Salvino's JR - '71 Petty Plymouth

[dwc43]

22 minutes ago, TooOld said:

I noticed that when I fit the engine into the chassis , looks like Salvino's may have missed this .  I've looked at a couple of finished models on line and they both have the tube/caps modified to sit much lower . Haven't decided yet how to handle this .

Well, I had some ideas. It's supposed to be rubber hoses on the valve cover area, can you angle the tube forward to drop it, or cut down the "rubber" area and lower the whole assembly? Looking at your pics, it may already be on the distributor. Might have to file a flat spot on the bottom of it to clear the distributor. I doubt it would be noticeable after completion. 

[TooOld]

If you look near the end of HPI Guy's video on You Tube he angled his down for clearance and it looks terrible , not only that but there would be no way to add oil to the engine !  If you look at the pre-production one Art Laski built he's cut down the caps (and maybe the tubes) , funny that neither of them mention this . 

I installed the engine again and used a strip of rectangular stock to measure the clearance , I bent a slight curve in the plastic to match the inside of the hood . 

In this photo you can see that the fill caps need to be lowered 3/32" to achieve zero clearance , clearance at the tubes right now isn't measurable . 

Here's another angle .  Shortening the tubes at the valve covers and/or grinding the tops of the caps would probably be enough to fix this . On the right you can see there is currently 1/16" clearance at the carburetor , when I install the air filter housing the hood will just barely close and it does hit .  

I'm going to look closer at modifying the tubes and caps . I also think another alternative would be to lower the engine by modifying the crossmember , if doable this would solve everything . 

Edited January 12, 2023 by TooOld

[dwc43]

32 minutes ago, TooOld said:

If you look near the end of HPI Guy's video on You Tube he angled his down for clearance and it looks terrible , not only that but there would be no way to add oil to the engine !  If you look at the pre-production one Art Laski built he's cut down the caps (and maybe the tubes) , funny that neither of them mention this . 

I installed the engine again and used a strip of rectangular stock to measure the clearance , I bent a slight curve in the plastic to match the inside of the hood . 

 

In this photo you can see that the fill caps need to be lowered 3/32" to achieve zero clearance , clearance at the tubes right now isn't measurable . 

Here's another angle .  Shortening the tubes at the valve covers and/or grinding the tops of the caps would probably be enough to fix this . On the right you can see there is currently 1/16" clearance at the carburetor , when I install the air filter housing the hood will just barely close and it does hit .  

 

I'm going to look closer at modifying the tubes and caps . I also think another alternative would be to lower the engine by modifying the crossmember , if doable this would solve everything . 

I see your problem there. I'd almost want to try lowering the engine a bit. But, your oil pan might be too close to the frame already. Hard to say from that pic angle with the tape on it too. By the way, those filters Petty used are actually factory push on filters used on stock valve covers. They knew how to save money. All those are for is to vent fumes from the engine since it does not have a pcv system like street cars use. We use two of those K and N type filters on the left side of our valve covers on our race cars. The oil is added to the engine from the valve cover tube. That engine is not correct anyways. By this time, they were using dry sump oil pans. I'll attach a pic and you can just see the oil tank in the LF fender well by the firewall and two hoses running from the tank over the frame just behind the shocks to the oil pump on the left front of the engine. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by dwc43

[TooOld]

3 hours ago, dwc43 said:

I see your problem there. I'd almost want to try lowering the engine a bit. But, your oil pan might be too close to the frame already. Hard to say from that pic angle with the tape on it too. By the way, those filters Petty used are actually factory push on filters used on stock valve covers. They knew how to save money. All those are for is to vent fumes from the engine since it does not have a pcv system like street cars use. We use two of those K and N type filters on the left side of our valve covers on our race cars. The oil is added to the engine from the valve cover tube. That engine is not correct anyways. By this time, they were using dry sump oil pans. I'll attach a pic and you can just see the oil tank in the LF fender well by the firewall and two hoses running from the tank over the frame just behind the shocks to the oil pump on the left front of the engine. 

