LEATHERED COVERED INTERIORS

[E St. Kruiser50]

Seems like this thread got "Sorta" side-tracked last week , but GOD says to forgive and forget, as HE'S done for us.

Won't post anything tutorial on this for a while as I think it takes time for dust and feelings to settle.

SOMETHING TO REMEMBER ABOUT ME.

When I post a topic, it's not because I think I'm the best builder out there, or the best at any given discipline.

Lots of builders on this forum are just as good or better than me, it's just not everyone shares how to do it, especially for the new builders, and I enjoy sharing.

The other thing is I'm pretty independant, and like functioning that way. I'm a research person and don't need anyone to tell me where to get something. Anyone who wants to do anything bad enough, will find what they need to do it, AND THEN I'LL SHOW YOU SOME WAYS TO ACCOMPLISH THAT.

That's how I do it, if you want something different, you'll have to check in with someone else on the subject.

Complaints will be ignored like the last time - I DON'T ANSWER COMPLAINTS IT'S JUST PLASTIC AND A HOBBY.

One last thing.

Am I boastful or arrogant about my skills, or proud of my accomplishments????- ABSOLUTELY .

For some reason in the modeling world, it has it seems, become a sin to "BOAST AND BE PROUD .

I THINK BECAUSE WE ARE MEN, AND WERE MADE ARROGANT TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, AND THAT WE SHOULD DISPLAY AND ENJOY THAT MASCULINE CHARACTER TRAIGHT PROUDLY .

Edited March 2, 2010 by Treehugger Dave

[george 53]

Thanks for comin back Dave. Alot of guys were interested in what you had to say, myself among them. Just go head an do your thing when ya feel like it, I'll be here, ready to see how an try my best to learn it! Thanks Bud!!!

[JamesW]

Yeah, what George said.

[Karmodeler2]

When I post a topic, it's not because I think I'm the best builder out there, or the best at any given discipline.

Am I boastful or arrogant about my skills, or proud of my accomplishments????- ABSOLUTELY .

And you wonder why you got smacked down?

PLEASE!!!! You can be informative without being "boastful or arrogant". That's the problem you seem to not understand.

[Crusader101]

IT'S JUST PLASTIC AND A HOBBY.

It seems people forget that sometimes and react as though you are instead presenting a final concept car developmental proposal to one of the Big Three!

I'm looking forward to more of your leather workings and hope you would also share some of your exotic wood technique as well.

[Custom Mike]

And you wonder why you got smacked down?

PLEASE!!!! You can be informative without being "boastful or arrogant". That's the problem you seem to not understand.

Dave, I can see where Karmodeler is coming from here, I was a member of another forum which had one "Master" builder on it, and he was an arrogant as hell guy. Nothing wrong with blowing your own horn, but you've got to remember, the harder you blow that horn, the more people want to shove that horn up the other end. We all started out as glue-bombers, and as long as we remember that little fact, we can pass on our hard-earned knowledge and skills without looking like we're better than anyone else. I personally love your work, and wish I was half as good as you are, but don't consider you to be arrogant about it. But you know how people are, some take boasting as a sign that you think you're better than them, then people start hating you because of it.

I'm waiting for your tutorial on this, I'd love to be able to add it to my arsenal of tricks!

[Harry P.]

Am I boastful or arrogant about my skills, or proud of my accomplishments????- ABSOLUTELY .

For some reason in the modeling world, it has it seems, become a sin to "BOAST AND BE PROUD .

I THINK BECAUSE WE ARE MEN, AND WERE MADE ARROGANT TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, AND THAT WE SHOULD DISPLAY AND ENJOY THAT MASCULINE CHARACTER TRAIGHT PROUDLY .

No offense, but just for the record, I totally disagree with that. Boasting and being arrogant aren't what I would consider to be positive character traits. And we are certainly not all made that way. Just my 2¢.

Now on with the tutorial...

[Jeff Sauber]

The sequel has arrived!!.........................

I wonder if it will be better than the original? and will contain more or less attitude and arrogance?

Guess I'll go grab the skittles and a cold soda....................

[Jeff Sauber]

By the way Dave, restarting this thread with a cocky attitude isn't in your best interest......I hope you have your football helmet and flame suit handy.

Edited March 2, 2010 by J. Sauber

[Zoom Zoom]

ARROGANT PUFFERY? Check.

Useful tutorial about leather covered interiors? Not a chance

I'm absolutely shocked.

[Eric Stone]

Dave, you have to remember different people learn in different ways. I think if you spell out exactly what and where you're getting the most appropriate materials for the job, some people will get those materials and figure the rest out themselves. Other people can find their own materials but want to know exactly how to use them, and will follow step by step instructions if you post them. Some people need ALL the information and will want to follow the whole thing, and a last group have no interest or use in following the tutorial or using that particular technique, so they won't even be following along.

