Cheating in Model Car Contests

[FloridaBoy]

I’m bringing up a delicate point in our hobby subculture since we are approaching our “building season†in which many of us, including me, are building cars for the spring contests. We contest veterans have been privy to periodic outright cheating behaviors and to date not much has been discussed or covered on this forum, at least to my knowledge. Our country has become so obsessed with victory and winning, it often overlooks that a win using fair play is more important, secondary to “winning is the only thingâ€. We interpret this by taking vicious short cuts to take home the hardware. I sure don't remember Vince Lombardi cheating to get a Super Bowl. Only hard work. And it isn’t only in model cars, of course, look at all of our major sports, with cheating occurring in the NFL, NBA, MLB, NCAA and even professional tennis and so on. We have become win junkies just to achieve respect, flame or glory.

I have been competing in model car contests since 1961 and it seems the basic rules have not changed, such as like impartial judges fairly, build your own cars, enter cars in the right category, list the work done on entry sheets accurately and so on. I have been witness to cheating since my first contest.

Even I have been guilty of cheating by association, not in model cars, but in competitive tennis, where my doubles partner hooked an opponent on a call winning the match and tournament. I unknowingly backed him up all the way. Later, after some feedback, I went back and checked the mark again to discover me wrong, and it sickened me, and I didn’t accept the trophy or played with him again. I couldn’t. I am no prude. But by fact, I supported the cheat and deceit. Deep down, I realized he was a hardware hound, looking for the cheap win. Lesson learned. I gave him both tainted trophies/ To me the mark of a true man is winning on a level playing field.

Over the last 10 years in model cars cheating has become so rampant, it is ridiculous, and more acceptable. I have seen many blatant examples of one guy building for another, painting cars, detailing engines, stuffing votes in audience participant judging boxes, favoritism in judging, agendas, positioning cars on tables, even sabotage and so on. What this practice relies on is the general apathy of everyone concerned, and the cloak of doubt.

The most colossal cheat occurred a few years ago in a National Contest from a couple down here in South Florida, a “kid†from Hialeah, Fl won Marc Gustavson’s photo custom car contest, junior category in a magazine and the entire model was built by his father. We detected it when the father/son duo tried to enter it at our local contest, and after some routine questions, both admitted to the father building the car on behalf of his son. The Svengali father was an incredible rat it turned out, another example of a hardware hound, looking for cheap glory.

At our contest, we disqualified both father and son, but several people around us were not outraged, as the general population said it was an inevitable and now routine occurrence. Have we really learned to accept this outrageous behavior? To me, cheating incorporates a lot of other despicable behaviors, including lying, stealing, laziness, and dishonesty. Frankly, I will never condone it no matter what the social consequences are.

Below, you can find some of the examples of cheating I have seen over the years……

1. One good builder doing another’s work, which ranges from the motor, detailing, body work, paint to even the entire model. This does not include use of aftermarket products in which the owner/builder contributes the work product to the model. Another is a contestant hiring a commission builder to build a "phantom" model for him, on the sly.

2. Entering models in the “gray area†in categories. This is a somewhat sophisticated approach when the entry knows the cars to be entered and uses his own discretion to enter his car against supposedly weaker competition.

3. Inaccurate description of work, For example, I have seen modelers take credit for opening the trunk and adding hinges to an AMT 49 Merc. An unsuspecting judge will award body work points to a factory provided feature.

4. Using pre-painted bodies and taking credit for the paint job.

5. Entering a specialist’s motor or chassis detail to the entry built by the contestant.

6. Judge’s ignorance, agenda, biases. preferences, pre-formed opinions, attitudes, knowledge of contest cars and contestants, and inappropriate use of his discretion.

7. Inappropriate voting practices, such as stuffing ballot boxes on audience participation judging, making deals when voting, etc.

8. Organization assigning judges at random, or within the organization, or from the constestant pool, only not within the category.

The list is endless. If there is a general rule, there will be breakers. The breakers hide under the cloak of apathy, cowardice, accuser’s fear of proof, ignorance, and “hey, it’s only model cars, so what's the big dealâ€. It is a big deal, as I have seen clubs disband, groups infight and break up, and reputations ruined over discovery of these practices.

