A new . . . . Hornet?!

[1972coronet]

[sfhess]

6 hours ago, Rob Hall said:

The NUMMI plant is in Fremont, in the SF East Bay Area.   It is now owned by Tesla. 

I don't think they ever built Camaros there.  Camaros and firebirds were built in Van Nuys, CA (San Fernando Valley) for several years.

Too many of these threads criticizing vehicles some people don't like.

If you don't like it, just ignore it.

Edited March 28, 2023 by sfhess

[Rob Hall]

6 hours ago, sfhess said:

I don't think they ever built Camaros there.  Camaros and firebirds were built in Van Nuys, CA (San Fernando Valley) for several years.

Too many of these threads criticizing vehicles some people don't like.

If you don't like it, just ignore it.

I didn’t say anything about Camaros.  Just commenting about where the NUMMI plant is, which came up because of mention of GM’s efforts with Toyota-based models (Nova and Vibe).    Maybe Espo was conflating NUMMI with Van Nuys. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Rob Hall

[charlie8575]

10 hours ago, sfhess said:

I don't think they ever built Camaros there.  Camaros and firebirds were built in Van Nuys, CA (San Fernando Valley) for several years.

Too many of these threads criticizing vehicles some people don't like.

If you don't like it, just ignore it.

From what I remember reading, Fremont built RWD A-/G-Bodies. When GM started having lots of trouble with the union, particularly with quality control, they shuttered the plant, brought in Toyota on a lease, because they needed more room for Corolla production (which is how we got the Corolla-based Nova), and Toyota straightened them out by de-unionizing, and introducing the Toyota Method. GM also wanted to see how Toyota did it, and Toyota would (and still will) freely share their TQM/Six-Sigma/whatever you want to call it now management with any company, in any industry, at no cost. They'll even send a team to you to teach it.

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

19 hours ago, Rob Hall said:

3362 lbs is what I’ve seen. This is a compact.  

For perspective, the 1985-'90-'91 GM FWD C-/H-bodies (Pontiac Bonneville/Olds Delta 88/98/Buick LeSabre/Electra/Cadillac DeVilles and Fleetwoods) weighed about this.

All-wheel-drive, nanny gear and needlessly gigantic wheels and tires add a lot of weight.

Charlie Larkin

[Rob Hall]

24 minutes ago, charlie8575 said:

For perspective, the 1985-'90-'91 GM FWD C-/H-bodies (Pontiac Bonneville/Olds Delta 88/98/Buick LeSabre/Electra/Cadillac DeVilles and Fleetwoods) weighed about this.

All-wheel-drive, nanny gear and needlessly gigantic wheels and tires add a lot of weight.

 

Such it is...vehicles are only going to get heavier as EVs become more widespread... can't go back in time.  Reality keeps moving into the future. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Rob Hall

[peteski]

18 hours ago, espo said:

You mention the GM situation involving GM and Toyota. The Pontiac Vibe was built in a joint factory in the LA area called NUMI. This wasn't their first venture in building a jointly developed car as they did with the Toyota Corolla and some of the Chevrolet cars marketed under the GEO brand. The plant was owned by GM and used to build Camaros. GM couldn't develop and build as well as market a brand-new product as cheaply as they could by pertaining with Toyota. Ford had done this with Mazda in the past, mainly for compact trucks. Chrysler has had a working relationship with Mitsubishi as well. You even have Toyota and Subaru building a sports car, much like Toyota and BMW. To many of the everyday cars in the marketplace today seem like homogenized milk. Any more you just pick the color and two or three equipment levels since they are no longer built as an ala kart like long ago, and who's name you want on the back.  

You're right.  I do remember a Ford Probe being a Mazda derivative, AMC Eagle  and Dodge Stealth being Mitsubishis, I think Dodge Rampage was also Mitsubishi based.  Then of course we go back to the '70s. Didn't GM sell Opel-based cars badged as American brands?  There is no such thing as brand identity.

I knew GEO was not actually made by GM, but I didn't know it was Toyota.  I thought it was some Korean or Chinese made vehicle.

And to all who complain about the Hornet looking crappy, remember that it is actually an Alfa-Romeo and Fiat likely had a hand in its design.

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 hours ago, peteski said:

I knew GEO was not actually made by GM, but I didn't know it was Toyota.  I thought it was some Korean or Chinese made vehicle.

Some Geo vehicles were also made by Suzuki.

I have one. Bought new by a friend, maintained from new by me, "totalled" twice (economic totals, almost no structural damage), now has over 200,000 miles at roughly 40MPG, top speed about 80MPH. Weighs about 1700 pounds, carries two adults and a couple big dogs in back...and is definitely not a car for those who need a vehicle to project a macho image, or worry a lot about "safety".  

EDIT: I always have to laugh out loud at some of the "expert" reviews of this fun little car online. Either they've never driven one, or the example they based their "test" on was entirely worn out...which is actually kind of tough to do to a Geo Metro (unless you just abuse it), as many of the chassis parts and wear parts were sourced from significantly heavier vehicles, so tend to last forever as a result. I'm still on little car's original rear brake shoes.  

EDIT 2: Fun fact...enthusiasm for the Metro grew to almost cult-like status during a 2008 run-up in fuel costs, with Metro XFi models commanding prices near their original sticker prices. Car and Driver even used a 1998 Chevrolet Metro in a fuel mileage comparison with the 2010 Honda Insight and 2010 Toyota Prius. The Metro beat the hybrids.

EDIT 3: My only point in running on about the Metro is that, for the dollar amount the new Hornet depreciates the minute you drive it off the lot, you could have something interesting and unusual.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Rob Hall]

13 minutes ago, peteski said:

 

I knew GEO was not actually made by GM, but I didn't know it was Toyota.  

