What do you think is most important?

27 posts in this topic

Posted (edited) · Report post

Hey Gang,

Well, after another cup of coffee I had one more question. Do you think it is more important to make a model that is just perfect in every mechanical, etc. detail, or to just build what you feel it should be in your mind? Do not get me wrong, you should always make a car look right, but...I am not really much of a mechanic, so if I put something on a car that looks just sooooo cool, but would never, ever, ever be done in the 1:1 car world for a lot or reasons, is that right or wrong? Form or function? Perfection or art? This is a question that I have been wanting to ask since I joined the forum, and your opinions are very important to me, don't know if others wrestle with this consideration when they are building, but know down the road know I will, have the imagination, if the skills ever catch up.....wow :lol:

Thanks for any replies, man, I just love it here!!

Mike

Edited by bigmikevee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The nice thing about modelling is that you can do whatever you please. In real life much of the stuff might be too expensive, too impractical, or downright illegal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The nice thing about modelling is that you can do whatever you please. In real life much of the stuff might be too expensive, too impractical, or downright illegal.

I think Christian hit the nail right on the head! A few of the ideas I have for builds are really "off the wall" and might even make some wonder what type of good meds I'm taking! :lol: They would probably fit best in all three of the categories, but I've thought they're cool ideas and may even make you think "What if..?"!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Build what makes you happy. Period. I think most everyone does, and more power to them.

I would say the only people who are doing it wrong are the people who build to please contest judges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Mike,

Are not many 1:1 vehicles art? Many show cars, trucks and cycles are never intended for the street. And, let’s not forget the concept cars. Many of these may fall into your “sooooo cool†category.

The question I have to answer for myself is “what is the builder trying to portray?â€

So what if it’s not practical? Here’s a model of a show truck I stumbled across yesterday:

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=26829&hl=foose&st=0

Is this truck functional? NOT! Do I like it? YES! To me its way cool. Does it look right to me? Not when I think speed bumps. Yet. it could well be built in the 1:1 world as art. However, I don’t believe it would ever be become a 1:1 truck without modifying its form. And that would be wrong.

I think function limits form. The more functional a vehicle is the more it will need to be mechanically sound. It’s a balancing act.

I’ve done some customs and phantoms but I try to make them “feasibly functional†like street vehicles having curb clearance, mufflers and tire clearance in the wheel wells.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Generally speaking, I'm with the Keckster on this one.

A finely rendered, realistic replica IS art.

But I also enjoy a phantom or fantasy creation so long as it does not stretch credulity to the point that it becomes or appears to become nothing but a toy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

This topic could go intellectual on us! There is a difference between "Art" and "Craft". Often both things are present in a work. Sometimes it is only one or the other. Realism is a different topic entirely.

Some very abstract and wild models are very detailed and well crafted but are not realistic. They are an abstraction of a real car or an idea for a car. I believe that, in general, replica builders use more craft. The art may be in the details like paint detailing and visual tricks to make it appear more realistic. Builders who make up their own designs are using more art in coming up with an idea for what they want their model to look like. Some are more successful than others.

I completely appreciate both aspects of model building.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Both; there is art in real life and functionality. You can still find the beauty in a beater if you look hard enough. Now, I do tend to lean way more toward technical correctness (which is why I NEVER finish anything....I am too detail-critical) than 'art'. Maybe if I went the art route, I would finish one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

It's all good!

I laugh and laugh at my armor building buddies. I too build quite a bit of armor but some of these guys go to great lengths to replicate an intricate camo pattern. When I point out that the real deal was painted in the field by a p'd off private with a spray gun and probably didn't look so perfect, they all groan and make excuses. It doesn't detract from their creation, it's just another way of looking at it. They, and I, strive for "realism" in the way we build a tank. There is an "art" in creating that realism though! :(

The "art" is how to replicate what is, was, or shall be, at any particular moment in time.

Autos are unique in their own way. I love all types of builds, stock, custom, wild, mild and all in between.

G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The creativity is the main reason I build cars. Except for modeling an actual existing auto, no one can tell you that you did it wrong...

Personally, I build to suit the idea in my head for the build I am creating. On my bench are several projects and each is it's own. I'm working on an Accurate Miniatures Grand Sport that I have done so many modifications to and have yet to put paint on anything or even glue the engine halves together... But then again, I have a '65 Vette that is basically a box stock with a few wires thrown in. I build to suit the vision I have for the kit in my head. If it is just a look I'm going for, like the '65, I won't worry so much about all the goofy details but will do things like add wires, lines and carve out the door handles. My vision for the Grand Sport is I want it to look like someone took a shrink ray and hit the real car with it... I want every detail in place on top as well as on the bottom. I want it to look like you can start it up, put it in gear and let it run...

Another thing. I don't like to use a whole lot of turned aluminum parts. To me they look too unreal. I don't know what it is but they just don't have the right scale feel to them. Yea, they look cool and add a lot of detail but in my opinion, anyway, they just don't have a scale look. Maybe it's a finish thing. A turned part looks like a turned part no matter what size it is. Ah well, just my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I've been wanting to do a 427 Cobra with a 6-71 blown 427 SOHC motor in it for a while. In real life this car would be nearly undrivable besides idling around a parking lot but it would be cool. So I say build what you like and if it's too far from the mainstream simply enjoy it on your own.

Some times you just have to let the voices in your head be your guide...

IMG_0049-vi.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The creativity is the main reason I build cars. Except for modeling an actual existing auto, no one can tell you that you did it wrong...

Another thing. I don't like to use a whole lot of turned aluminum parts. To me they look too unreal. I don't know what it is but they just don't have the right scale feel to them. Yea, they look cool and add a lot of detail but in my opinion, anyway, they just don't have a scale look. Maybe it's a finish thing. A turned part looks like a turned part no matter what size it is. Ah well, just my opinion.