I have been a judge at several contests, and have always strived to be fair and impartial, but even I have bias, which sometimes predudice my points assigned to a model. For example, if I find a mold mark. sink mark or glue smudge, beware!!! But one night, I personally judged over 160 cars all night, which included assigning point values and a small written narrative. At the end, I talked to each disgruntled loser and discussed his entry. Even then, I found myself wrong on occasion, just because it was a new kit and didn’t know it. I also recognized some cars of people I knew, and tried to fight bias, either positive or negative, but the bias was there. I won't even get into the exhaustion factor.

Another bias is my basic laziness. I can almost forecast the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place finisher on any table without going through the hoops, and dread judging an inferior model. What keeps me doing it is the non-placing model builder is more important to the hobby and us all, for he is the future of our hobby, and his continuing improvement and development assures success and growth in the hobby for years.

What is the solution? Right now the circumstances seem to be beyond us. To assign an unbiased judge or judges who doesn’t enter, but knows how to build are hard to find, and if they are good enough to judge, they are probably entered. The community is too small for perfect unbiased judging. The IPMS has a very effective 100 point judging system designed for each category of cars, which I am trying to scan in and put on this forum to be used in the future. Hopefully, it will start to inspire clubs, organizations, and groups to do their best to incorporate as much objectivity in their contests for the future, and promote strong competition which advances the hobby.

What is needed is an objective system and teeth for follow through. Any discovery should be handled with privacy of all parties, dignity, and justice. It is imperative because most people are fair and go by the rules, but are vulnerable to the cheat veterans who taint the impression of an otherwise great model car contest. A contest is more than a competition, but sometimes it is the competition that ruins the legacy of an event.

I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. If anyone in the South is conducting a contest, and has a home to put me up, and pay for the driving expenses, I will offer myself as a very unbiased judge PRO BONO, and feed myself.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[Eshaver]

Ken , you and I have discussed this topic at lenith. I agree with every thing you said too! I should ought to post the service station I sent Bill Gery of last year. It was a complete replicia of a former Conoco station that was built here in Richmond Virginia in 1923 . To make a long story Short , I entered it in the I P M S contest only to have the entire entry disregarded by the judges . The judges were from Tidewater and of course they awarded the prizes , all three to their own . I heard several stories after the fact . I didn't say anything on account of the fact that I didn't want to create a scene . As for my feelings about the host club , well it certainly wasn't their fault , hey threw out the mat to recruit people who thought they could be impartial . Still , we found rampant politicing going on as it happened again last year , ask Don Yost of Lone Wolf Custom painting , he was there and witnessed it yet again ! I was a judge for that contest once and never again as the time when I did , I refused top give an award to a " Certain builder " he threw a temper tantrum afterwards and called me every name under the sun . I swore then I would NEVER EVER judge a I P M S contest again and guess what kids , I never have !

Ed Shaver

[Zoom Zoom]

This entire thread was poisoned when at the very end you asked for people to pay even some of your expenses to go to other contests. Sorry...this hobby isn't about the money. If you want to go to a show, go. If you want to offer to judge, do so. The hobby isn't about money. The only time I've heard of anyone covering any costs is when a show has extended an offer to a celebrity to appear, and that's not someone coming in to judge. Any time money gets involved in paying judges...it's not a fair show. You can go on all day about how honest you might be, but to be perfectly honest, by "offering your services" the entire jist of this thread is suspect.

As for honesty vs. dishonesty when it comes to judging, there's a reason NNL's are so popular because there are no judging teams.

I don't build models for winning hardware. That's not why I like this hobby or why I build. I have to wonder about people whose pure motivation is getting a trophy for their model. It's a lot less work to go buy yourself a trophy if you really want one. Most modelers are tickled pink when their model is photographed and appears in a magazine.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Zoom Zoom

[E St. Kruiser50]

Personally, I don't see it as this big-a-deal.

Most contests in my area are fairly honest. Yeah, there's been a few cheaters but they've been weeded out, and most everyone here knows who they are when they show up. And yes the judges are usually the same guys year after year, with the same biases, and admit it, 'cause no one's perfect , but WE CHOOSE TO ENJOY EACH OTHER, and put our attitudes on "MR. NICE GUY.

I even have my biases too when I judge, and tell everyone, but do my best to be fair to everyone.

Most of my building buddies and I agree that when you enter a contest, you're agreeing to their rules and their decisions...END OF DISCUSSION.

Besides, why complain and get yourself in a "Dither" "OVER PLASTIC " .

KEN, I used to feel the same as you some years ago, but came to the conclusion that "LIFE IS TO SHORT TO REALLY GIVE A RIP THIS MUCH" .