I should have remembered they were breathers . . . my memory gets a little fuzzy these days . I have that photo and a few more showing the oil tank and battery mounting and I plan on adding those also .  The oil pan in the kit is flat like a dry sump and rests directly on the crossmember but there's enough material that some can be removed from the crossmember to lower the engine maybe 1/16" or so . That along with modifying the "breathers" should solve the issues . 

[dwc43]

1 hour ago, TooOld said:

I should have remembered they were breathers . . . my memory gets a little fuzzy these days . I have that photo and a few more showing the oil tank and battery mounting and I plan on adding those also .  The oil pan in the kit is flat like a dry sump and rests directly on the crossmember but there's enough material that some can be removed from the crossmember to lower the engine maybe 1/16" or so . That along with modifying the "breathers" should solve the issues . 

Sounds like you got it figured out. Can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[Lowlife ! !]

 

Very nice build so far Bob, I'm learning a lot so far !

Looks like a great kit I might try building one myself ...

[Straightliner59]

I just found this thread. Excellent work, Bob! I love cars from that era of NASCAR. The houndstooth seat cover is a very cool, unique feature. Looking forward to watching the rest of this project!

[TooOld]

On 1/13/2023 at 7:07 AM, Straightliner59 said:

I just found this thread. Excellent work, Bob! I love cars from that era of NASCAR. The houndstooth seat cover is a very cool, unique feature. Looking forward to watching the rest of this project!

Thanks Daniel !

[TooOld]

While taking a closer look at modifying the crossmember I found that the engine still wouldn't go any lower because the front header tubes would hit so I chose a more radical option of replacing the entire crossmember . Doing this I can lower the engine and eliminate any chances of interference later on . . . one less thing to worry about .

A simple crossmember was fabricated using the front suspension as a guide . The suspension is still removable so everything can be painted . 

With the engine installed and the body back on another check was done . Plenty of clearance and no other modifications are needed !

And the hood closes just fine . 

It was probably overkill but in this case I felt it was the best option . If I were to build another one I'd address this while building the engine and save myself a lot of time and headaches . 

Edited January 16, 2023 by TooOld

[Pierre Rivard]

Not overkill, you are addressing what the kit designer should have done right in the first place. Great fix!

[dragcarz]

Loving this build!

[TooOld]

On 1/16/2023 at 6:22 PM, Pierre Rivard said:

Not overkill, you are addressing what the kit designer should have done right in the first place. Great fix!

It needed to be fixed I just meant the way I did it was a bit extreme .

2 hours ago, dragcarz said:

Loving this build!

Thanks Roger !

[TooOld]

Made a little more progress by modifying the firewall to add an oil tank , battery , and the air intake .  

And a shot with everything set in place , nothing is glued so it may be a little crooked .  The oil tank is just a block of plastic with a couple brackets and fittings added , not 100% accurate but it will barely be seen when it's all finished . The battery is a resin one I had laying around . I think the small piece that joins the air intake to the housing will make a big difference in the appearance of the finished model . 

 

[dwc43]

2 minutes ago, TooOld said:

Made a little more progress by modifying the firewall to add an oil tank , battery , and the air intake .  

And a shot with everything set in place , nothing is glued so it may be a little crooked .  The oil tank is just a block of plastic with a couple brackets and fittings added , not 100% accurate but it will barely be seen when it's all finished . The battery is a resin one I had laying around . I think the small piece that joins the air intake to the housing will make a big difference in the appearance of the finished model . 

 

That looks awesome.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Nice work to solve the issue of the breather valves sticking up too high. The Salvinos' '71/72 Charger kits look to have near identical chassis and engines - with the same breather pipes - so this solution should apply to more than one kit. 

[MarkJ]

I have noticed that the Salvino NextGen Camaros hood will not fit flush if the air cleaner is installed. Thats why I did not install it but place it on top of the engine to take under hood shots. I keep it in the model case off of the engine when displaying the model. I am going to try to fix it on the Nextgen Camaro I am now building. I have seen a few finished Camaro's that the hood does not fit flush. I guess those builders are okay with it.

