Jairus- How about that race plane CPB?

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Posted · Report post

So do some people in Chat. It's somewhat off-topic, but still has everything a gearhead loves; crazy horsepower, crazier speeds, wild paint jobs, and lots of innovation in aerodynamics. Declare a start date and I'm in. Anyone else want to join in?

44-73415_12_dt2.jpg

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Posted · Report post

i would love to join as well !!!!

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Posted · Report post

I'd be interested, too. Would pre-war "box stock" racing planes be eligible, or only modified war-birds?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I'd be interested, too. Would pre-war "box stock" racing planes be eligible, or only modified war-birds?

I don't speak for Jairus, but here's what he said in another thread:

"I have had this idea for YEARS... and that is a build off/contest for "racing warbirds". No jets! But, any prop driven aircraft from WW2 can be built into a racing plane with cut down canopy, graphics, contra-rotating propellers, etc.

I would pick 1/48th scale because of the wide range of available and affordable subject matter and then say that the sky is the limit regarding modifications.

Some day we here on the MCM forum should do that..."

So it sounds like the goal is to modify warbirds.

Edited by LDO

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Yup, that's the plan! Modified warbirds from WW2. Any warbird will work including Japanese, German, Italian, Russian or those who protected the British Isles.

(Hawker Sea Fury is used in Reno air races but the plane came out too late to actually fight in the war. Suppose we could make same allowances for that one. )

No bigger than a twin engine (Bf 110, Mosquito, P-38 for example) and no jets!

This would be a photo contest of course and we will do a voting thing in the end. Keep the deadline short like end of summer to keep our noses to the grind stone and only three photos will be submitted to the final voting thread. Photos should be examples showing both wheels up and wheels down. I suggest we all get some practice taking pictures outside!

Votes should be based on coolest paint and most modifications not to mention logical modifications.

No prizes yet... but maybe Gregg and I can come up with something. Sound good? :P

Edit: No guns, bombs or weapons can show! These are to be serious sports racers only. But if you want to go crazy with the graphics and do a NASCAR graphic look... go for it! :D

Edited by Jairus

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Posted (edited) · Report post

AWESOME! I'll start cutting today. It will be a new project, not something I already have in progress.

One guy in Chat was asking about using an F-82 Twin Mustang. First flew in May 1945 but did not enter service until after the war. Would that be allowed?

For those who may not be that into warbirds but like the idea:

Tamiya's F-51D (NOT P-51D) in the Korean War box art comes with uncuffed prop blades. Much smoother look. The prop blades are also separate pieces that get glued into the spinner. Makes it easy to do something like a natural metal/polished metal spinner and painted blades...or vice-versa.

TM61044.jpg

Special Hobby's F2G "Super Corsair" comes with a resin R-4360 radial engine, in case anyone wants to show off a power plant in their Corsair or Sea Fury. One box has decals for a real race plane, but that would be a box-stock buildup.

SH72166.jpg

Airfix's Seafire 46/47 is a contra-prop Griffon-powered bird. Big bumps to clear the valve covers on that monster engine plus a two-piece spinner with separate prop blades.

369611134.jpg

Looks great on the front of a P-51. Which reminds me; the Revell/Monogram P-51D is ideal for cutting up. It's inexpensive and panel lines will likely get filled in/sanded smooth. No need to cut up a Tamiya when all you need is the basic shape.

If anyone wants a 4360 for this contest, let me know. I'm not into displaying engines.

Edited by LDO

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Jairus- do you have any artwork of hot rod warbirds?

Also- do you want in-progress photos?

Edited by LDO

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Posted (edited) · Report post

ill take that motor lee :) and jairus can we do a year build with this one as well i need time to get the right plane plus i might do 3 a P38 a P51 and the DO335 mike showed us last night

Edited by moparfan426

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Posted · Report post

Mopar- PM your address and I'll send the engine. You gotta have it ready by Jairus's deadline!

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Sounds like fun. Let me ring up Smokey and see if he's still got that cold fusion conversion for the Rolls Royce Merlin. And I know that ol' Ralph has got some really slick "stock" sheetmetal for a Mustang layin' around somewhere. I may even be able to hit up ol' Junior for some sponsorship money with the Midnighht Moon deal. But hey, if all else fails, I'll just cheat up a Griffon and drop it in the ol' Spit. Tally Ho, Ya'll.

spitfire.jpg

Try this for some links to some pictures.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-&p=air%20racing%20planes&type=

Edited by LUKE'57

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Posted · Report post

First off I want to say that I do not yet have Gregg's blessing on this crazy build off. I will talk to him...