I AND MY BUDDIES GO TO HAVE A GOOD TIME, NOT TO WHINE INSESSANTLY OVER CONTESTS RESULTS OR FAIRNESS.

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, THIS IS JUST PLASTIC .

WE USE THE CONTESTS AS A WAY TO GET TOGETHER, CATCH-UP, AND "EAT" .

I have no personal "BEEF" with you Ken, but I think this is the kinda post that continues to keep people stired up over "STUPID TOYZ" and self-centered personal opinions, instead of "JUST BUILDING AND HAVING FUN" .

I CAN SEE THE YOUNG GUYS GETTING WORKED UP OVER THINGS LIKE THIS, BUT OLDER GUY'S LIKE US SHOULD BE SO-WAY-PAST THIS THINKING AND ATTITUDE.

Yeah, there'll always be cheaters and unfairness, but why do some here continue to focus on the negative and the "GLASS BEING HALF EMPTY" .

I discovered that having a generally "PISSY ATTITUDE" about the "LITTLE THINGS OF LIFE", that my over-all QUALITY OF MY LIFE REALLY SUCKED....SO I QUIT IT - LIFE IS EXTREMELY GOOD NOW .

I think if we spent more time focusing on the positive, and made our "NUMBER ONE GOAL TO HAVE FUN WITH OUR FRIENDS AND REMEMBER THIS IS JUST A HOBBY"...WE'D ALL BE A LOT HAPPIER .

IT SURE DOES WORK FOR MY BUDDIES AND I....BUT WE DO HAVE ANOTHER LIFE BESIDES PLASTIC, AND GET OUR SELF-WORTH FROM ....."WAY MORE MEANINGFULL SOURCES OF VALUE, THAN PLASTIC AND SILLY AWARDS".

My 2 cts.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Treehugger Dave

[FloridaBoy]

Bob, Zoom Zoom

First, I can see how some people can read my treatise and come up with that I am a mercenary. I asked only for reimbursement for gasoline expenses, and a place to sleep, even it it is a chair, and I would feed myself. I live on a fixed income, and am willing to donate the time and energy needed to at least provide my judging system, and expect nothing in return except for my outright out of pocket expenses for gas and tolls. It ain't about the money, and anyone who knows me can testify to that. Second, I am no celebrity by any means, and to infer that is unfair by any description of the word. I am offering work and the objective judging system I have edited over the years. Even you can recognize the value of a fully impartial judge not local nor knowing anyone. All I would ask to maintain the integrity of the contest is that I don't judge NASCAR autos as I know ZERO about them.

Second, with regard to removing my comment for a deal, please read the above, and I will wrest on my integrity I have earned down here over the years. I am well aware of the budgets of clubs and asking only for the money for gas and tolls, which amount to about $100. which to me is pure actual reimbursement, and I am still absorbing my live, dress and eat expenses during the contest. Frankly, I don't think the hobby is where it could get an out of town judge. I will not withdraw my comment, for it is thought through and made as a genuine offer to help anyone as my offer is my guarantee of impartiality and integrity.

Third, NNL's are more impartial, but less detailed. Down here, NNL judging is defined by the audience and contestants voting on a car ususally from afar. They are not allowed to inspect cars closely or touch them, and often our club talked about entering a slammer with a shiny paint job and/or a novel approach to get the win, despite not seeing detailing, workmanship, attention to reality, and so on. I think the best approach is done by a team of judges, all who inspect a car at the same time, as done in the Ridler Award or Oakland Roadster Show. Or as an alternate, one judge comes up with a finalist or two out of his assigned cars, then a winner or winners are selected from the group. Better than individual judging or audience participants judging. The way NNLs are presented down here in South Florida make me sick. Just paint a car red, shine it up and go. I am not denigrating past winners down here as many many deserved models won, but I have seen very questionable tactics. One rampant example of localism was Wayne Stevenn's 48 Chev custom which won its class at Salt Lake, lose out to the out of the box Legion model.