Additionally, some people want detailed written instructions, while others want effective photos and/or diagrams. That's where the in-progress shots are important, and some of the outcry in the last thread revolved around the fact that most of the photos depicted finished projects.

If your style includes a lot of do it yourself attitude and you include that in the tutorial, it won't be an effective tutorial for 2/3 of the audience because they will feel that vital information is missing. I guess what I'm saying is, the best tutorials cater to all types, not just your own style or attitude toward building.

Also, the value is in the details. The title "Leather Covered Interiors" is pretty self-explanatory, so it's a given that there will be leather cut to a certain shape and size that is used to cover the objects and will somehow be secured to them so they stay covered. The valuable tidbits lie in the details of selecting the material, cutting them to shape, applying them in a manner so that they conform properly and keep the surfaces from becoming too thick and out of scale, etc. I guess the point I'm trying to make is: the tutorial should keep its readers from having to suffer from too much trial and error. Folks will read the tutorial because it's teaching them something the tutor has already learned, and saving them some trouble. Anyone could take it upon himself to do their own legwork and buy up stuff just to try it and fail repeatedly until they stumble upon the right way to do it. Nobody needs a tutorial for that. If the tutor expects his students to pay those dues, he shouldn't bother with the tutorial in the first place.

One last thing: For those who say the leather grain is out of scale, that may be true with most leathers, but if the tutorial is well written and informative, some appropriate leather or other materials can be substituted in the leather's place to replicate sheepskin seat covers, possibly tweed, or those rough woven seat covers you'd find at Auto Zone like my dad had in his old truck, etc...

Personally, I enjoy a well-written tutorial, even on a subject I feel I've got a pretty good grasp on, because you never know when you'll learn something useful. I hope the ruckus associated with the original leather covered interior tutorial doesn't discourage others from posting tutorials on useful things they've learned, and I hope I too can contribute one day with something unique and useful.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Eric Stone

[Harry P.]

I don't know how detailed Dave plans to get, so we'll wait and see what he has in store for us.

But IMO, a "tutorial" should be 100% self-explanatory, with no assumption that the readers necessarily already have any knowledge of the subject matter. Sure, some people will already know how to do "step 1," for instance, but a good tutorial takes you through the process step by step, starting at the beginning, and covers each step in detail. A tutorial has to be "idiot proof," so to speak (no offense intended guys, but you know what I mean)... it has to explain everything. An effective tutorial should assume that the reader has no experience with the process or techniques you're "tutoring."

[crazyjim]

Scale leather upholstery tutorial - bring it on!! I'm ready to learn. Pack plenty of details in there Dave. Looking forward to seeing it and trying it out.

[Chas SCR]

I found some good leather and its real thin. If you have a daughter or a wife that takes birth controal pills they now come in a nice leather style folder thing. You can use this also in the inside it is like a vynel leather look to it.

Stores to look for leather- Jo Ann's Faberic, Micheals, Dollar General, Salvation Army store.

[camaroman]

Dave, looking forward to the tutorial with pregnant anticipation!!!!

Be proud and loud!!

[Scale-Master]

You all just had to know I’d have to offer an opinion. Let me break this down and respond to Dave’s individual quotes so my viewpoints can be taken in clearly… Watch carefully, this is done without the use of any flames. (But sarcasm may be present…)

“Won't post anything tutorial on this for a while as I think it takes time for dust and feelings to settle.”

Not sure why any dust must settle to finish the tutorial that was offered. Heck I even pitched in to try to provide useable information on the subject while the dust was still thick in the air… I even answered questions posed on the subject that were directed at me.

“Complaints will be ignored like the last time - I DON'T ANSWER COMPLAINTS IT'S JUST PLASTIC AND A HOBBY.”

You say complaints will be ignored.

That is acceptable, but what about QUESTIONS?

I (and others) asked QUESTIONS not complaints.

Please do not try to rewrite the history of the event in an attempt to change the tone.

Will QUESTIONS continue to be ignored also as you chose to do when several QUESTIONS were asked of you to provide explain your claims?

And if it’s just plastic and a hobby I’m having a hard time understanding why it is so important for you to brag it about it so much. As I mentioned before, I am sure it is much more to you than what you are saying about it now. Just review your own previous posts!

“When I post a topic, it's not because I think I'm the best builder out there, or the best at any given discipline.

Lots of builders on this forum are just as good or better than me, it's just not everyone shares how to do it, especially for the new builders, and I enjoy sharing.”

I never intimated that you claimed to be the best builder, nor did I comment negatively on the quality of your workmanship.

