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Show/Contest Judges - Touch Or No Touch?


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i gotta agree with Andy on all points... having judged numerous contests, there're times when 2-3 3-4 models are in contention, they all have nice paint, good build quality, etc... so, it comes to the underside..seams gone?? detailed?? and on and on...you gotta pick them up!!

i would be EMBARESSED if something fell off one of my builds...i DO like the idea of the elmer's glue tho'...lol

anyway, i think that a judge is gonna handle the model as if it was his/hers anyway[i know I do..]...so, what's the problem??

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Being that my name was the first to get dragged into this .....

Anyone that has viewed the work of Jeff Sauber , Clay Kemp , Ted Lear , John Teresi ,Bill Bergen, etc ,up close and personal , will quickly come to the conclusion that their models are works of art , not toys ! Hundreds of hours are spent creating these pieces. The money spent , I won't even mention , that is their business !

One would not walk into a fine arts gallery and ask to fondle the Rembrandts or Van Goghs , now would they ? It is the same at a model car show , hands off . These models were put on display to be viewed and judged as they sit on the tables , nothing more ! Contestant did'nt use a display or mirror to get the frame up for the judges to view ? Oh Well !, more power and points to the individuals that did .

Last year , I had a hood chipped ,a scoop knocked off , a rear view mirror and part of a roll bar knocked off with a flashlight . I spent an hour reattaching the frame of my ' 40 Ford sedan , plus three side mirrors. This all occured at the Nationals in Columbus. Each of the cars had a Do Not Touch check in the proper box. For some ,this is a power trip , they figure the rules don't apply because they're judges.

While I do not put myself in the same category as a builder like the aforementioned gentlemen , I do build some very nice models. They are mine , and I work very hard on them . They are built to be taken back apart if need be, and are handled by myself in such a manor. When transporting show cars , accidents do occur! I can take the model apart , repair it and put it back together without any further damage to the body, frame , or interior. All the more reason for someone else to not be touching them !

One of these days , someone is going to screw up royal with the wrong individual's model. They are going to be dragged out into the parking lot and beaten silly. Me , I'll just stand there and watch as I laugh myself silly ! You got what you deserved ! Inherent risk only exists with racing the 1:1 cars. Model cars should be safe, just sitting on the table looking pretty for everyone to view and admire.

For those that think this is overboard , so be it . As far as I'm concerned..... I'd rather climb into a phone booth with a full grown grizzly , wearing pork chop panties then mess with one of Harry's Pocher kits. I believe it would be far less painful !

Donn Yost

Lone Wolf Custom Painting

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Lot's of opinions here, but there is a BOTTOM LINE ( At least to me wink.gif ) when entering a contest.

(1) If you don't like what the people do that run the contest - SIMPLE- don't enter.

(2) If winning comes before having a good time, then you're building for the wrong reason - GET ANOTHER HOBBY.

LASTLY, this is about the umteenth time this topic has come up over the years, with everyone sharing their opinions, including those never ever close to a contest ????ohmy.gif , and the same exact opinions always surface from a new group of people, then the topic goes away and we go on with our modeling as if this topic never came up laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif.

Not saying it shouldn't be discussed, or beat to death again biggrin.gif , just funny how some things never change,

INCLUDING CONTEST RULES AND JUDGING rolleyes.gif .

It goes both ways though, I am reading all the time about how contests are not seeing the kinds of numbers they used to. Contests that don't consider why this is happening will continue to shrink until they are two old guys judging each others cars.

My issue with touching is only partly based on potential damage, it is also based on fun sucking nit picking and if an award comes down to who painted their sway bar better, some people should re-evaluate their priorities.

Now I'm not saying the guy who kit bashes an old 1960s metal axle chassis kit, with a more modern detailed chassis should not get some credit for that, but it becomes his responsibilty to show he did it and did it well. However the guy who built the kit as is but perhaps spent his time detailing the interior and motor should not be knocked out because he did not go hog wild on the minimally detailed kit chassis. Sure as a tie breaker the guy with the detailed chassis should get the edge, but touching a model should be an exception not the rule.

Just me, but if judges have to check out the underside of a model, it is kind of like an art critic walking up to a painting and basing his critique on the backside of the canvas, that is not the point of the display. At what point are judges going to ask for the keys so they can hear the exhaust note of the motor?

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I agree with Mister Yost here. I put way too much time and energy into my models to have some yay hoo pick them up at a contest -(I watched a judge nearly rip the door off a beautiful street rodded truck at the IPMS regionals in Cleveland last year,then when he DID get it open,he about wore out the hinges playing with the door)...... My stuff may not be the best on the table, but the LAST thing I want to do is have to repair something I have hundreds of hours in because it was mishandled by some one. I always display on a mirror with the model 'elevated' above that mirror There are some really nice and relatively cheap displays out there that break down flat and can easily be stored for travel........Another thing that drives me nuts--nearsighted people with ball caps on,looking closely at models on the contest table.....I don't know HOW many times I've seen somebody bump a model with their hat bill when they bend over to look at something jes' a 'lil closer.....

