How Out-of-box is OOBS?

[gowjobs]

Those few that know me here will realize how out-of-character this will be for me, but I'm about to embark on an Out-Of-Box-Stock (OOBS) build. I haven't chosen the easiest subject to do this with, but I figure the Hippie Hemi should be able to be built into a striking enough model without my usual arm-long list of modifications and kitbashed parts.

With the four-piece (upper, lower and two rear wheelwell fillers) body, I'm wondering how much seam-filling I can get away with and still be legal for OOBS. My plan is to build it like a model airplane - painting the chassis/engine/interior, then installing the body around it, filling the seams, masking the openings, and then painting the body before adding the wheels, pipes, etc. to complete the model. I may be able to use only glue to seal the seams, and then sand them smooth, but how much if any filler can I use and still be OOBS?

Another question - I personally have never deducted points for an OOBS build that used BMF, but what are the feelings of the board on BMF and/or flocking on an OOBS build? Are these finishes, like paint, or something out of the realm of an OOBS build?

Thanks,

Dave McGowan

[James W]

I know at some contests, OOBS means constructing the model the way the instructions indicate.

I don't think, however that if the end result is the same that you could be caught for using the wrong 'methode' to build a kit.

How much filler is used to achieve the result the box indicates depends on how accurite the kit is. Just don't add parts from other kits or build stuff that is not in the kit.

BMF is OK, Flocking is over the line. Don't ask me to explain, it is making my head hurt just thinking of a reason.

If you are building for a specific contest, build with those rules within arms reach, otherwise OOBS is just a catch phrase.

These are just humble opinions.

Hope to see pictures in progress.

[bigphoto]

Dave,

As a head judge, you are SOL Seriously though as far as filler is concerned there are a lot of kits that from days

of yore that really needed filler just to make them presentable. Filler is a finishing tool as say paint or glue you are not really

adding an aftermarket item or parts from another kit. So IMHO you should be fine.

[Zoom Zoom]

I agree; BMF is fine, flocking isn't. Even though to me it's a paint technique.

As for filling/assembling a multi-piece body, you are allowed to join the parts together and "finish" the joins. I would assume OOB would also allow filling of sink marks, so as long as you are filling as a finishing technique and not to make any design changes, it's okay. I use a lot of superglue/kicker for filling, so much faster and less hassle than mixing up putty. As long as you sand it when it's fresh, it's easy to sand.

[gowjobs]

At some shows, Aftermarket Decals, wheels, & PE items are allowed also. Some of these "box Stock" builds have even made it into Print. Personally, I feel that if the detail or part didn't come in the box, then it's not eligible. then again, if you make antennae or plug wires from heated & stretched Parts , tree..... Where do you draw the line????? filler? use it, I say.

At one time, I actuallly built a couple of Out-Of-Box-Custom projects. The point was to significantly modify the car without using anything that wasn't in the box to begin with. I had considered scanning/editing/reprinting the instruction sheets to show step-by-step the mods I'd made. Might be funny to do that, and enter such a build in the OOBS class to see who'd catch the joke.

Here's my first OOBC, from about six years back, followed by the second, built the year thereafter:

EDIT: Yeah - the iron cross decals kinda fell into the box on the '50 Ford... but everything else was made from box parts.

Edited February 23, 2009 by gowjobs

[Bernard Kron]

At one time, I actuallly built a couple of Out-Of-Box-Custom projects. The point was to significantly modify the car without using anything that wasn't in the box to begin with. ...

What a great concept. I'm definitely gonna challenge myself with this approach! But I guess it does violate (and I use the word advisedly) the spirit of OOBS, particular the S part!