I did however request that you answer questions that arose when you made other claims of your accomplishments that seem to be a case of gilding the lily or in some cases even more egregious and outrageous.

”Anyone who wants to do anything bad enough, will find what they need to do it, AND THEN I'LL SHOW YOU SOME WAYS TO ACCOMPLISH THAT.”

Yes, again, that is part of the frustrations expressed by many here, you opened your “tutorial” by saying you’d show us how to do something, and then failed to follow through.

Boasting and being proud are two different things. I for one am very proud of my accomplishments, but I don’t boast about them, certainly not in every post and absolutely not to the grand level that you often do. It is crass and obnoxious and it rubs many people who do not say anything the wrong way. It is your God given right to be rude and boastful, but it is also my God given right to dislike it and share my opinion too.

Oh yeah, I back up what I say (you know, answer questions, sometimes even comments for that matter) when asked to define or clarify my comments.

”I THINK BECAUSE WE ARE MEN, AND WERE MADE ARROGANT TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, AND THAT WE SHOULD DISPLAY AND ENJOY THAT MASCULINE CHARACTER TRAIGHT PROUDLY”

It is your right to voice your own opinion, but with a perspective like that, you should not be surprised when it polarizes people.

And just out of curiosity, is a traight like a taint? What is it? What is it close to? Any coincidence they sound so similar?

I still would like you to answer the questions I, (and some others), asked regarding the claims you put forth in the original Leather Covered Interior thread.

One would think a spiritual man as you would relish the chance to show the truth of the things he stated as facts.

Is deflection and refusal to answer the questions (not complaints as you are trying to claim they were) an ethical thing to do if the claims are true?

Rhetorical question. But the answer is:

No, it’s not even ethical if the claims were untrue.

So Dave, how about it? Please, why not answer the questions and put this all behind us?

Edited March 2, 2010 by Scale-Master

[pharr7226]

Thanks for comin back Dave. Alot of guys were interested in what you had to say, myself among them. Just go head an do your thing when ya feel like it, I'll be here, ready to see how an try my best to learn it! Thanks Bud!!!

What he said! I appreciate anyone who takes the time to post anything that is remotely helpful. Historically, you have contributed a great deal to this site to help your fellow modelers. You should be very proud of your stellar work. I wish that I had a fraction of your skills... I'm working on it, but not there yet. Keep posting Dave. I appreciate your skill and your contributions.

[E St. Kruiser50]

Thanks guys for all the feedback guys .

Been a model car builder now, this year, for 60 years.

All those years with different friends we were always cocky and full of fun, challanging our buddies to beat us - we'd laugh and tell each other we were the best.

It was fun, and their wasn't an ounce or meanness intended or taken, and everyone knew it, we were being guys and friends and teasing each other like guys do - WE WERE BUDDIES AND HAVING FUN.

IT'S STILL LIKE THAT TODAY WITH MY FRIENDS IN EUGENE .

We love to tease each other - TALK SMACK about who's the best and who's gonnna beat who - I LIKE TO TEASE HERE TOO, but I am proud and sometimes boastful of my accomplishments, and if you think that wrong, or I'm a jerk, WELL, I'M OK WITH BEING A JERK, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Way too many people in this world tryin' to make everybody into what thet think they should be, and not accepting people for who they are, and what they are, and how they do their life.

SEEMS TO BE WAY TOO MUCH ATTITUDE AND SERIOUSNESS ABOUT THESE TOYZZZ WE PLAY WITH.

COUPLE YOU GUYS NEED TO LIGHTEN UP AND ENJOY THE RIDE, LIFE'S TO SHORT - SEEMS LIKE MOST BUT A FEW HERE ALREADY GOT THAT FIGURED OUT .

ANYBODY HEARD ANY GOOD JOKES AS I'M DONE HERE .

I HOPE YOU GUYS ARE TOO 'CAUSE THIS HORSE IS OFFICIALLY DEAD .

TIME TO BUILD MORE TOYZZZZ

(PS) WHEN I DO THE LEATHER POSTS, I'LL MAKE SURE I PUT IN A FEW EJECTOR PIN MARKS IN THE LEATHER. )

THE TREEHUGGER

Edited March 2, 2010 by Treehugger Dave

[Karmodeler2]

if you think that wrong, or I'm a jerk, WELL, I'M OK WITH BEING A JERK, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Oh, I think you finally found something that most of us on this board agree with. We won't have to disagree at all.

[Corvette.Jeff]

I have to agree with something davezinn said, i do this purely for the enjoyment, i come home from my 7+ hour shift at work and work on my little cars, or the big one. It helps me unwind and relax. i am, however willing to learn new tricks, thats why i ask so many darn questions! my dad always told me something "if someone is willing to teach you something, go for it! you never know when the next chance will arrise"

Besides the fact that its just plastic, we all tend to forget something very important, its just the internet, relax

Bring on the pictures dave!