[TooOld]

On 1/19/2023 at 10:07 PM, Johnny Canuck said:

Nice work to solve the issue of the breather valves sticking up too high. The Salvinos' '71/72 Charger kits look to have near identical chassis and engines - with the same breather pipes - so this solution should apply to more than one kit. 

It should work on the Chargers too . Just remember that lowering the engine will cause the headers to hit the crossmember which is why I made a new one , you could just cut some notches in it to clear the headers .  I also filed a flat spot on the transmission and it's crossmember to lower it too , this keeps everything almost level . The driveshaft and exhaust still fit and look normal but the tie-rod will need to be replaced/modified because of the lower oil pan .

 

[TooOld]

I did a quick mock-up of the engine compartment to make sure everything fits and there's no interference between parts , it's pretty tight but looks like all's okay . I've modified the radiator adding a cap , added dual coils , and added a starter solenoid to the firewall .

That's about all I can do before paint so it's time to move on to the interior and chassis . 

Edited January 26, 2023 by TooOld

[TooOld]

When I started back on this yesterday I realized that the master cylinder in the kit is wrong . All of the photos I've seen have an early single reservoir master cylinder mounted on a reinforcement plate of some kind , so I spent an hour or so fabricating one .

Here's the firewall with the new parts in place .

Edited January 27, 2023 by TooOld

[Dave Van]

Adding detail and refining parts is what a modeler does. You did a great job. BUT this much work needed to get the kit together is wrong. Modern CAD design will alert the designer to issues before the firs 3D test print. I know......start my own model company, Salvinos has already told me that...I did and my models did not have this many issues.  My 2 cents....and worth both pennies. 

[MarkJ]

All the attention to detail is really working out nicely. I like all your doing to make the build more authentic. Are the hood hinges something you came up with or is that oob? 

[TooOld]

6 hours ago, Dave Van said:

Adding detail and refining parts is what a modeler does. You did a great job. BUT this much work needed to get the kit together is wrong. Modern CAD design will alert the designer to issues before the firs 3D test print. I know......start my own model company, Salvinos has already told me that...I did and my models did not have this many issues.  My 2 cents....and worth both pennies. 

Thanks Dave !  I agree with what you are saying but just about every kit I've built has had some kind of issue regardless of the manufacturer . I'm so used to modifying things that when there is an issue like the hood clearance I just deal with it and move on , it's part of the hobby . . . just me I guess .

If I had a complaint it would be the old MPC style chassis and suspension but even that won't keep me from buying another kit from them . 

[TooOld]

5 hours ago, MarkJ said:

All the attention to detail is really working out nicely. I like all your doing to make the build more authentic. Are the hood hinges something you came up with or is that oob? 

Thanks Mark ! I never planned on the extra detailing , it just sort of happened . I've been making hinges using brass rod & tubing for many years , usually attaching them to the underside of the body . Because of the way this kit is designed I had to mount the hood hinge inside the dash/firewall , it actually worked out very well !

[Dave Van]

22 minutes ago, TooOld said:

Thanks Dave !  I agree with what you are saying but just about every kit I've built has had some kind of issue regardless of the manufacturer . I'm so used to modifying things that when there is an issue like the hood clearance I just deal with it and move on , it's part of the hobby . . . just me I guess .

If I had a complaint it would be the old MPC style chassis and suspension but even that won't keep me from buying another kit from them . 

These 'ALL NEW' CAD designed kits should not have the same issues that kits made from masters carved by hand from wood blocks!!  I'm not down on Salvinos alone.....Any all new CAD designed kits should be BETTER ....not perfect. Moebius is all CAD desin and if you have built a Hudson they are very 'Tamiya' like.....more so than the Salvinos kits so far. I hope the continue to bring new and BETTER kits to market. 

[Force]

The front of the chassis on this kit is not correct for a Mopar Cup car from this era, by that time they used a fabricated front section with a special K-member to clear the dry sump oil pan and get the engine as low as possible, only the modified steering linkage goes under the oil pan.

They also used a different engine mount than the OEM style.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Force