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Fed Up...discouraged

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Hey guys,

My name is mitch and I completely failed my first model. I got so fed up I threw it in the trash (Revell '68 stang).

I have no idea how to paint. I own an airbrush, but the paint on my model was so sporatic I couldnt get any consistency. I was trying to paint it gloss black, with different thinning mixtures (model master's enamel with mineral spirit). Each mixture turned out completely differnt. Some were glossy, some were powdery looking, and the thinnest mixtures seemed to turn out the best, but their coverage was lacking. I did not use a primer (was that a mistake)?

I need some help guys, desparately. Anyone got some step by step , brand by awesome brand, instructions? What paint is easiest to work with ? acrylic, enamel, laquer?

Thanks,

mitch

p.s. I want to mention that I am a student of architecture and I settle for nothing less than perfection (I build scale building models, too). The reason I decided to go into scale car was to learn more patience and to prefect the skill of ....perfect models. I threw my model away becuase I added a primer after all the 8 coats of paint I did, and I completely lost all detail and trim work after the fact. I was so upset !

Edited by #1Amatuer

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Posted · Report post

Hey guys,

My name is mitch and I completely failed my first model. I got so fed up I threw it in the trash (Revell '68 stang).

I need some help guys, desparately. Anyone got some step by step , brand by awesome brand, instructions? What paint is easiest to work with ? acrylic, enamel, laquer?

Thanks,

mitch

Mitch, calm down. It is okay to get frustrated and even to throw models away! I did that recently with a stupid Heller Citroen 2CV when I decided it wasn't worth the trouble. First thing you should do is look around in this forum; there is an astonishing wealth of information of just the sort you seek. And then you need to practice, practice, practice, whether or not you are trying to get to Carnegie Hall.

A couple of immediate suggestions: use lacquer paints and try Tamiya. As many will tell you, any type of paint (lacquer, enamel, acrylic) in any conveyance (can or airbrush) can be used and can yield excellent results. However, for a discouraged beginner, shooting a body with Tamiya spray paint from a can should give you a great boost of confidence. And don't, for Pete's sake, try to do a gloss black body for your first paint job! If there is a more difficult color to get a great finish from I've never seen it. Even white is easier than black.

Anyway, you need patience and can't expect outstanding build quality on your first try. Get that Mustang out of the trash and strip the paint (search for the many threads that discuss that topic), then try to practice painting it. Take your time and enjoy the hobby.

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Posted · Report post

Donn Yost (Lone Wolf Custom Painting) says to mix 2 bottles of Model Master and 1 bottle of LACQUER THINNER - the cheapest you can find. Donn has a DVD that you can purchase like I did.

I always prime the body with Plastikote sandable primer (Car Quest).

Get that body out of the garbage. You can strip it with Purple Power or brake fluid.

There's a ton of posts in here on painting techniques. All you have to do is search a little.

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Posted · Report post

Mitch, pull that RASCAL OUT of the trash an throw it in some simple green to strip it! NEVER throw madels or parts away, THAT'S how you build your stash! Unless your REALLY good with an airbrush, start with spray cans, it's ALOT easier an faster. You REALLY should wash your body and remove any molding seems before you paint. Always use a primer, it helps the paint stick, AND it shows up flaws that you may need to fix before you add color coats. Warm the cans under some warmer water to bring it's paint temp up, that;ll make it spray, and set on the body better. Start with light missed coats, maybe 3/4 light ones, just to set up the color for your final color coats. Hold the can about 8/12 inches away, depending on if you want wet coats or semi wet, an make whole passes at it, starting the spray BEFORE you get to the model, and go easy but not too slow or you'll run the paint, an finish AFTER you pass the model/ NEVER START on the model itself or your sure to get a run in it! These are just starter tips, the guys can give you better ones that'll REALLY help ya. But this should get ya rollin. NEVER loose faith in yourself, an take your time,caz it's all a learning expirience. Stick with it Bro, you'll get better! :lol::blink:

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This is one of the all-time classic questions. Unfortunately there is no one correct answer.