Edited February 23, 2009 by gbk1

[roadhawg]

I've seen some awesome models that fit the OOB category. Since I'm an IPMS member, I go by IPMS rules, and heres what THEY say about OOB:

"OUT-OF-THE-BOX entries will be governed by the following rules: A. KITS. Any commercially available kit may be used. Any parts provided in the kit may be used, regardless of their material (i.e., brass, resin, plastic, etc.). Generally, only parts that are included with the kit and found in the bag or box may be used. As provided above, exemptions may be allowed but must be approved by the respective Head Judge in advance of the judging. B. FINISH. All finishing techniques are allowed. Decals other than those included with the kit may be used. Insignia, markings, and instrument panels may be hand-painted instead of decaled. Weathering is permitted. C. CONSTRUCTION. The modeler may fill seams and gaps; sand off rivets; drill out gun ports, exhaust pipes, or other appropriate openings; thin to scale such parts as trailing edges, flaps, and doors; re-scribe panel lines lost in construction; and add rigging and antennas. D. IT IS NOT PERMITTED TO: vacuform, manufacture, or replace any part, or substitute parts from another kit; cut or separate canopies, surfaces, hatches, doors, etc. (no major surgery); combine a standard kit with a conversion kit; add anything other than specified on the instruction sheet except as shown in Section C above or specifically exempted by the respective Head Judge. E. INSTRUCTION SHEETS. Modelers must attach at least the first page of the kit instruction sheet to the entry form and have the rest of the instruction sheet accessible to the judges for review during judging (preferably, directly under the table from the model). Models entered without an attached kit instruction sheet will not be considered for an Out-of-the-Box award."

[Scott Colmer]

The problem with Box stock is that it refuses to stay that way. Here is what happened to "ol Skurvy's purple P/U when became fodder for a Rat Plastic Thrash.

Scott

See it in there in the pickin's pile?

Hosted on Fotki

This is what became of it.

Hosted on Fotki

[VW Dave]

At some shows, Aftermarket Decals, wheels, & PE items are allowed also. Some of these "box Stock" builds have even made it into Print. Personally, I feel that if the detail or part didn't come in the box, then it's not eligible. then again, if you make antennae or plug wires from heated & stretched Parts , tree..... Where do you draw the line????? filler? use it, I say.

I agree with you 100% on all points, but I've never heard of a show allowing PE in an out-of-box class....kinda defeats the purpose of OOB, if'n you ask me. I have heard of a show(MassCar, I believe) that does a "parts box stock" class; pieces pirated from other kits are allowed, as are BMF and filler for sink marks and flaws.

As others have already posted, I say flocking is over the line when it comes to OOB.

[Paul Payne]

seems like hot rods and similar models (dragsters, etc.) would suffer in this category since the focus is usually the engine, and without any detailing an engine would look pretty bare- anyone know of exceptions where basic engine detailing is allowed?

[MR BIGGS]

Those few that know me here will realize how out-of-character this will be for me, but I'm about to embark on an Out-Of-Box-Stock (OOBS) build. I haven't chosen the easiest subject to do this with, but I figure the Hippie Hemi should be able to be built into a striking enough model without my usual arm-long list of modifications and kitbashed parts.

With the four-piece (upper, lower and two rear wheelwell fillers) body, I'm wondering how much seam-filling I can get away with and still be legal for OOBS. My plan is to build it like a model airplane - painting the chassis/engine/interior, then installing the body around it, filling the seams, masking the openings, and then painting the body before adding the wheels, pipes, etc. to complete the model. I may be able to use only glue to seal the seams, and then sand them smooth, but how much if any filler can I use and still be OOBS?

Another question - I personally have never deducted points for an OOBS build that used BMF, but what are the feelings of the board on BMF and/or flocking on an OOBS build? Are these finishes, like paint, or something out of the realm of an OOBS build?

Thanks,

Dave McGowan

I don't know what the rules are, but to me OOB means to make the car just like a 1:1 would be straight out of the show room. So I would add flocking, all engine wires and hose's, and BMF.

[Guest Davkin]

don't know what the rules are, but to me OOB means to make the car just like a 1:1 would be straight out of the show room

I think you have factory stock and box stock mixed up.

In the end, box stock or OOB is what ever the contest you're entering defines it to be. In most cases BMF is okay, any decals are okay, any glue is okay, any paint is okay. Filler is only to be used to fill seams, ejection pin marks, sink marks, etc. Otherwise all parts or detailing items not originally included in the kit are not allowed and all parts must be used in accordance with the kit instructions.