Second, I am very close to banning all twin engine aircraft so please don't push it. The twin Mustang was never a serious war machine in WW2 like the P-38 and since a racing sport plane needs to be maneuverable and quick. Anything big will have a serious disadvantage in cornering around pylons. The twin Mustang was also not widely produced until AFTER the war. None of the airframes saw action in WW2 according to all records so it is technically not a WW2 Warbird.

Talk me out of it if you want to try... but I initially want to say no.

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Posted · Report post

I'm going for a single. I'm somewhat familiar with what blasts around Reno; I have no intentions of cleaning up a B-29 or shoehorning a Griffon into a Fairey Swordfish.

I'm thinking of a flashy paint job for a lady pilot. Penelope Pyloncutter. :)

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Lee, I like it! It would be fun to keep this light hearted and have a feel of "Speed Racer" about it. Maybe create a short back story too...

I am thinking about a racer who discoverers a hidden Nazi bunker in the Black Forest containing a cache of 3 FW 190's. Maybe it was spotted by using google maps or some such and he takes a trip to see if the images noticed are really a grown over airstrip and bunker. Sort of like a Clive Cussler story via chapter 1 (my fav part).

FW190-vi.jpg

Hey, it could happen....

Edited by Jairus

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i am a big fan of Clive Cussler i have most of his books. would love to see your art work jairus on these planes

Edited by moparfan426

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Posted · Report post

Artwork? I thought we were building models. :D

I have never drawn or illustrated any sport planes. Did more than a few military illustrations of aircraft but this is new ground for me and a little exciting if truth be known.

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Well, I guess I'd be out if twin engines are banned. My only idea (and kit that would apply that I have) would be a Grumman XF5F of which there was only one prototype and it didn't see actual service. It would make a cool theoretic racer, though, even if only in comic book dreams! (NOT my model, BTW...a brilliantly scatchbuilt 1/32 version off the 'net.)

xf5f132fm_comp4-vi.jpg

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Jim, I don't want to ban twin engine racers. Heck... I don't even think I should be making any rules since I have not completed a model in two years. But it is simpler to pick a period (ww2 fighters) and build a racer based on the craft that came out of that period. Your Grumman XF5F was an interesting mid 30's design but was not anywhere close to being competitive. If you want twins I would choose the P-38 as there was NOTHING close to it's power and handling.

Best and fastest fighters by the end of the war were:

P-51D (Mustang)

P-47N

FW 190D

P-38 Lightning

F4U Corsair

F8F Bearcat

Supermarine spitfire

Hawker Sea Fury

To pick anything else would be purely an artistic enterprise.

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Posted · Report post

Well, I guess I'd be out if twin engines are banned. My only idea (and kit that would apply that I have) would be a Grumman XF5F of which there was only one prototype and it didn't see actual service. It would make a cool theoretic racer, though, even if only in comic book dreams! (NOT my model, BTW...a brilliantly scatchbuilt 1/32 version off the 'net.)

xf5f132fm_comp4-vi.jpg

Does anybody else think that plane looks like a pre-historic "Pod Racer" :lol:

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Posted · Report post

You have my okay for this.

If I get banned, so be it!

Can someone post a full list, with pictures, of planes that can be used?

Don't keep on quoting images if you are replying, maybe we can make one page just for this?

I am still playing with software such as WordPress, which may be a good place to practice for postings such as this.

I think it's cool

A great distraction.

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Posted · Report post

But daddy... that would be a LONG list! :lol:

I put up a logical list of the best planes at the end of the era. Google any one and you have tons of info. Revell and Monogram provide the cheapest kits with Hasagawa, Airfix, Italeri and Tamiya more expensive alternatives. If anyone wants to use something weird or esoteric more power to them as long as it flew and fought in the war from 1939 to 1945, driven by a piston engine/propeller.

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I hate to bring up the 'R' word, but were there rules governing the specs and construction of these types of planes, or was it pretty much unlimited? If that's a dumb question, forgive me since I'm not all that familiar with them. Would we be looking at a certain time period for these planes to have competed in (say, 1945-60 or so, when surplus planes were around and newer prop driven aerobatic planes hadn't arrived yet)..?

Am I thinking too much about this?? :lol:

The idea is intriguing... I have a terrible little 1/72 P-51 kit that came from a dollar store for $1 that has been hiding in the bottom of a plastic organizing cabinet for years. It might be good for this- something to chop up and throw some paint on just for kicks.

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Posted · Report post

I hate to bring up the 'R' word, but were there rules governing the specs and construction of these types of planes, or was it pretty much unlimited? If that's a dumb question, forgive me since I'm not all that familiar with them. Would we be looking at a certain time period for these planes to have competed in (say, 1945-60 or so, when surplus planes were around and newer prop driven aerobatic planes hadn't arrived yet)..?