Fourth, even though you don't build for the hardware, I would assume you like the rest of us, build at contest level. Personally, I enjoy the attention my models get from my peers despite winning or not, as I try to raise my own personal bar each car. But I also build cars to my own style, and often they are not politically correct, but reflect my taste and mood. Ever since 1962 I have never been that conventional, and have had both positive and negative response to my work, and listen to every word and digest it. That is the value of contests for me. My days of going for the gold are long past me, and I am trying to prove to myself that I still have a few good cars still inside me at my advanced age. My models have won and been in mags, but the real reward is when people see my non-competitve cars on display from the past and recognize them. Even more, my son is looking at my work when I was his age and wants to compete with "Old Dad", and he will get my support and assistance. Non=metal rewards are worth a lot more to me now.

Bob, if I raised some suspicions, I would rather not travel just to judge a contest, as I am old, have health issues, and medical needs sometimes, and the trouble to travel is very inconvenient. And if someone from rather far away takes me up on my offer, I know as the date approaches, I will start to regret it, but if I can be of assistance to maintain or restore the image of integrity to a contest, that prevails over my inconvenience. I would rather stay in the comfort zone of my own home and build any day of the week.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

[Harry P.]

Ken... possibly a dumb question here, but I mean it seriously:

If the situation is as bad as you describe (and I have no reason to doubt you)... why in the world do you bother with it? Why enter contests at all if you feel, going in, that the system is rigged, dishonest or unfair? Seems to me like you could save yourself a whole lot of hand-wringing if you just forget the contest scene and build for your own enjoyment, not for the judgement of others.

[Jairus]

I agree with Harry.

If I don't like the rules, I don't play in the sand box!

It's suppose to be fun and that is why it's called a "hobby".

[cruz]

Some people just take this thing too seriously, we are grown men playing with little cars, isn't that enough fun???

[FloridaBoy]

To both Jarius and Harry,

First of all, I am deeply honored and grateful that you reviewed my post, and took the time to a reply and your responded.

I strongly believe in model car contests for a multitude of reasons, and have a deep sorrow witnessing its decline in this area, although I am not sure about other areas. I have been to western North Carolina and western Pennsylvania and obaserved the hobby is thriving there, but here we seem to have more resources, availability, denseness of population and still no viable major contests which represent our area in the last years. I would love to man up and have a contest worthy of this area, but I have not the charisma, leadership, energy, health required to do so at this time.

I believe in contests as long as they are viable and just, because they not only promote the hobby from without, but elevate the hobby from within, for the long term it gives modelers the chance to connect in real terms which is sort of what we do on this forum, but we don't meet. Jarius, I have read of yours and Gregg's exploits when you take field trips to selected contests around the US, and hopefully you can see the benefit.

I was brought up to not stand back with the rest of the sheep, but to take a stand when wrongs are committed and do whatever I can to be part of the solution rather than the problem. This has gotten me both in trouble and also been rewarding. I have had some success when I confronted known cheaters, bit they still operate behind my back when I am not preent. When one participated in other contests, without me there, he went back to the old habits.

Overall, I still attend model car contests whenever they within driving distance, and do not compete, rather I just display my old Pactra winners and trophies, sell off my old kits, hold a seminar, display my new work, or even on occasions, judge. For example, back in the seventies, just about everyone wrote off surfing contests as too commercial, but the sport declined. Only when the aspect of competition arose again, the spirit of compettng brought about advancement in the sport, as well as exposure in mainstream America.

If we all allowed cheating and other or inappropriate behavior continue unchecked, it will escalate and continue to discourage potential modelers. The Palm Beach/Broward/Miami Dade Couny metropolitan area, which boasts a conglomerate population of over 5 million has way too few hobby shops and fewer local contests. As you both know, this is the area that once spawned Augie Hiscano, Bob Kuronow and several other notable contributors to the hobby as well as some darn nice models. I think to put my head in the sand and recluse would only lead this area to fester in its decline.

Hopefully by making some aware of the problem, particularly those who have the ability to make changes, and hold events, and if those very people listen to at least one word of what I have to say, based on years of observation and direct experience, hopefully positive changes and awareness will come about and encourage growth in the hobby down here. All will benefit, including hobby shops, internet mail order providers, aftermarket producers, and even me, as I do not want to return to those dark days of the early seventies again where no model kits could be found anywhere.

I have no self interest here, except to ensure I have plenty of resources to obtain new kits, tools, supplies and most of all to connect with other modelers to share techniques, workmanship points, valuable information and inspiration to try something new. Also, when you reach my age, there is this unkonwn drive to pass down the legacy over the years to others as I have leaned myself.

