Dealing with snowy weather

[Simon]

Hi folks, snow has arrived here in Britain. So what??? you might ask? Well, though we get it most years, snowfall here is considered big news - the TV news headlines are dominated by snow news, with reports of people being cut off from civiliastion and even having to spend the night trapped in their cars on the motorways. Rail services are being cancelled, and the police are advising everybody to stay at home and not travel unless it's absolutely essential.

So, sounds like a severe snowfall doesn't it? Roads and fences buried deep under waist-deep snow? Actually, it was 6 to 7 inches. Now I would guess that for many people in the world, including some parts of the US, 6 to 7 inches of snow isn't worth more than a few comments during the evening weather forecast, and certainly wouldn't stop people going to work, shopping, or anything else. And yet for the second time in 10 months, Britain has ground to a halt.

Is this attitude common elsewhere? Is it a reaction to increasing health and safety regulations making people generally more cautious and less willing to 'risk' going out in bad weather? Maybe it's a lack of awareness of how to deal with it - I don't know anybody here who uses winter tyres/snow tyres, and because the snow only ever lasts for a week or so, we are not really used to driving in thick snow for any length of time.

Anyway, I now have to drive over a mile to see my optometrist - wish me luck!

Simon

[Guest promodmerc]

It's worse here where I live (Kansas City Missouri area.) Back in the '70s-80's we use to get some big snows. Now we average around one maybe two 4-6 snows a season. The rest are way less amounts.

If we get so much as in inch it's constant field reports on how bad the roads are, people can't drive in it, you see more people with SUV's and 4 wheel drive trucks in ditches, medians & what have you.

You would think armageddon had hit.

[Peter Lombardo]

Everything is “relativeâ€. In Maine or Vermont snow is a way of life in the winter time and they are equipped to handle it and the citizens are used to it. As you move south in America, snow and ice become more of an event then normal winter weather.

Rain can be a big deal in areas like Arizona where it is not an everyday experience. Great Britain has sure had more than its share of extreme weather lately.

I need to move to a tropical island somewhere in the Pacific and get away from the cold and nasty weather. With the extreme cold and snow in Europe, makes you wonder about the “Global Warming†gathering in Copenhagen.

Personally, I think they are the biggest source of hot air on the planet….but that is just me.

[roadhawg]

I travel all over the United States, so I get to deal with all of it, but I live in the south. Around here, it IS a big deal....people are actually afraid they'll die if they don't get to the store for milk and bread. (The longest I've ever been snowed in here was 1 day...)

In all fairness though, we usually get ice, not snow.....or at least a mixture of the two. Its much more difficult dealing with ice than snow. My ex-father in law (from Michigan) used to laugh at me, and say 'You southern boys just can't drive in the snow, can you?"....to which I'd answer "No, we can't...but Y'ALL can't drive when its DRY....and it's dry WAY more than it snows!"

[disabled modeler]

Hi Mike........can we include christmas shopper drivers with the lists of dangerous driving conditions? kind-of seems like from november to march in my area drivers loose their minds and common sense. i can relate to the winter conditions....ice, snow, heavy rain, ect. are dangerous in itself then ad drivers that are not concentrating on driving.........really bad conditions....there are a few people that can use a cellphone and drive, but there is only a few....me myself i think if one cant multi task dont.....its just safer for eveyone....ive seen drivers reading papers or books while driving? to me its simple .....we all have the responsibility to pay attention while behind the wheel no-matter what type of weather were driving in....ive been in several serious accidents,most due to lack of concentration of others or due to weather conditions.....yes you all are right....we all must be careful out there.

[JamesW]

Hi Mike........can we include christmas shopper drivers with the lists of dangerous driving conditions? kind-of seems like from november to march in my area drivers loose their minds and common sense. i can relate to the winter conditions....ice, snow, heavy rain, ect. are dangerous in itself then ad drivers that are not concentrating on driving.........really bad conditions....there are a few people that can use a cellphone and drive, but there is only a few....me myself i think if one cant multi task dont.....its just safer for eveyone....ive seen drivers reading papers or books while driving? to me its simple .....we all have the responsibility to pay attention while behind the wheel no-matter what type of weather were driving in....ive been in several serious accidents,most due to lack of concentration of others or due to weather conditions.....yes you all are right....we all must be careful out there.