Like chilly said, you can get great results from any type of paint, from either a spray can or airbrush. It all depends on what you're used to working with, and how long you've been at it. Painting is an art, and there are SO many variables involved that there can't possibly be any one best way to go about it. Different people get great results using totally different paints and techniques. You'd be amazed at how many different "right" ways there are to paint a model!

I'd say that to make your life easier you stay away from enamels and try lacquers or acrylics, with are both easier to work with, go on smoother, and dry faster. Tamiya spray cans work great. I also like Duplicolor sprays from the auto parts store. Over the years I've found enamel paints to be very difficult to work with. That's been my experience at least, although you can bet there are lots of people that'll swear they're the best way to go.

So bottom line: there is no one best way to do it, but in general lacquers and acrylics seem easier to work with (for me at least).

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Posted · Report post

Oh, an WELCOME, Mitch, to the BEST model car forum ON THE PLANET!!!!! :lol::blink:

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Posted · Report post

Ok Mitch,be easy with your self and the models.its ok and can be fixed.first off,nothing is perfect to the artist,he or she always has mistakes or parts there not happy with.others think its perfect but you....the artist....no's it is not..its ok...normal.and yes we are all artist here,this is art!!!.as many have said just get the model out of the trash,have it take a swim in the purple pool and start again.yes you need primer,and start with cans,rattle or spray cans....and use Tamiya...it works great.thanks.Chris

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Posted · Report post

DUDE! IFEEL YOUR PAIN!

I used to airbrush t-shirts and I used a waterbased acrylic. I have been using rattle cans for my models and I am gonna try the airbrush again soon, just because I will have better control and none of the fumes associated with the cans. Come to think of it, I will be able to mix my own colors aw well! I have also found that enamels thru an airbrush are a Major pain. You can never thin em enuf to flow correctly and when ya do the tip dry is aweful (not to mention cleanup)

As for being discouraged, see my thread on "never being as good as y'all", these guys here have some great info and are the best support group anyone could ever have! If you need an answer....it can be found here!

Strip that stang, give it another shot and welcome to the insanity!

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Posted · Report post

...I am gonna try the airbrush again soon, just because I will have better control and none of the fumes associated with the cans.

Not so!

The fumes that you smell are the paint, not the propellant. The same fumes that the paint gives off out of a spray can will be given off by the paint out of an airbrush. It's not any safer to use an airbrush, the fumes are still there.

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You've just received real good advice from all of these guys. I have been building since the early 1960's, and it is very seldom that I can lay down a paint job that I am happy with the first time. And I have my very worst luck with my airbrushes, but then... ... I get that one paint job that makes it all worth while.

Don't let it get you down. Just go retreive that body from the trash, get back up on that horse and ride it to the ground. Don't let it win. And if you need help, don't be afraid to ask for it here. The knowledge base of the members here is absolutely awesome.

:lol:

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ok, so i have to thank you all for the advice and encouragement. I brought the model out of the trash (hopefully, all the parts too). I will try simple green to strip or possible the brake fluid. I went to my hobby store and bought another model to start clean fresh. I still have not been able to find laquer paints, just all enamel or water based acrylic. I have to use my airbrush, it is a good badger brush, because buying different color cans is not in my college budget (hah). So I have been reading here is what I've come up with for paint technique,

1. wash plastic model with warm soapy water

2. sand model and prep

3. wash model again (?)

4. prime with a primer according to base coat color

5. spray thin layer of color (thinned down with mineral spirits?)

6. spray final

7. wet sand with 2000 grit

8. cut and polish

9. wait two weeks and clear coat

i must praise all you guys that know how to paint cars. it is truly the hardest painting task I have ever come across.

i want to find laquer paint hopefully hobby town USA will have it.

my other problem: I live in texas and it is extremely hot and humid. it makes painting that much more difficult, and it is hard to find motivation to go stand in my garage to paint (it is like an oven in there).