It sounds corny, but what the #@$#@#@ I really do not care. Right now I live in the Boca Raton Deerfield Beach area which is very dense in population, and the closest hobby shop with model cars is 40 miles from here. When I moved here in 1988, there were about 4 hobby shops, and one of them specialized only in plastic models.

I am not only spouting off, I am doing what I can to improve the hobby by articulating my observations of mine and others, and with awareness hopefully some attention will be given and progress will come back. Although I would live to hold my own contest, I offer myself to assist with everything I have.

I hope this addersses your comments directly. I still love contests, and the most part every contestant is on the up and up, it is those few "bad apples" who operate in their own self interest that spoil it for everyone else.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

Edited November 6, 2009 by FloridaBoy

[Chillyb1]

If I don't like the rules, I don't play in the sand box!

Maybe my reading of this is all wrong, but I don't think this adage applies. By definition cheating is NOT playing by the rules. I realize there have been other points made about contests and model judging, but the title is "Cheating in Model Car Contests."

That said, if it weren't for cheating I'd have never had national-contest recognition! Somebody decided to cheat by entering a model I built as his own. The upshot was that I got second place at the GSL XXII. Bad for the hobby, to be sure, but good for me.

If we don't all have the necessary personal integrity, then cheaters will be able to pass off others' work as their own without detection. There aren't many ways I can think of (without requiring burdensome proof of each model's provenance) to prevent it.

Is it really a rampant problem?

[Harry P.]

If you're disillusioned by the state of affairs at other contests, but you still have the "contest bug," then starting up your own contest sounds like a good way to go.

Get the word out, tell your friends, tell your friends to tell their friends, maybe get a hobby shop to sponsor or host the event... and institute your judging system. Who knows, you might just create the next great contest! Good luck!

[Ddms]

This hobby, like all skilled crafts hobbies, is in trouble, faced with a bad economy, a shrinking market and intense competition from every direction. Why add to the problem by trivializing your own hobby - and the people in it - with demeaning phrases like "it's only plastic" and "they're just toys"?

A well-built model car display is often the product of hundreds of hours of work, and maybe thousands of hours spent learning the skills that went into it. IMO, to turn a blind eye on cheating is to say "Ethical standards don't matter. This is a ###### hobby and our work counts for nothing." Is that a message we want to send along to the next generation?

It's a simple matter of self-respect.

[Rider]

Ken, your current situation of corruption sounds like a typical situation in the State of Florida. This grass roots example of dishonesty and corruption just adds fuel to this preverbal fire down there. More then one investigate reporting team over the past 20yrs has done documentary reports on the corruption of the State of Florida from local county elections to the police to the federal and state voting system, why should a model contest be any different.

I mean no disrespect towards you personally with my statements, but as Harry asked, why bother?

[Dr. Cranky]

Here are my 2 cents worth:

Model building is for fun. I enjoy looking at models and I enjoy building my models.

I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would ever want to cheat.

And if somebody cheats, they are only doing themselves harm . . . .

MODELS + FRIENDSHIPS + HOBBY = FUN!

[FloridaBoy]

Guys,

Regarding the "toys" comments, I have mixed feelings. If one were to see the time and diligence put in to my model building, (hopefully very soon) ever since the early sixties, it would be quite apparent it is not trivialized, and now with only so much time left on this planet, time spent on any model is now even MORE important. My models are a part/extension of me, an expression of my perception of creativity, and a very viable means of spending time alone or even when ill, it gives me solace.

On the other hand, I have as recently as 2005 laid on a Emergency Room Table with a congestive heart failure, heard my own "code blue" called in, and then even declared dead by one attending nurse which I heard, but one doctor said "keep trying" and the defribrillator brought me back to full consciousness. I heard them declare me dead and was explained later that my brain didn't die but my heart did.

From that perspective, I have a new lease on life, and trying to make it worthwhile in everything I do. In the big picture of life, my car is a collection of metal, leather, rubber and plastic which gets me places, my bed is a place to sleep and my pastimes are "toys" so to speak, because it is not worth it as I have seen to get into fistfights at contests over a trivial point of disagreement.

I love building model cars and always will, and until I can't do it anymore, I will probably spend my last minute of being able to move sanding down a fender. If some of you young'uns out there are still in it for 20 - 50 years like some of us here on the forum, you have the long term committment and dedication to be as irascible as we are. All I am asking for is that the model car contests held here be dedicated to fairness and follow through.