That's funny, cuz I think EVERYWHERE the minute the snow starts falling everyone seems to forget how to drive and they still want to speed, ESPECIALLY on Black Friday. Just yesterday some girl was on her cell phone and almost ran me off the road. I have a bluetooth stereo in my truck, so I don't have to hold the phone to my ear while driving, although I could. Besides that, I don't know how it is anywhere else, but here it is illegal to talk on your phone while driving. What's even worse is someone texting while driving, I've been guilty of it in the past, but I can text without even looking at the phone. In my personal experience, it's the people that are in a hurry that end up being late either because they get pulled over or get into an accident. Last week a guy decided he was in a BIG hurry and passed me on a double yellow doing about 50 in a 25. Apperently he didn't realize this is a KNOWN cop zone, the cop whipped a u-turn RIGHT in front of me, got pulled over and I laughed my a$$ off about it. If the cop had seen him pass me he not only would've gotten a speeding ticket, but a reckless driving ticket too. I've done my share of speeding, but have not done so in about 7 years. I lost my license once due to unpaid tickets. It's not worth it.

Edited December 18, 2009 by grimreaper

[vizio93]

Well here in North Carolina we get about 4-6 good snows a year. Today were supposed to get 6"-8" inches and in the county's above us 8"-10". As long as I got some food and a model to work on I'm good . I'll go out to a parking lot to play around a little and maybe do some figure 8's, but I don't drive like an idiot

[MikeMc]

SNOW??????????

What the hell is that????

[charlie8575]

And the answer for our region...we don't know yet!

We woke up a couple mornings ago to a surprise dusting that mostly blew way. No big deal.

The storm hitting the DelMarVa Penninsula is winding its way up the Atlantic. Depending on how it hits, everything west of Cape Cod will get anywhere from a few inches (like 3-4") or two feet. It'll all depend on the wind currents.

In the meantime, once I'm home tonight, to ensure there are few problems, I'm parking on the correct side of the street (I just LOVE on-street parking) and will do everything possible to avoid moving the car to be on the safe side for the next couple of days.

Charlie Larkin

[beefheart22]

Snow is a normal thing where I grew up. A few big dumps that could be measured past 6" every year. Usually comes at the same times each year. We know they're coming. I think a lot of people up here don't even bother with snow-tires just because the cities are well equipped and are usually good getting at least the main streets cleared immediately after a storm. Even the townships and counties are good for getting their roads cleaned up in a timely fashion. Unless you live off the paved road... but those people know how to drive in snow.

It's not the snow that worries me, it's freezing rain. I always stay home if there is a chance of rain freezing on the roads, but I also live in Toronto which has a transit system that runs even in the worst conditions. So I call ahead to work to let them know I may be late and let the transit do the driving. Keeps my insurance rates lower. Growing up in the country, we didn't have that luxury, so it was snow days for the kids and white-knuckle driving for the adults.

[Art Anderson]

Hi folks, snow has arrived here in Britain. So what??? you might ask? Well, though we get it most years, snowfall here is considered big news - the TV news headlines are dominated by snow news, with reports of people being cut off from civiliastion and even having to spend the night trapped in their cars on the motorways. Rail services are being cancelled, and the police are advising everybody to stay at home and not travel unless it's absolutely essential.

So, sounds like a severe snowfall doesn't it? Roads and fences buried deep under waist-deep snow? Actually, it was 6 to 7 inches. Now I would guess that for many people in the world, including some parts of the US, 6 to 7 inches of snow isn't worth more than a few comments during the evening weather forecast, and certainly wouldn't stop people going to work, shopping, or anything else. And yet for the second time in 10 months, Britain has ground to a halt.