David

[george 53]

PERFECT EXAMPLE of what I was sayin on another thread. That ya don't REALLY NEED extra detailing stuff alot of times! Mike Garrett, aka"raisin" and I were talking about this same thing at our last meeting. He has a BEAUTIFUL Black on red 60 Ford Galaxie, It's ALL detailed out with the P/E scripts, wired engine, fully detailed E/C, the works. Next to it sat a 62 Catalina with NO extra oob detailing, and just using washes and varying shades of paint, some contrasting colors, and BAM, it looks almost as nice(really, just as nice, but without the goodies!) as the fully detailed one, and it was an oob build. No extra detail, no wiring, nada! So it does prove to ME that a VERY NICE model CAN be built right out da box! Props out to my man Mike, for buildin such COOL models!!!

Edited February 24, 2009 by george 53

[gowjobs]

seems like hot rods and similar models (dragsters, etc.) would suffer in this category since the focus is usually the engine, and without any detailing an engine would look pretty bare- anyone know of exceptions where basic engine detailing is allowed?

They do, unless you grab a 1/16 scale kit that includes all the hoses/wires, etc. or a car with enough bodywork to cover some of the engine, disguising its lack of plumbing. The good news is that the Hippie Hemi does include a rubber/vinyl blower belt, clear fuel line, and a transparent oilpan to show off the crankshaft detail (the old Gartlits rail chassis).

I don't know what the rules are, but to me OOB means to make the car just like a 1:1 would be straight out of the show room. So I would add flocking, all engine wires and hose's, and BMF.

That would be REPLICA/FACTORY STOCK - not OOB. OOB is about the stock kit - REPLICA is about the stock subject vehicle.

[Fletch]

Any contest I have either been to or have judged has used pretty much the same criteria. Filler is allowed to correct manufacturing flaws ie: ejector pin marks, sink marks, filling seams etc. Body contouring, reshaping is frowned upon, unless the custom parts are part of the kit. If you look at some of the 3n1 kits they have the parts and some even came with 2 part epoxy putty.

Flocking and the use of P/E and after market parts is over the line and will get a build moved to Factory Stock. THe use of BMF depends entirely on the show some allow it and others don't. You would have to check the rules for the contest you are entering.

A lot of "Box Stock" is a question of how well you can build just using what the kit MFG gave you. Yes, some of the kits have a lot more in the box other then plastic parts on the sprue. More then anything else judges are looking for things like removing the mold seams from the exhaust system, removing ejector pin marks, etc. Just because it's Box Stock doesn't mean it can't be a totally clean build.

My $.25 worth.

[MR BIGGS]

So then out of box should mean out of box only. That wont fly it's a catch 22 then. No glue, no paint, no BMF no nothing if they want to get technical. So they should call it OOB snap kit. No glue it will snap together, no decals only stickers, no paint body molded in color now that’s OOB to me.

If it were up to me I would eliminate OOB category in all. And just call it factory stock.

Edited February 24, 2009 by MR BIGGS

[Guest Davkin]

I

If it were up to me I would eliminate OOB category in all. And just call it factory stock.

I don't understand that. If I build a kit of a dragster out of box how does that make it a factory stock? Factory stock (showroom stock factory produced vehicles) refers to the type of 1:1 vehicle being modeled and has nothing to do with the method of modeling it. And why would you eliminate a category that is enjoyed by so many modelers? In our local contests, box stock consistently has the most participants. Even at GSL, box stock, (or Box Plus, as it's officially referred to) is one of the highest participated categories.