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Don't use mineral spirits to thin your paint it is ok to clean up with but I wouldn't mix it with any thing becuase it doesn't evaporate as well as lacquer thinner .and if you are using the lacquer paints you can go start to finish in an evening .Treehugger Dave has a wonderful tutorial on this subject if you follow his technique carefully they way he has it laid out you should have a top notch paint job in no time. good luck and keep at it also don't expect to be a pro your first time out ,finish what you start and correct problem areas on the next one .

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I agree with the guy's who have commented,don't get discouraged man.Take your time while following all the helpful tips you've gotten and I'm sure you'll never throw another model away, also you can order Tamiya spray paint online if you so desire.Hang in there,if you can build scale buildings you should have no problem with model cars.Geeeez.

haha. it is a little different. basswood models are not so tedious as car models. thanks for your support george.

I will try and find tree hugger dave's tutorial I am having hard time finding my way around the site. I will learn it tho.

Is it possible to use laquer thinner with enamel based paints? or just laquer based.

I always though it went like so:

enamel - mineral spirit

laquer - laquer thinner

acrylic - water

am i wrong?

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Is it possible to use laquer thinner with enamel based paints? or just laquer based.

I always though it went like so:

enamel - mineral spirit

laquer - laquer thinner

acrylic - water

am i wrong?

Okay, I'll say you are wrong. I use lacquer thinner with lacquers and enamels (or I used to before I gave up on using enamels altogether) and Tamiya's thinner with their acrylics. I know other modelers have their own preferences. I'm sure you can use water or alcohol when shooting acrylics, but you'll maybe have to experiment to see what you like best.

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This is one of Dave's paint posts I had saved link... he has a few... ;) It's about using cans, but good advice in it.

rattle cans

I started modeling when I was 8 and am now retired and I'm just beginning to learn the ins and outs of paint :)

And welcome to the forum. Perfection is a good thing to strive for as long as you remember it's impossible to achieve. I just retired as a Structural Engineer with a Consulting Engineering/Architecture company. My idea of the "perfect" architect was those that would fire back with a completely new idea when told the one they had was not possible for one reason or another. Their original idea of perfection would change as the building was worked out ... perfection was just making it do what it was supposed to for the client.

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Not so!

The fumes that you smell are the paint, not the propellant. The same fumes that the paint gives off out of a spray can will be given off by the paint out of an airbrush. It's not any safer to use an airbrush, the fumes are still there.

I understand what you are saying, however, this would (in my case) only apply to laquer and enamel, not the water based acrylics. I used Createx acrylics for my t-shirt business for years and the only reason to wear a respirator was for the atomized overspray that you could breath if you weren't painting in the open air or had a indoor venting system. The paints had a very slight fragrance added to them and that's about all I could smell. But rattlecans STINK, no 2 ways about it. :)

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Mitch-

Welcome to our place! I applaud your gusto, but few, if any people, no matter what they strive for, reach "perfection" right out of the gate. By setting your goals so high, you are just setting yourself up for a knockdown.

First, if you can afford two model kits (which you have done), you can afford two spray cans (paint, and clear). You start by learning to paint with spray cans, and work your way up to an airbrush.

It's like this- if you wanted to start learning tomorrow to go car racing, would you buy something you could run and learn on at a local track, or... would you expect Jack Roush or Joe Gibbs to just hire you on the spot?

Buy some spray.

If you want to go with enamel, you will need a primer, and your color. Clearcoating is optional, but not necessary as enamels are gloss right out of the can. DO expect to wait longer for the paint to dry.

If you want to go with lacquer, you may not need a primer, but I think it's the safest way to go. Only if you are spraying a paint that just so happens to be the same color as the plastic would I skip the primer. And one large non-hobby type lacquer primer such as Dupli-Color or Plasti-Kote will last you several models. Just remember no matter if you are spraying primer or color, do NOT expect, or even try to get full coverage with one spray. That is where the "mist one or two coats" comes in to use.

Some, but not all lacquers need a clear coat after the color. Not all lacquers dry to a gloss. I suggest you do not wait too long between the color, and the clear. I have read that twenty minutes is the longest you should wait, otherwise you risk a nasty reaction between the two.