Is this attitude common elsewhere? Is it a reaction to increasing health and safety regulations making people generally more cautious and less willing to 'risk' going out in bad weather? Maybe it's a lack of awareness of how to deal with it - I don't know anybody here who uses winter tyres/snow tyres, and because the snow only ever lasts for a week or so, we are not really used to driving in thick snow for any length of time.

Anyway, I now have to drive over a mile to see my optometrist - wish me luck!

Simon

I live on the southern edge of the Midwestern "Snow Belt" in the US (that is a band roughly 500 miles wide N-S, that goes across Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northern Illinois, Northern Indiana, Michigan, Northern Ohio, and extends into Pennsylvania, New York and New England. South of me, major snowstorms dropping several inches are perhaps one ot two a season, through here, maybe 3 or 4, but to the Northwest, and certainly in the Great Lakes region, MAJOR snowstorms are an expected way of life in winter (called "Lake Effect" snows)

Lake Effect happens when extremely cold air (20F and below) comes as strong winds over the Great Lakes (Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie and Ontario), where the water is warmer than the air moving over it. When that happens (and I saw it happening over Lake Michigan from the Outer Drive in Chicago 2 weeks ago!) the evaporating water forms clouds, not unlike the cloud of steam off a hot cup of coffee outdoors in winter), and drops prodigious amounts of snow inland on the downwind shores of the lakes.

Lake Effect snow can be capricious: In 2005, I was to meet up with Ismael Gonzalez at Dean Milano's home in Elmhurst Illinois one Tuesday afternoon in February. Living in Mishawaka IN (across the street, literally from the University of Notre Dame and South Bend) which is but 30 miles from the SE shore of southern Lake Michigan --the area of warmest lake water), we got hit with a strong NNW wind of about 30mph, dropping temperatures into the teens F. Looking at The Weather Channel on TV, they were showing snow clouds forming over Lake Michigan NORTH of Holland MI (on Michigan's western shores, the wind carrying the developing snow half the length of the lake (over a hundred miles) south to Michigan City IN, then curving SE to hit us.

That was perhaps the most dramatic snowstorm I have ever seen. Snow so intense, I could not see my own car which was parked a mere 20' from the front of my apartment. I left home at about 8am, stopping at an office where I was doing some freelance work, and could not see a thing, literally, it was like driving in a bowl of milk. At 8am, we had 6" of snow--by noon when I left, to test the forecast that 25 miles west of South Bend, on the Indiana Toll Road, I would run out of the snow, clear driving all the way to the Chicago area--by that time, almost 2 feet of the stuff. Never mind the driving conditions though! In that part of our state, they don't use mere street department trucks for moving snow off the streets--nope--5-ton tandem axle dumptrucks with plow blades mounted under the middle of their frames, traveling in pairs, one per lane (4-lane streets), at perhaps 25mph, at which speed they throw the snow perhaps 25 feet off to the side of the street. The toll road was pretty much the same, but being an east-west superhighway, the snow drifted in behind the plows very rapidly. So, what ordinarily would have been a 30 minute trip west to the Michigan City exit took over an hour. But, once there, the sky immediately cleared, no more snow all the way into Chicago, and out to Elmhurst. Coming back to South Bend/Mishawaka, it was the reverse, only this time, some 40" of the stuff on the ground at home, BUT streets were cleared although very slippery, even our parking lots at the apartment complex had been plowed clean.

Had that snow happened here in Lafayette, 110 miles south of there, we'd have been snowed in for a week perhaps--we don't get nearly that much snow (although we did several times in the 1970's), so even though this city is well equipped with snowplows, they are the more common 2-ton dumptrucks, backed up by every city pickup truck having a plow mounted.

In much of the Midwest US, indeed the Great Plains states, there is little if anything to slow down the wind, the topography is quite flat, no mountains, only gently rolling hills and river valleys, nothing much rises above the horizon. Even 35mph winds can create insurmountable drifts, the snow drifting on the lee side of any object, from farmhouses, to overpass ramps, even farmer's fences can create drifts. In a lot of places, "snow fences" are erected every late fall, and taken down once warm spring weather arrives--snow fence used to be made from 2" wooden slats, tied together with twisted steel wire, although anymore, they use perforated plastic to create snow drifts out in the middle of farmers' fields, the idea being to make the drifts happen, and taper off before they reach the roads. This, along with snowplows everywhere, is essential, given that nearly everyone in the US relies on an automobile, SUV or pickup truck to get to work, back home, and too the supermarket and such. Even the railroads are not immune--across the snow belt, and in the northern Great Plains, railroads operate MASSIVE rotary snowblowers in order to clear the tracks, particularly since blizzard winds can fill deep cuts in the landscape to the brim, and that can be upwards of 15' or more deep.