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When I started entering contests, I built for them.

I made sure my models were not just pretty on a shelf but could be picked up and looked at without stuff falling off.

The moment your model leaves the workbench it is at risk.

If you think you can display a model at a show hundreds of miles away from home with hundreds of people in attendence and not be at risk...

I always get scared of models on display bases being hit by arms and hands going for the other cars on the table.

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If it's there, it's going to be judged. If it doesn't agree with you, don't enter. Very simple.

Good point on the baseball hat, I can see where that would be a concern.

The judge 'forcing' the door open; if that was my model, I would be ticked off also. Thankfully it was not severely damaged. Having a "Do Not Handle" box is pointless if judges don't respect that.

Our club has a "shelf" class the rules state no handling of the model, it is judged as placed. Perhaps taking advantage of such a category could help those who want their model left alone.

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WOW!!!!! ;):D

Could someone please help me clean up these apples!!! I upset the Cart!

One thing we all have is passion - we wouldn't be here if we didn't. This thread has brought that out. I am very sorry if any of my posts upset anyone.

The things we create hold part of us in them - to be sure! To fully avoid any upset on either the Judges or the Entrants part is to display a model so it shows all the parts you want judged. Be it mirrors, stands, rotisserie or combination there-of. Not having even judges touch models is the only solution to the possibility of damage to a model.

The Mirror Mr. Yost has his models displayed on in his You Tube videos and his website (which is quite inspirational) would be the perfect size - add some risers to one side or both and the viewer can view the car at all angles. then the judge can turn the mirror carefully or just move around the model as it sits on the table.

I can see that overlarge displays - while very eye grabbing - can also take up too much room on the display tables. Governing this would be impossible - we have to be self policing.

Mr. Karmodeler2 - I have never and will never smoke anything - EVER. That is something I'm passionate about. Also - intentionally destroying a model at a show is sick - I was implying the risks we all face in our daily lives - from getting up in the morning - driving to and from work and doing our daily tasks - they all involve risk. When we take models to shows - it involves risk to the models - that is all. I was not implying intentional damage.

If I had 1500 hours in a model - I'd be really pissed if someone damaged it. I would have to remove myself from the area to calm down - I'm afraid that immediate interaction with the perp would get our of hand right quick.

I do not condone at ANY time that a spectator should touch a model at a contest or show - EVER-EVER!!!!!

I thank you all for your input and contributions to this thread.

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Me , David , Me! :D

This goes along with the adage..... Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, someone slaps porkchop panties on you and shoves you in the shark tank !

Besides , if the Griz is wearing panties , I think I could take him , the big sissy ! ;) Putting a scratch in the paint work of one of Harry's Poccher builds would lead to very dire consequences for the offender. I'd rather tackle the bear in the phone booth , thank you very much !

When it comes to the show tables , the Georgia Satellites said it best...... "Don't hand me no lines and keep your hands to yourself "

Donn Yost

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Donn,

would that be you wearing the panties or the bear?......I'm confused!!!! :D

I can see the Grizzly bear fashion show now -

Donn Yost is looking dashing in this years new fashion sensation - the Pork Chop Panties - Available at Victoria's Secret in the meat-britches section. Oh and what do we have here?! A very muscular and tall Grizzly bear chasing Donn down the catwalk wearing a Chicken Breast Bustier with matching thong. He's eying up Donn in those panties!

Oh, Gawd!

Now you guys have my imagination thinking of homosexual Grizzly bears in thongs! I need therapy! ;)

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No issues with a judge handling the model if that is what it takes to properly judge the car. If we go to a full points judging and the underside of a very nice model cannot be seen loses to a glue bomb that displays all judged areas is that the better way? Cars need to be viewed by whatever means necessary, to me it goes with the teritory. Unless it is a diarama or curbside I think it is necessary to handle to view all aspects of the modeling subject. You picked it up to bring it to the show, so it obviously can be handled. That being said, promoters could go over the guidelines to proper handling and contestants could also leave instructions as to fragile or loose pieces.

Edited by PlasticWagens
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Besides , if the Griz is wearing panties , I think I could take him , the big sissy ! :D

When it comes to the show tables , the Georgia Satellites said it best...... "Don't hand me no lines and keep your hands to yourself "

Donn Yost

I wrote my response backwards to you....I should have typed the "bear" first and "you" second. I think it would have had more impact. I knew what you meant, I was just poking fun at you. You and I have the same view as we have PM each other about this. I think when one of the entrants (who think it's okay for judges to handle models) gets his car dropped, chipped, or has fingerprints that will not rub out because he did not wipe his entrant down after the show, will change his way of thinking. Experience will teach him more than we could ever write.