David

[John Goschke]

I've seen some awesome models that fit the OOB category. Since I'm an IPMS member, I go by IPMS rules, and heres what THEY say about OOB:

"OUT-OF-THE-BOX entries will be governed by the following rules: A. KITS. Any commercially available kit may be used. Any parts provided in the kit may be used, regardless of their material (i.e., brass, resin, plastic, etc.). Generally, only parts that are included with the kit and found in the bag or box may be used. As provided above, exemptions may be allowed but must be approved by the respective Head Judge in advance of the judging. B. FINISH. All finishing techniques are allowed. Decals other than those included with the kit may be used. Insignia, markings, and instrument panels may be hand-painted instead of decaled. Weathering is permitted. C. CONSTRUCTION. The modeler may fill seams and gaps; sand off rivets; drill out gun ports, exhaust pipes, or other appropriate openings; thin to scale such parts as trailing edges, flaps, and doors; re-scribe panel lines lost in construction; and add rigging and antennas. D. IT IS NOT PERMITTED TO: vacuform, manufacture, or replace any part, or substitute parts from another kit; cut or separate canopies, surfaces, hatches, doors, etc. (no major surgery); combine a standard kit with a conversion kit; add anything other than specified on the instruction sheet except as shown in Section C above or specifically exempted by the respective Head Judge. E. INSTRUCTION SHEETS. Modelers must attach at least the first page of the kit instruction sheet to the entry form and have the rest of the instruction sheet accessible to the judges for review during judging (preferably, directly under the table from the model). Models entered without an attached kit instruction sheet will not be considered for an Out-of-the-Box award."

Say what you will about IPMS, but this is the BEST DEFINITION AVAILABLE of an "out-of-the-box" build! Shouldn't be too difficult to apply to a car or truck build.

Edited February 24, 2009 by John Goschke

[gowjobs]

So then out of box should mean out of box only. That wont fly it's a catch 22 then. No glue, no paint, no BMF no nothing if they want to get technical. So they should call it OOB snap kit. No glue it will snap together, no decals only stickers, no paint body molded in color now that’s OOB to me. wink.gif

If it were up to me I would eliminate OOB category in all. And just call it factory stock.

I could see your point if it didn't say right on the box that the model requires glue and paint (not included) to finish it. Since it does, I think we can at least allow those items to be used in the completion of the model. Now, if we could just convince the manufacturers to add: "should use tires/wheels/engines and other sub-assemblies from other kits and/or aftermarket manufacturers," to the instruction sheet, we could enter ANYTHING in OOB.

I

I don't understand that. If I build a kit of a dragster out of box how does that make it a factory stock? Factory stock (showroom stock factory produced vehicles) refers to the type of 1:1 vehicle being modeled and has nothing to do with the method of modeling it. And why would you eliminate a category that is enjoyed by so many modelers? In our local contests, box stock consistently has the most participants. Even at GSL, box stock, (or Box Plus, as it's officially referred to) is one of the highest participated categories.

David

We're getting a little OT with the factory stock discussion, let me try to get us closer to our original course. Box Plus - doesn't that allow minor kitbashing, and pre-70's era detailing methods? Or am I thinking of some other class?

Edited February 24, 2009 by gowjobs

[Guest Davkin]

Box Plus - doesn't that allow minor kitbashing, and pre-70's era detailing methods? Or am I thinking of some other class?

No, it doesn't. I'm not sure why but Mark G. felt it necessary to use a different term for that class at GSL. The rules are essentially the same as box stock or OOB in other contests. You can read the full description of that category here;

http://www.gslchampionship.org/Competition/competition.html

Ironically that category has by far the longest description of any of the GSL categories!

David

[Fletch]

So then out of box should mean out of box only. That wont fly it's a catch 22 then. No glue, no paint, no BMF no nothing if they want to get technical. So they should call it OOB snap kit. No glue it will snap together, no decals only stickers, no paint body molded in color now that’s OOB to me.

If it were up to me I would eliminate OOB category in all. And just call it factory stock.

You're taking the term "out of the box" way to literal.

Obviously, you're going to get to use paint, glue, etc to complete the build. The idea is to build the kit using ONLY the parts provided by the kit MFG. Basically, it's an exercise in showcasing your building skills. Not how deep your pockets are when it comes to buying AFTERMARKET parts from Detail Masters, Model Car Garage, etc.

Factory Stock is based on models built to represent the way they would have been the day they rolled off the assembly line in Detroit or any other assembly line around the world. Factory Stock means build a model that would be available using the factory literature, catalogs etc. So, stock wheels, tires, air cleaners, anything available in the factory documentation. If the biggest wheel tire combination from the 1:1 MFG was 15X6" steel wheels with G70-15 tires then a model built with Cragar 5 spokes with L60-15 tires wouldn't be "Factory Stock". Factory Stock is not based on how AMT, Revell, Monogram, and the others choose to release them to us the modeling public.