It's different in the southern US, where such snow events are rare--there they have little in the way of snow removal equipment, the likelihood of a major snowstorm is too low to warrant spending lots of money on snow removal--an inch or two of snow becomes an emergency, often the streets and roads are simply closed, until the snow melts, which it usually does in a day or so.

As much as I dislike snow (around here, SNOW is a 4-letter expletive to many people!), I have to admit, a 6" fresh snowfall can be quite beautiful, for the first day or so--especially at this time of year, the Christmas holidays. Ten years ago, I had the privilege of helping a friend, who owned at the time, a 1907 CarterCar, red with lots of shiny brass trim, drive it to their neighborhood Catholic Cathedral, and pose the car on the frozen, snowcovered front lawn, for a Christmas Card picture--awesome pic, although my print is buried deep in a box somewhere right now.

But, yeah, we get more than our share of the white stuff, and our difficulties getting around in it (and the accompanying ice) probably is as miserable at times as what you are experiencing right now in the UK. And yes, every year, many drivers will have forgotten everything they ever knew about driving in snow--and that means "peak season" for every body shop in town!

Art

[Harry P.]

Hi folks, snow has arrived here in Britain. So what??? you might ask? Well, though we get it most years, snowfall here is considered big news - the TV news headlines are dominated by snow news, with reports of people being cut off from civiliastion and even having to spend the night trapped in their cars on the motorways. Rail services are being cancelled, and the police are advising everybody to stay at home and not travel unless it's absolutely essential.

Simon

Has anyone alerted the Global Warning "experts" in Copenhagen?

[Art Anderson]

And the answer for our region...we don't know yet!

We woke up a couple mornings ago to a surprise dusting that mostly blew way. No big deal.

The storm hitting the DelMarVa Penninsula is winding its way up the Atlantic. Depending on how it hits, everything west of Cape Cod will get anywhere from a few inches (like 3-4") or two feet. It'll all depend on the wind currents.

In the meantime, once I'm home tonight, to ensure there are few problems, I'm parking on the correct side of the street (I just LOVE on-street parking) and will do everything possible to avoid moving the car to be on the safe side for the next couple of days.

Charlie Larkin

Charlie,

I can only imagine what New Bedford would be like in a major blizzard!!! No Sir, I won't be coming to visit you this winter, just so I can have the experience!!!

Actually, at the present time, I don't own a car (no real need, as I can reach anywhere I need to go in my city by CityBus, and prefer riding my 24spd mountain bike --with full suspension BTW--to commute to work whenever possible, BECAUSE I still can, at the age of 65!), but even walking the half block or so to the bus stop can be an expedition in a deep snow, as I live at the top of the hill, on the bluffs overlooking the storied Wabash River, but down in a holler, the ground across the street from me being about 25' above my head where I am sitting here, keyboarding this in.

You are right about the ice though--we can get that from freezing rain, but also from the freeze-thaw-refreeze cycles that follow any major snowfall. When every paved surface turns into a skating rink, it's white-knuckle time here, walking, or in a motor vehicle (that nice bike stays nice and warm and dry indoors until the ice and snow are gone).

Art

[Twist67]

Hi there,

Lol "snow" has also arrived in Germany today......Lol,because in my opinion it isn´t real snow....Okay the landshape seems to be white.....but that´s all,it´s cold and there´s some ice on the streets....But hey,it´s winter and near christmas,so that´s seems to be normal...I myself like a lot to drive in snowy conditions but every time you have to look at those idiots who going crazy with that little bit of white powder.