Am I thinking too much about this?? :o

The idea is intriguing... I have a terrible little 1/72 P-51 kit that came from a dollar store for $1 that has been hiding in the bottom of a plastic organizing cabinet for years. It might be good for this- something to chop up and throw some paint on just for kicks.

The class these planes race in is commonly called "Unlimited Warbird". I don't know if that's an official name or not. They still race today. As far as modifications go, it really is pretty much unlimited. Tiny teardrop-shaped canopies, cockpits moved several feet aft, some have even eliminated radiators in the quest for better aerodynamics. The engine is still water cooled, but after the water leaves the engine, it just gets sprayed away. It does cut down on drag, but if you run out of water, you land NOW, Engine swaps are fine. There have been several P-51 Mustangs with Rolls-Royce Griffon engines. That one uses contra-rotating props to counteract the massive torque. (look up World Jet, Precious Metal, Red Baron RB-51, and Miss Ashley II.) Several Sea Furies and one Corsair have run with a 28cylinder R-4360 engine. (Look up Dreadnought Sea Fury, Furias Sea Fury, and All-Coast Super Corsair). There have even been a couple of wing swaps. Vendetta was a P-51 with Lear Jet flying surfaces. Many radial engine aircraft did not have a prop spinner in military service, but got one as a racer to clean up the aerodynamics. See Perestroika Yak, All-Coast Super Corsair, and Rare Bear F8F Bearcat.

One thing that Jairus has stressed and I agree with 100%, a racing plane should be built to win races. They fly around a closed course at low altitude and make high-g turns. A 4-engine bomber would not win a race. It's not a long-distance marathon, it's several laps at a furious pace. Some of these engines are so highly modified that they have a 1-hour Time Between Overhaul rating.

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Posted · Report post

Scale is not that huge a deal and 1/72 will photograph as well as a 1/48th provided you set it up and detail the model. This is a photo contest afterall based on how well the craft is finished and set up. As usual.... the red craft will most likely win!

Hmmmmmm a red FW 190, shades of the red baron. I love it! :o

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Posted · Report post

Sounds intriguing. I love warbirds. Upgrading to modern gear sounds like fun.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Long post.

Here is a sampling of the best choices of WW2 as requested by pappy Gregg.

First up is the Supermarine Spitfire. England updated this aircraft all during the war to keep up with Germany's FW-190. The Spit was actually based on a pre-war racing plane and makes perfect sense to convert one to racing trim as described by Lee in an earlier post using the Napier engine.

Monograms kit provides the builder with the option of retractable landing gear so this is a no brainer.

spitfire_mkIIa-vi.jpg

The P-51 Mustang is today the most popular choice for a racing plane. The later versions utilized a Rolls Royce engine so stay away from the Allison early version. This was one of the fastest Prop driven aircraft of WW2!

p51-vi.jpg

The P-38 lighting is remarkably maneuverable for it's weight and size. The twin Allison engines are turbo-supercharged and I can see this one with racing stripes for sure!

p38-vi.jpg

Germany's fastest and most agile fighter of WW2 was the FW-190. This is my choice by the way... later versions used a more powerful engine but the darned kits are soooo expensive that I will stay with the 14 cylinder BMW radial. :)

FW190A5-vi.jpg

The plane on top is a Japanese Mitsubishi Zero. The one on the bottom is a F8F Bearcat. Both are acceptable and make great racing aircraft. The Bearcat entered the war too late to see action in WW2. However it was used in Korea and holds the distinction for being one of the fastest piston driven propellor aircraft. It is also very popular as a subject in Reno Air races as displayed in the second pic so it is allowed.

BearcatAndZero-vi.jpg

F8FBearcat-vi.jpg

This is a F4U Corsair. It would look wicked as a racing plane with a cut down canopy and propeller spinner don't cha' think?

F4Ucorsair-vi.jpg

The P-38 Thunderbolt was the biggest and heaviest of all the single engined fighters. It used a huge engine to propel it and featured a fantastic turbo-supercharger system complete with inter-cooler. Thunderbolt drivers loved this aircraft!

republicp47thunderbolt-vi.jpg

p47turbosys3-vi.jpg

Okay, this is a sampling of the best of the best by wars end. Anything else such as a P-40 Warhawk, P-39 Aircobra, Bf 109, etc would be considered a less than ideal airframe but COULD be modified into a logical air racer if a better engine installed.

But then... this is not a real race, but instead just a vote of the people so make it pretty, cool and take great pics to win! :D

Edited by Jairus

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