29-31 Ford Firewall Question

[Calb56]

I don't know what they're called but those outward indentations on the firewall, any ideas on how to scratchbuilding them? In kit bashing the firewall I ended up having to sand them down smooth. Is it worth the effort or...? (Image of 1:1).

[gman]

You can use styrene half round stock for the thin ribs, and trim the basic shape of the center portion out of styrene flat stock, laminate them to the fire wall with liquid cement...once the cement is dry, blend the shapes and knock the corners down to round and shape them with sanding sticks and sandpaper. Shoot a couple of coats of primer over top, then massage the shapes some more. Primer, then paint.

[RSchnell]

That firewall is for 30- pre June '31 when they moved the fuel shutoff valve from inside the car to under the hood. 28-29 is different, and even then there are two different firewalls for 28-29, dependent on body. 

I thing Greg's method he posted would work quite well!

[Calb56]

22 minutes ago, RSchnell said:

That firewall is for 30- pre June '31 when they moved the fuel shutoff valve from inside the car to under the hood. 28-29 is different, and even then there are two different firewalls for 28-29, dependent on body. 

I thing Greg's method he posted would work quite well!

Will need to research more, I used the firewall from the Revell 31 Woody, because I'm adapting the chassis and most of the suspension from it.

I'll post a picture when I get home of the damage done...

[ctruss53]

I would use the half round styrene strip method like mentioned above.

I did this same thing when replacing the raised body line on a hot rod body and it worked really well.

If the half round shape is too "pronounced" you can sand it down a bit so it has a flatter top.

[Ace-Garageguy]

What a lot of people who are newish to old-school hot rods miss sometimes is the fact that the 1928-'29 bodies are entirely different from the 1930-'31, including the firewall stampings, which don't interchange.

Don't feel bad. They're similar, and the chassis and engines are really almost identical for all 4 years of Model A (except for somewhat esoteric technical details).

The '28-'29 cars look more T-like, with a pronounced 'coach line' detail on the cowl ahead of the door...

...while the '30-'31 cars are getting to look more modern, closer to the one-year-only '32 "Deuce", with higher body sides and hood line, and more sweeping, more deeply molded fenders.

EDIT: The general design of the stock '28-'29 firewall is a very different beast from the '30-'31 shown in the OP's post above.  

Edited March 22, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Calb56]

49 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

EDIT: The general design of the stock '28-'29 firewall is a very different beast from the '30-'31 shown in the OP's post above.  

I had finally found a couple images during my break also, so just as well I had sanded it smooth. Yep, some scratchbuilding ahead.

[Calb56]

He points to himself. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

19 minutes ago, Calb56 said:

...He points to himself. 

No. It takes a while to get to know even the basics of these old cars, and it's a never ending learning experience...and nobody knows it all unless he's spent pretty much his entire life immersed in one make of car.

I only know enough to know how much I don't know, but in general, where to go to get the answers.

And that's why, for the most part, there are no "stupid questions".

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people willing to help and to share what they've learned.

There's no shame in not knowing something, but there's plenty of stupid in pretending you know when you really don't. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Calb56]

8 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

No. It takes a while to get to know even the basics of these old cars, and it's a never ending learning experience...and nobody knows it all unless he's spent pretty much his entire life immersed in one make of car.

I only know enough to know how much I don't know, but in general, where to go to get the answers.

And that's why, for the most part, there are no "stupid questions".

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people willing to help and to share what they've learned.

There's no shame in not knowing something, but there's plenty of stupid in pretending you know when you really don't. 

I get it. I rather ask than not if I don't know something and there's a whole lot that I don't know.

[Tabbysdaddy]

They all look alike to me. 

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

They all look alike to me. 

Sure can't argue with that, eh?   

[stavanzer]

There have been several books written by "Model T" Cognoscenti just on the differences between cars. With 15 Million made there are thousands of Changes in the the years from 1908-1927. Many of those books are quite large.

On the subject of Model A Fords and Deuces I'd be willing to bet there has been just as much written. I'm a Model T fanatic myself, so Model A's are not really in my wheelhouse, but you could study either car for the rest of your life, and still run across new & surprising things. Even now, over 100 years after the T was built, there are still new discoveries made about features and manufacturing anomalies that turn up, in contravention of what "Everybody Knows".

So Take heart. Even the so-called "Experts" are proven wrong about things that "Everybody" knows to be true.

Keep learning and have fun. Only Sweat the Details when they are important to YOU.

[Tabbysdaddy]

41 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Sure can't argue with that, eh?   

I can't even tell the make on most stuff older than '55.

[stavanzer]

21 minutes ago, Tabbysdaddy said:

I can't even tell the make on most stuff older than '55.

That's funny.

I can't tell the make on anything newer than about 2000, without having to resort to looking for emblems or badges.

Older stuff is much easier for me.

[Tabbysdaddy]

7 minutes ago, stavanzer said:

That's funny.

I can't tell the make on anything newer than about 2000, without having to resort to looking for emblems or badges.

Older stuff is much easier for me.

Yeah, my sweet spot is about '55-'99 so I'm with you there.

[stavanzer]

Mine is about 1910 to 1990 really. And that is due Mostly to Tad Burness and his books.

Edited March 23, 2023 by stavanzer

[R. Thorne]

1 hour ago, stavanzer said:

There have been several books written by "Model T" Cognoscenti just on the differences between cars. With 15 Million made there are thousands of Changes in the the years from 1908-1927. Many of those books are quite large.

On the subject of Model A Fords and Deuces I'd be willing to bet there has been just as much written. I'm a Model T fanatic myself, so Model A's are not really in my wheelhouse, but you could study either car for the rest of your life, and still run across new & surprising things. Even now, over 100 years after the T was built, there are still new discoveries made about features and manufacturing anomalies that turn up, in contravention of what "Everybody Knows".

So Take heart. Even the so-called "Experts" are proven wrong about things that "Everybody" knows to be true.

Keep learning and have fun. Only Sweat the Details when they are important to YOU.

The Socratic Paradox:  “I know that I know nothing”.  Not to be confused with the Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

[gman]

There is "accurate to the model/year" and there is "accurate to what you want to represent."

For an absolutely stock model, you'd want to be as close as possible to what the vehicle rolled off ol' Henry's production line with. For a hot rod, well people have been modifying those since they were practically new, with many reasons for those modifications- accommodations to fit larger engines/bellhousings/transmissions, modifications for clearance or custom parts.

If you spend hours looking at photos of Model A's you'll find many ways to skin that cat. Those ribs were originally stamped into the firewall to add rigidity to the panel. On many Model A's today, very little remains of the original firewall, so anything could technically be called correct for representing a hot-rodded example. Stuff in enough engine/intake and add parts like a firewall-mounted remote oil filter, regulator and fuel block and there is a good chance that you won't see much firewall under the hood ;).

 

 

[Calb56]

I want to thank everyone for the information and insight received regarding my question. I'm building a 29 4 banger for the TRoG California Drags build and it was pointed out that early hot rods had no "rules" and to be honest I'm doing a build representing a car built on a 90+ year old car using parts that were available approximately 60 years ago. So not making excuses but it isn't a "restoration" but rather an old hot rod. So, I guess it's solely up to me how "fiddly" I want to be on a detail which in all likelihood will only bother me or if I want to finish this build.

Thanks again everyone!