Mineral Spirits? You don't need that at all. Unless you are doing oil-based house paints. And God I hope you're not going iin that direction.

Please park your airbrush for a while (it will wait!) and learn to paint car bodies with spray cans. I guarantee you can afford the cans needed to paint. We all spend on our self indulgances, learning to paint could be yours.

And when you do master all this, and want to start using that airbrush, try airbrushing engine blocks! That's how I learned to mix paints. At least it's easier to soak an engine block in the purple pond, than a bigger car body if something goes wwrong.

Good luck! And never throw away old parts! You may need something there some day.

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hey Mitch,

welcome to the madness!

you can get lacquers at your local auto parts store along with primer and clear and sandpaper and polishing compounds and fillers (bondo) i buy 98 percent of my paint supplies from there.

most of us prefer duplicolor sandable primers and prime most everything before painting.

they have black, white, high build gray and a red oxide, also pick up a pack of plastic spoons from the grocery store to practice on, they are made from the same materials as the kits are. they are great later down the road as well to test shoot a color on to see how the paint is gonna look before spraying your hard work.

99% of the lacquers you are going to get are acrylic lacquers and they will require a clear coat for that super deep gloss (although there was just a discussion about not clearing black because it polishes out better without it.)

testors has a line of what they call one shot lacquer but the name can be misleading here. i painted 1:1 cars for a long time and nothing worth its finish covers in one coat.

hopefully we havent confuzzled you too much with this wealth of info here, these are just basic guidelines really. we all have are own techniques and tricks which you will pick up and develop into your own eventually.

good luck, now go paint some spoons!!! :)

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firecrackers and m-80s are legal in wyoming. go there, get some, build them into the model. then when it doesnt turn out perfect, light the fuse and stand back. then start on the next one.

you'll thank me in the morning

:lol:

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I will try and find tree hugger dave's tutorial .........

I POSTED IT FOR YOU HERE IN THE "GENERAL" LINK SO YOU COULD FIND IT EASILY.

SCROLL DOWN UNTIL YOU FIND IT :blink:

HOPE IT HELPS - dave :lol:

Edited by Treehugger Dave

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You can click here for the direct link to Dave's tutorial-------in case it's get's pushed down by all the new threads in the general section.

VERY good tutorial Dave for those using rattlecans! I picked up a few things myself, even though I'm and avid airbrusher! :lol:

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:D

First off #1Amatuer, welcome to a great model car forum, lot of great guys on here with a lot of great advice. The one you have to watch out for is George53, he is our local forum PR man and he's darn good at it.

Now as for painting, I have to agree with Charlzrocks, I use nothing but Createx Air Brush ready paints, because you can use them really anywhere. There is no smell so to speak of. I live in Iowa and have trouble in the winter with painting outside in the cold. I use the Createx Air Brush ready paints and paint in the basement with no paint booth and it doesnt stink up the work area or the house.

Another point for them is that they are water based and easy clean up. I take 2 buckets of clean water and just dip the whole brush in the first bucket till most of the paint is out of it and than move it to the second bucket to finish the cleaning. Than I put some Createx air brush cleaner thru it and I am set for the next color.

I have done it this way for several years now and never had a problem, and the Createx is compatable with any clear coat you want to use. I use the Createx clears for the same reasons mentioned above. Also I am a firm beliver in using the same brand of paints for the whole process.

As Treehugger Dave says everyone has there own way of doing it and you just have to find what works best for you. You have to experiment with the different ways and find which one you like, than just practice practice practice till you get it right.

B) Jeff :huh:

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I use nothing but Createx Air Brush ready paints, because you can use them really anywhere.

Not to take this too far off topic (and maybe it's run its course already), but is there a chance someone could post pictures of models painted and cleared with this Createx stuff? I, for one, would love to see the results.

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Posted · Report post

Don't give up, Mitch!

This Revell '09 Camaro took four dips and the "Purple Pool" before I got a paint job I could live with.

09%20camaro.jpg

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