Charlie Allen F/C and the MPC 1969 Barracuda; this was in 1969, IIRC (I saw the article in a 1983 or 1984 issue of SAE).

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The literature posted above showing the optional and standard wheels, wheelcovers, hubcaps, and steering wheels mentions what was available for each model.  One of the models mentioned is the Satellite Sebring Plus, a model only available in 1971 and 1972.  Either the literature wasn't updated for the '73 model year or what was posted earlier is for '71 or '72.

The Judge was originally intended to be a stripper model like the Road Runner.  I think Delorean changed the marketing for it just before he went to Chevrolet as its general manager.  The early Trans Am also came without trim rings.

My El Camino has trim rings, but I'd rather not have them since the wheel paint gets scratched up whenever they have to be removed/replaced.  My Regal had Buick's chrome-plated rallye wheels, which I thought were much better looking.

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