I entered an OOB pick up at GSL that I had spent 4 hours buffing just the cab. You can imagine the amount of time in the rest of the truck. It was in contention for Best Paint. Unfortunately, it was competing against my Aston Martin that won. I would be really ticked off with someone thinking that it was okay to pick this jewel up. It was dark green, so I would know immediately if someone had handled the truck. I always tell judges that I did not spend 60 plus hours of labor for you to put your DNA all over my model. I don't work for the FBI so I don't need your DNA.

I don't go to IPMS events anymore. I take the advice I give. If you don't like the rules, don't play the game. The more modeler's they ostrasize, the less talent they will have.

I agree with the Satellites!!

David

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  • 4 years later...

I personally strive to build my models to best of my ability and we all know how much time, work and effort can go into them. I would not trust a judge to handle my models. I do not personally care if he is a modeler himself because that doesn't say anything about his skill level or how I would like my models to be handled. I'm the same way with my real car. I pretty much do all of my own maintenance. I will not go to any jiffy lube or most mechanics.

I've never entered a competition and I would not enter at the expense of ruining a model.The only person you have to prove to anything to is yourself. However if I do enter one I plan to take pictures in the assembly process and detailed interior photos. So perhaps it will not be necessary for the model to be touched.

Edited by DiscoRover007
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Being a judge multiple times I can tell you that almost all of the guys I have worked alongside with don't want to touch a model. They respect the work and effort that the builder has put into it. Now have had to touch a few multiple times because these guys will fold their info sheets up and stick the model smack dab on top of the info! Whenever I move someone elses work I use my gloves, call me a nerd if you want but I have yet to damage a model.

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I know that this thread is four years old, but if you have detailed your chassis to include brake and fuel lines, e-brake cables and linkages, wiring and other features, you are going to want that judge to look at the underside to determine that it's better than the car next to it with the same quality paint job and none of the underside attention.

-MJS

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I know that this thread is four years old, but if you have detailed your chassis to include brake and fuel lines, e-brake cables and linkages, wiring and other features, you are going to want that judge to look at the underside to determine that it's better than the car next to it with the same quality paint job and none of the underside attention.

-MJS

Yup ! That's why you use a mirror for a base , so they can see that detail ..... Without touching the model ! Four year later .... My opinion hasn't changed one bit ! Hands off !

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Seems to me that lifting it by the roof _of a coupe.sedan or hardtop would be the safest method of handling it without damaging it.

Nope ! Guaranteed my Willys frame hits the deck ! I don't glue them together ! Reasons for such actions were stated in my original post on this thread . Believe me , I am not the only individual that builds this way or thinks this way due to the same considerations !

Forgot to add this .... Best way to pick up a model ? Thumb on the drip edge of the roof , wrap hand around , slide fingers under the frame and lift . Never pick up a model by it's roof or drip edges .

Edited by LoneWolf15
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Well,that is strange. ALWAYS glue the frame to the body do not see any reason not to do so!

How are you to get the build back apart to repair an interior part that has come loose ? What if the windshield gets knocked out , a side window , etc ? With the frame glued to the body , you're going to bust the daylights out the model trying to get it apart .

Are my models going to fall apart when picked up ? Nope ! Are they fragile ? Not really . However , they are mine , and I know how to handle them and do not want anyone else doing so ! Should something happen and one gets damaged , I can easily take it apart , repair it , and put it back together , good as new !

Edited by LoneWolf15
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I've never objected to contest judges picking up any of my models for the purpose of seeing clearly the underside--after all, unless my model is entered as "curbside" I want the judges to see and evaluate the work I've put into the entire underside.

If one has ever attended a concours d'elegance or a carefully judged AACA or single marque club show--those judges go all over the cars being judged, over, under around and through to evaluate all restoration work for correctness and workmanship--and that includes crawling underneath the cars to see the chassis and undersides. I always figure that if they do that at real car shows, I have no problem with a contest judge making a reasonable effort to judge any of my cars completely--and that means "over, under, around and through" at least to the extent possible. I've also been willing to take the risk that yes, my model might get damaged--BUT in over 50 years of entering model cars in contests, I have yet to have a model damaged--yet I am very well aware that it's happened to others. It's also been my understanding that damage to a model by a judge tends to be pretty rare--it doesn't happen at every contest, nor does it happen to every model car entered.

Just my personal beliefs expressed.

Art

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