I guess the bottom line is find out in advance what is and isn't allowed before you attempt to enter a show/contest. Remember, you're playing in someone else sandbox and you have to play by their rules or don't play at all. If you don't like the way a show sets up their classes, the solution is simple start your own show and set up the classes the way you want them.

[MR BIGGS]

You're taking the term "out of the box" way to literal.

Obviously, you're going to get to use paint, glue, etc to complete the build. The idea is to build the kit using ONLY the parts provided by the kit MFG. Basically; it's an exercise in showcasing your building skills. Not how deep your pockets are when it comes to buying AFTERMARKET parts from Detail Masters, Model Car Garage, etc.

I guess the bottom line is find out in advance what is and isn't allowed before you attempt to enter a show/contest. Remember, you're playing in someone else sandbox and you have to play by their rules or don't play at all. If you don't like the way a show sets up their classes, the solution is simple start your own show and set up the classes the way you want them.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And this is why a lot of people are not attending shows anymore. They make the rules and change them as they please. To benefit them selves and their members/friends. I sponsor a bunch of big shows each year and if I see foul play or favoritism I will pull my sponsorship, and along with me others sponsors and paying participants will follow.

People got to remember this is just a hobby, and it's got to be in fun. Cause once you take that away, it's all over. When too much politics get involved its not fun anymore. There are a few major show and web sights you will never catch me at or on, due to a bunch of modelers who think they know it all and take this hobby to the heart.

This is just my opinion thou.

Thanks.

[roadhawg]

People got to remember this is just a hobby, and it's got to be in fun. Cause once you take that away, it's all over. When too much politics get involved its not fun anymore.

This is just my opinion thou.

Thanks.

.......Which is the reason for OOB classes in the first place. Not all of us can afford to spend a fortune on photoetch and aluminum to compete in a contest. An OOB category recognizes basic construction skills.....not the size of a checkbook.

Edited February 25, 2009 by roadhawg

[Zoom Zoom]

.......Which is the reason for OOB classes in the first place. Not all of us can afford to spend a fortune on photoetch and aluminum to compete in a contest. An OOB category recognizes basic construction skills.....not the size of a checkbook.

I couldn't agree more. There's quite an art to making the best of what's inside the box, and applying all that basic craftsmanship to a kit without aftermarket bells, whistles, and gizmos. Some of the best models you'll see can be built completely OOB. I love looking at the over-the-top detailed builds, but that isn't my style of building. Simpler models can have nearly the same "gotcha factor" when the builder pays attention to the basics.

A builder who wants to be competitive would be wise to concentrate on OOB builds to learn the basics of good craftsmanship before setting off in the direction of checkbook modeling. To me all that extra detail is spoiled when the builder clearly hasn't mastered even the most basic of paint and assembly techniques before peppering their model with a bunch of gimmicks.

[Harry P.]

I don't know what the rules are, but to me OOB means to make the car just like a 1:1 would be straight out of the show room.

OOB and Factory Stock are two completely different things.

OOB means building the kit using only the parts that came in the box (slight differences between different contests as to exactly what is or is not allowed in an "OOB" model). What comes in the box doesn't necessarily have to be a "factory stock" car. A drag car, a hot rod, a custom Merc... whatever comes in the box can be entered in OOB, because the subject matter isn't regulated or specified in OOB. What's regulated or specified is HOW you build the model.

Factory Stock, on the other hand, refers to building a model that depicts a car as it came from the factory that manufactured it, in stock condition... that is, right off the assembly line. A hot rod or a custom Merc obviously does NOT represent a "factory stock" car. In Factory Stock, you can use aftermarket parts, you can combine kits/kitbash, you can do anything you want as far as technique, but the finished model must represent the car as it came off the assembly line in factory stock condition. Unlike OOB, which regulates HOW you build a model, Factory Stock regulates not how you build it, but how it looks (what it represents).