Here in Germany since some time snow tires are restrictet from the insurances...In the case of an accident and you don´t have snow tires on winter roads they could stop paying for the accident costs....so you better go with snow or winter tires...I put them on to my car last month and will them remove on march next year.So that´s normal and if you are prepared with the weather it will be no big deal......

Cheers,Chris

[CAL]

Hi folks, snow has arrived here in Britain. So what??? you might ask? Well, though we get it most years, snowfall here is considered big news - the TV news headlines are dominated by snow news, with reports of people being cut off from civiliastion and even having to spend the night trapped in their cars on the motorways. Rail services are being cancelled, and the police are advising everybody to stay at home and not travel unless it's absolutely essential.

So, sounds like a severe snowfall doesn't it? Roads and fences buried deep under waist-deep snow? Actually, it was 6 to 7 inches. Now I would guess that for many people in the world, including some parts of the US, 6 to 7 inches of snow isn't worth more than a few comments during the evening weather forecast, and certainly wouldn't stop people going to work, shopping, or anything else. And yet for the second time in 10 months, Britain has ground to a halt.

Is this attitude common elsewhere? Is it a reaction to increasing health and safety regulations making people generally more cautious and less willing to 'risk' going out in bad weather? Maybe it's a lack of awareness of how to deal with it - I don't know anybody here who uses winter tyres/snow tyres, and because the snow only ever lasts for a week or so, we are not really used to driving in thick snow for any length of time.

Anyway, I now have to drive over a mile to see my optometrist - wish me luck!

Simon

Yup it was already a news story here where we got a couple (4 inches IIRC) that more or less closed down the city.

Yeah, you can get around in 4 inches pretty easy but it's not worth it. Normal conditions it takes me 20-25 mins to get to work and gets bumped up to hours with even a little snow on the ground. Once last year with a couple inches of wet heavy slick stuff it took 4 1/2 hours to get home. I can deal with the snow fine it's all the other idiots out there you have to worry about.

Most of that 4 1/2 hour delay was a chicklet in a RWD 320 Kompressor with 20s and summer perfomance tires trying to get up a hill on a road where there is just nowhere to push her stupid ass off the side of the road.

[FordWagonNut]

Snow......good ol' snow.

I have lived in northern IL my whole life, most of us just learned how to deal with it. But like a few people said on here, some drivers check out of hotel reality and drive like morons. All my cars have been rear drive and I also drove a limousine in the stuff, never really a problem.

Common sense, sadly, its not so common anymore.

When I was at college in 2007, down state here in IL. There was a major snow/ice storm. It was so bad, we did have a snow day. For over 20 years, Western IL did not have a snow day. So what did 11,000 18-25 year olds do? Keg parties in the snow. The school buses were not going anywhere but you did see the farm boys and people like me with BIG RWD cars out. Again, we are used to the stuff.

As for Mr. Mikes comment on salt. I HATE it when so much is used. That when it dries up, it turns into a foggy haze of sorts, and everything is covered in it.

This is what a real storm is. God I would NEVER want to deal with this ever in my life. Sorry if it brings up any bad memories with anyone.

[my name is nobody]

SNOW??????????

What the heck is that?

Please allow me to show you:

Greetings from Montana, USA.

[Eshaver]

Chuck does it really snow that much over I- 80 ??? I don't really know as I never had any runs through " Big Sky " country. I did however get stuck in Flag staff Arizona on I - 40 . Ed Shaver

[my name is nobody]

Chuck does it really snow that much over I- 80 ??? I don't really know as I never had any runs through " Big Sky " country. I did however get stuck in Flag staff Arizona on I - 40 . Ed Shaver

I'm actually north of I-80, as it runs through Wyoming.

were closer to I-90, and yes, it do snow around here.

However, this accumulation is due to drifting snow, A bad blizzard with 75 mph winds.

and this was a few years ago. We didnt get any Hurricane relief funds or anything.

working for the county road crew afforded me many opportunities just like this.

Edited December 18, 2009 by CJTORINO

[FordWagonNut]

Please allow me to show you:

Greetings from Montana, USA.