Some GEO products were Suzuki (Metro and Tracker), Isuzu (Storm), and Toyota (Prizm).   

Edited March 28, 2023 by Rob Hall

[Jon Haigwood]

These new cars always remind me of an old song

"There's a pink one and a green one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same"

[Smoke Wagon]

On 3/27/2023 at 6:04 AM, Rob Hall said:

I doubt if many prospective new car shoppers that would be looking at the new Hornet would be aware of the AMC Hornet, let alone the Hudson Hornet..long time ago..

Of course not, something tells me that most perspective shoppers for this thing will be better equipped to tell you how to make a boba tea drink than care to know the history behind the nameplate.

It might as well say Maytag on the grille, because it’s just a modern-day rolling appliance. There will be a large contingent of Hornet drivers that won’t even bother checking fluids.

[Ace-Garageguy]

11 minutes ago, Smoke Wagon said:

Of course not, something tells me that most perspective shoppers for this thing will be better equipped to tell you how to make a boba tea drink than care to know the history behind the nameplate.

It might as well say Maytag on the grille, because it’s just a modern-day rolling appliance. There will be a large contingent of Hornet drivers that won’t even bother checking fluids.

Which ties in with the lack of a manual gearbox option. Silly to do all the engineering and tooling if you're only going to sell two.  

Far as checking fluids goes, we actually have clients who honestly don't know that's a thing...and they're not all little HS girls.  

Edited March 28, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Rob Hall]

3 hours ago, Jon Haigwood said:

These new cars always remind me of an old song

"There's a pink one and a green one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same"

Except today it would be there's a gray one and a white one, and a silver one and a black one...

Not a new idea, I'm sure some people said cars all looked the same at other points in time...like the late 30s to late 40s--humpy-lumpys that all looked much the same, or the late 20s-early 30s..

[Jon Haigwood]

1 minute ago, Rob Hall said:

Except today it would be there's a gray one and a white one, and a silver one and a black one...

Not a new idea, I'm sure some people said cars all looked the same at other points in time...like the late 30s to late 40s--humpy-lumpys that all looked much the same, or the late 20s-early 30s..

Can't forget the matte OD Green

[Ace-Garageguy]

34 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

...like the late 30s to late 40s--humpy-lumpys...

Boy howdy; there's some styling analysis right there.  

Edited March 28, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Rob Hall]

6 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Boy howdy; there's some styling analysis right there.  

I was going for brevity, and generalizing.  Just like the fogeys do about saying modern vehicles all look the same.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

7 hours ago, Rob Hall said:

I was going for brevity, and generalizing.  Just like the fogeys do about saying modern vehicles all look the same.  

Lotsa old cars looked the same. Lotsa newer cars look the same. What's your point?

It takes real talent to design something that's striking and different but will still sell, and that kind of talent is rare....and "striking and different" rarely sell in large numbers anyway.

The market for most manufactured items is the average Joe/Jolene, not the connoisseur of design, so bland rules...back in the wayback, as well as now.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy
TYPO

[peteski]

My 2005 Scion xB  (aka. Toyota bB) or "the box" or "toaster" was something different among its contemporary run-of-the mill vehicles.  It would still fit that description today.  Whether it was considered attractive or not, that is another subject, but its looks grew on me. I didnt' see it as ugly - just different.  And like the GEO Metro, in a cute sort of a way.

My current 2019 Kia Soul also fits that category. Different, but in a cute sort of a way.  If I was driving in the '70s, I would have enjoyed owing  AMC Gremlin or Pacer (just the looks only, not for reliability).

Edited March 28, 2023 by peteski

[cobraman]

I once heard someone say " It costs no more to make a good looking car than to make an ugly one".

[Jon Haigwood]

I may be interested if they put a Hellcat in it 

[larman]

I saw one in person at the Lehigh Valley Auto Show last week, it didn't seem to be any worse than what the others have to offer. I thought it was neither exciting nor terrible. I think the issue is when companies use the old names with new vehicles, people who remember the original seem to take offense. We are living in a time of "reboots", it may be unimaginative and boring, but the companies already own the rights to this stuff and the crowd they are selling to doesn't even know the first ones existed.

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 hours ago, larman said:

 We are living in a time of "reboots", it may be unimaginative and boring, but the companies already own the rights to this stuff and the crowd they are selling to doesn't even know the first ones existed.

...or how to drive a stick, or change a flat, check their own oil, tell time on a non-digital clock, find Europe on a map (or how to read a map, period), how to figure a tip without an app, change a lightbulb, or cook a meal. And those are the "men".  

I recall when I bought my first 356 Porsche fifty years ago. Half the twinks with the shiny new ones didn't even know the cars were from the same manufacturer.

Nothing much ever really changes. Lotsa geezers have always thought anything old is better, and lotsa younger twits who have no clue about much at all have always thought they knew everything about everything, and have always believed anything new is better...and have written off legitimate criticism of ignorance, mediocrity, and stupidity that transcends generations as the empty ramblings of "fogeys".  

But remember little fellas...in not that long you all are going to be fogeys too. Life is short, and karma can be a real beyotch.  

Edited March 29, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[BlackSheep214]

Looks like like a Dodge crossed with a BMW or Acura

[lordairgtar]

On 3/27/2023 at 9:13 AM, peteski said:

Yes, the negative comments here are very likely from older folks who remember the original AMC Hornet (which was not all that hot either).

It was pretty much a plebian car, but it could be something good. SC360 version for one and the Hornet X V8 hatchback for another. I had the 304 and it was a handler and pretty damned quick. I autocrossed mine and beat others in my class. Mustangs with the 302 were hard to beat though. Similar styled front suspension but Ford got it right.