Jeff.

[Jordan White]

Multiple posters have suggested to you that toning your prized braggadocio might make the storm clouds that seem to follow you around blow over.

Reminds me of the Global Warming episode of South Park.

[jbwelda]

why the heck is this in the "on the workbench" category? it clearly has nothing to do with on the workbench. put it where it belongs: tips and tricks category. or, given the way its going, rants and raves category. or is it some point of honor to post it here?

this is exactly what moderators are for.

[Jeff Sauber]

why the heck is this in the "on the workbench" category? it clearly has nothing to do with on the workbench. put it where it belongs: tips and tricks category. or, given the way its going, rants and raves category. or is it some point of honor to post it here?

this is exactly what moderators are for.

I have to agree with this.

This is more of a "tips, tricks, and ideas subject rather than a personal "workbench project" thats underway.

Besides, I'm really not sure if this thread has any real intentions anyway. It seems more like just another "carrot dangling session" to me.

We all know what happened in the first dance, so why come back here in the same fashion with the same cocky attitude just a couple days later to spin up more useless jibber jabber?

This entire topic is a big *yawn*....Either shut the heck up and post the darn tutorial or go do something else, and quit the nonsense. This forum has had enough B.S. lately to last all the rest of the year......Put it up, or shut it up, but stop beating around the freakin bush already.

Edited March 2, 2010 by J. Sauber

[Scale-Master]

I may have a cold style of technical writing, but please don’t misinterpret my “just the facts†style as intentionally being mean or derisive, it is not my intent.

Now on with the show. (See, not sure I do “funny†as well…)

I find it ironic Dave that you expend as much effort as you do to try to ignore the simply worded questions about things you bragged so heartily about creating only a week ago.

Man, if I made all that stuff, I’d want legitimate credit for it.

You try to twist the issues of the legitimate question asking forum members into it sounding like they are taking the hobby that you have bragged about inventing or introducing so many things to, too seriously. Maybe it is that blind perspective to see only what you want to see and maybe want others to see that allows you to believe the claims you made to the point we have reached today?

You make it sound by default that there is some meanness directed at you. Not at all, just a call for you to answer questions raised by your claims. If it was a case of exaggeration and hyperbole getting out of control, own up to it, otherwise it comes off simply as dishonest braggadocio.

Is just asking that being mean? Is asking for the truth of what someone stated as fact mean or rude?

You could have more easily, and in less words, addressed those questions than try to use misdirecting responses (as if most people following this thread don’t know what transpired) and comments of how it is not a serious pastime for you. C’mon! You say there is too much attitude? I guess if anyone, you should know… Is that mean? You said you enjoyed boasting.

You tell us to lighten up when the heat is now too hot for you, not us. You lit the fuse when you brazenly boasted about your scratchbuilding accomplishments, and the chrome system you invented (complete with inventing the airbrush for it). But when we simply ask for an explanation we become the bad guys and are now playing too rough.

So now you tell us that you’re done here, the squirrel is officially dead. You can’t yell fire and not expect to be held accountable.

Really, the squirrel ain’t dead until the Treehugger sings, i.e. explains his claims of inventing these products and tools and shows us how to scratchbuild a part with mold lines & sink marks under a vacuum-metalized finish. Or owns up to the reality many of us suspect.

We’re not going anywhere Dave…

Please enlighten us. Why are you unwilling to answer these questions “teacher� Seems to me your method of teaching is more akin to preaching; without sustainable facts or stories that fully reconcile.

Are we to just trust you on blind faith that what you claim you did you actually did? Normally not an issue, unless one steps over a line with his claims.

I for one don’t buy it and as I mentioned before. I think you know you have been caught with your hand in the proverbial cookie jar and for whatever reason; it seems you’d rather cling to whatever it is you think you have with your colorful bragging instead of honestly answering a few over due and clearly asked questions.

Is that being mean? Was there a flame in there? I see more unanswered QUESTIONS than anything…

Consider it “dead†and go away if you choose to. Seems a bit cowardly, not what I would expect from someone as full of vigor as seemed just last week and the preceding months.

But it won’t resolve the issue, or answer the questions. Only you can do that. But we can keep on asking… And again, we’re not going anywhere…

[Fuel Coupe]

Dave

I'll put this real simple. Stop trying to explain yourself and get on with the tip. Either that or move on. Do A COMPLETE tech tip without all the slight of hand and "Pay your dues" or "do some leg work".

Come on man really? Pull your big boy pants up and lets go to work...

Get on with it...

Edited March 2, 2010 by TxRat