OH MY GAWD!

I remember living in Laramie, Wyoming in '98 and '03, they would close off I-80 and most of the roads coming in/out of Laramie. But since we lived in the valley, I never saw the 'big snow'.

[plasticfrog]

It's worse here where I live (Kansas City Missouri area.) Back in the '70s-80's we use to get some big snows. Now we average around one maybe two 4-6 snows a season. The rest are way less amounts.

If we get so much as in inch it's constant field reports on how bad the roads are, people can't drive in it, you see more people with SUV's and 4 wheel drive trucks in ditches, medians & what have you.

You would think armageddon had hit.

Hey...Dan Im with you we are getting lots of snow right now(Bowling Green,MO.)

[charlie8575]

Charlie,

I can only imagine what New Bedford would be like in a major blizzard!!! No Sir, I won't be coming to visit you this winter, just so I can have the experience!!!

Actually, at the present time, I don't own a car (no real need, as I can reach anywhere I need to go in my city by CityBus, and prefer riding my 24spd mountain bike --with full suspension BTW--to commute to work whenever possible, BECAUSE I still can, at the age of 65!), but even walking the half block or so to the bus stop can be an expedition in a deep snow, as I live at the top of the hill, on the bluffs overlooking the storied Wabash River, but down in a holler, the ground across the street from me being about 25' above my head where I am sitting here, keyboarding this in.

You are right about the ice though--we can get that from freezing rain, but also from the freeze-thaw-refreeze cycles that follow any major snowfall. When every paved surface turns into a skating rink, it's white-knuckle time here, walking, or in a motor vehicle (that nice bike stays nice and warm and dry indoors until the ice and snow are gone).

Art

Actually, Art, if you want real fun in this neck of the woods, try Fall River, which is all hills (New Bedford is pretty flat, at least by comparison.)

The backroads of Dartmouth and Westport after a snowfall can be pure joy, too. But very pretty. If driving isn't too bad, I might go load my FD (my only properly-functioning camera at the moment) and go shoot off a roll of film around the countryside.

When I finally got in tonight (I had a very strange, roundy-round drive home because of another errand I had to run,) I could only park on the hydrant-side of the street. Tomorrow, I'm going to try to move over when a spot opens up. New Bedford requires you park on the street side with no fire hydrant if there's more than about four or five inches of snow.

The good news? The snow won't start until late tomorrow night, so that buys me some time.

I'll be moving back towards home in about a month, and my first stop will be my folks until I can get re-situated with work, money and everything else. I can honestly say I'm not going to miss on-street parking.

Charlie Larkin

[Modelmartin]

In the midwest the snowplow trucks are used to collect garbage in the summers. In New York City they put plows on actual garbage trucks when it snows!!! I was in NYC back in '82 I think, and they had two snowfalls in a week totalling a bit over a foot. I was having a blast whipping around in my Scirocco but man, were New Yorkers having a tough time figuring out how to drive in it!! They can't really plow in Manhattan because there is no place to leave it so they have to haul it all away.

Back in 1990 we had a 28" snowfall on Halloween night. I loved it. I had a SAAB 99 at the time and it could go anywhere that that a 4X4 had already gone through even when it had not been plowed. I love driving in snow. I am a frustrated rally driver at heart and my parking brake gets used a lot when it snows and not for parking!! Traffic is always a problem - not many people love the snow like I do when they are driving. I haven't been stuck since I was a teenager - I am 52 now.

[Madd Trucker]

I livie in Fredricksburg Va and they are driveing like idiots out there but then they cant drive in warm sunny weather either I was going to go to the Midnight modelers meeting as wel but wih an expected possable 20 inchehs I may not make it

[John E. Bowers Jr.]

I left work at about 10:30 here in southern Maryland and a usual ten minute drive to the house took me ~thirty minutes in a Camaro Z/28 6 speed. Yeah, I could have been the one who was slowing someone down behind me but with three hundred horsepower and rear wheel drive with summer performance tires and four inches of brand new snow on unplowed curvy, hilly roads I got sideways several times. The car is now garaged until spring hits!