This problem down here causing decline based on my conversations with many is primarily attributable to one or two people, who run things now. All they have to know is that it is going on, rather than be in denial. I sure hope I have the strength to do my part in the months to come, and know I have to crawl before I walk, and walk before I run.

Take a close look at the past five years of Model Car Magazine (and others) and you can see the great attributes and characteristics of this great hobby - even to the point of photography, writing and editing, fabrication of just about every kind of material, research and ingesting history. Only model railroading comes close, well at least in my book.

Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman

khart talks about his pet peeve, in which he is miffed at club members entering their own contest, for obvious reasons. Down here, if that would have happened at the last contest I attended, the grand total entry would be 40 cars from a sister club. This contest was highly publicized and got only 3 or 4 lone wolves. Heck, there are no hobby shops left to leave pamphlets.............

Now it seems the typcial builder buys a model discounted at Wally World or Michaels, airbrushes his own paint concoction, and enters a contest on hearsay and rarely pamphlets or ads in papers. We are losing our connection, too.

[Greg Cullinan]

Ken thanks for being open with your dislikes about this hobby. As a newer modeler I had kind of fiqured it is as you describe. I went to my first car show last month and brought my son,his friend and my two nephews. The weather was terrible(online Goodguys advertised rain or shine) and after a 2 hour drive in the rain we got there and were told it was closing in a hour and we can come in full price. Then to the make it take it table I bring 4 young men (5,6,9,11). When the lady running the table found my brother in law putting his sons(5,6) models in his bag to build at home she treated us like criminals. Granted I just spent 70$ to look at a handful of cars for a hour in the rain. We were willing to give are all to this life and we were spit on like they don't want us.

Edited November 6, 2009 by ponyxpress

[Greg Cullinan]

Khart can I count on you. Lol. I decided not to make light of others feelings though.

[kerc]

Some people just take this thing too seriously, we are grown men playing with little cars, isn't that enough fun???

Everything is serious in the internets.

[cruz]

Everything is serious in the internets.

Yeah, I see, guess I'll just shut the heck up.....

[Harry P.]

Yeah, I see, guess I'll just shut the heck up.....

Shut up? Marcos–No way!

Everyone enjoys the hobby at his own level. Some build just to fill some spare time, some take it more seriously, and some take it very seriously. And then there's the "lunatic fringe"...

But when it comes to posting our opinions and views, no matter how seriously (or not) we take model building, everyone's comments count equally! (Except for George... he's just goofy!)

Just kidding, George! You da man!!!

[E St. Kruiser50]

I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE SOME OF HARRY'S BIRTHDAY PIZZA

[crazyjim]

Back in the day some of my builds were entered in LHS contests and I was able to win some gold and ribbons. But I haven't been to or heard about a local contest in years. It doesn't matter to me anymore because I build for me and only me. Maybe I should try to sign up or volunteer to be a judge?

[beefheart22]

I am a bit naive on this topic, but isn't Olympic Figure skating for keeps, model cars for fun?

Edited November 6, 2009 by beefheart22

[Modelmartin]

What is in the water down there in Florida? The way Ken describes it, it sounds like the Royal Court of Louis Quinze(15th) with all the intrigues going on.

I have heard of and seen a few instances of cheating at contests AND NNLs. Yes, cheating at NNL events - displaying a model built by someone else with your name on it. Tsk! Tsk! For the most part all of the events I have attended in the last 30 years almost continuously have been , at worst, well intentioned and more typically, well run. The quality of judging is pretty variable. The quality of voting is pretty dodgy, too!! In all cases I think everyone was doing the best they knew how. All in all I have seen very little of what Ken describes.

I think most of us go to contests and NNL events to hang out with like-minded people. Our hobby is pretty lonely. Not very many people do what we do and when we do it , it is a solitary pursuit. I always have a good time at a model show.

When we want to go for the gold at a contest it is very advisable to know something about the contest. Who is running it and judging it? What type of builds or subjects do well at that contest? In other words you have to build for the particular contest if your intent is to win. Certain types of builds do better at IPMS shows. Certain types of builds do better at GSL, etc, etc. If you build what you like and bring it along you can't expect to win and that is fine. I do that all of the time. Once in a while I am surprised with a placing here and there and that is great.

In conlusion, it sounds like model builders are a pretty typical cross-section of humanity.

[kerc]

I am a bit naive on this topic, but isn't Olympic Figure skating is for keeps. Model cars is for fun?

Hahahahahaaha!