I agree to much of what you wrote and the spirit it was offered, but if you build something that would not work mechanically in the real world, it could be viewed by some as “wrong†if it is intended as a feasible drivable vehicle. That’s not to say you should not build what you want to.

Build for yourself, absolutely, and if you don't like the look of aluminum parts, you can skip them. But in your opinion you state "Maybe it's a finish thing. A turned part looks like a turned part no matter what size it is."

Much of what I replicate in scale are machined aluminum scaled down versions of machined (often aluminum) real parts. To me they look fine. But not everything is left raw metal either. There are a variety of finishing techniques to take a raw machined piece to a finished replica part. I use everything from abrasives to paints, even acids.

You wouldn't use an unfinished resin or plastic part very often on a model, the same holds true for many turned/machined aluminum parts. An unfinished part will look out of place no matter its composition.

Some in progress shots of an old build made with a lot of aluminum:

DSC00003C.jpg

DSC09988C.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Hey Gang,

Well, after another cup of coffee I had one more question. Do you think it is more important to make a model that is just perfect in every mechanical, etc. detail, or to just build what you feel it should be in your mind? Do not get me wrong, you should always make a car look right, but...I am not really much of a mechanic, so if I put something on a car that looks just sooooo cool, but would never, ever, ever be done in the 1:1 car world for a lot or reasons, is that right or wrong? Form or function? Perfection or art? This is a question that I have been wanting to ask since I joined the forum, and your opinions are very important to me, don't know if others wrestle with this consideration when they are building, but know down the road know I will, have the imagination, if the skills ever catch up.....wow cool.gif

Thanks for any replies, man, I just love it here!!

Mike

Great question and comments smile.gif .

Build what ya love - I always have.

The biggest mistake I've seen people make in this hobby, and in life in general, is to worry about what others think or say about them, or what they do. All that worry has a controlling power over our creativity, and limits our ability to be a free-thinker. You never really get to know what ya love or what your talents are, when your trying to please everyone - can't think oustde the box, or be happy with yourself.

I do what my "Artsy" passions inspire me to do. I get criticized and beat-up once in a while for my creations, or even my life style, but hey, I like 'um wink.gif .

For me it's always artist first when I open the box cool.gif . Yeah, I can do the mechanical stuff OK, but there's nothin' like free-form "Artsy" art deco flowing designs to really "Spin my bottle" laugh.gif .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

DSC00003C.jpg

Mark,

this is a MODEL forum. Quit posting your WIP on 1:1 builds or you are going to get banned!!!

And, according to him, if a turned part looks like a turned part, no matter what scale: wouldn't that be the object of modeling? To have a small part look exactly like a full scale one?

Man, does this ever give me a headache!!

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Some times you just have to let the voices in your head be your guide...

It always seems those voices in my head say "DO NOT BUILD BOX STOCK!", maybe that explains some of my wild ideas! B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Short answer: "No."

Long answer: "No, it's not important because to me building model cars should be purely diversionary fun, not anything serious enough to even use 'important' as a descriptor. Everyone should build however they want and not be too concerned about it as long as they're having fun."

Its just that simple!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The craft and execution is as important as the expression.

In high school, my drafting teacher had a wonderful sign, "Ideas are born in the mind of man, and brought into being by the point of a pencil."

So it also is with styrene, aluminum and the other sundry materials we call a model.

The idea is very important- that's the art form. The concept, and to a great extent, the execution and building.

The craftsmanship and challenges in building and how well you deal with them is what determines the success.

So it is with designing and producing a product. So it is with this hobby of ours.

Charlie Larkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I guess I'm sort of creative, but alot of my finished stuff doesn't look all that great. So what's most important to me, is that I try and continue to get better a little at a time.

At 40 years old, I'm still fairly young, so I hope to still have some time left to try and improve on things.. :):unsure::unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

It is a hobby, I build to relive stress.

Wow! I would not want to relive stress! You must be a glutton for punishment! I much prefer relieving stress! :lol::lol::P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

but alot of my finished stuff doesn't look all that great.

I wasn't going to say anything but since you brought it up.......

:lol::lol::P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I wasn't going to say anything but since you brought it up.......

:lol::lol::P

LOL..Yeppers, I'm finding out that a ball peen hammer works great on fixing multiple imperfections at once!!

A few whacks here and there and things really improve quickly.... :P:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Most important? I build as a hobby, for me first. I try to learn something with each build as a personal development exercise for me. I try to do something that will stretch my abilities. Sometimes, it might be something quick and easy to get something finished and on my shelf. I also try not to take myself too seriously, or the hobby. I am also trying not to start more projects before clearing up some of the backlog on the workbench-which I personally find difficult due to the ideas that come into my head, or the inspiration that drives me to start another project.

So, in conclusion, for me, the most important thing is keeping it all about me! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I guess I'm sort of creative, but alot of my finished stuff doesn't look all that great. So what's most important to me, is that I try and continue to get better a little at a time.

At 40 years old, I'm still fairly young, so I hope to still have some time left to try and improve on things.. unsure.gifunsure.gifunsure.gif

You should be a pretty fair model builder say by the time you reach 80 or 85 then J.!laugh.gif

One can only imagine what your work will hve accelled to by then! You seem to be your biggest critic and that is a good thing in an artist!cool.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I agree to much of what you wrote and the spirit it was offered, but if you build something that would not work mechanically in the real world, it could be viewed by some as “wrong†if it is intended as a feasible drivable vehicle. That’s not to say you should not build what you want to.

Build for yourself, absolutely, and if you don't like the look of aluminum parts, you can skip them. But in your opinion you state "Maybe it's a finish thing. A turned part looks like a turned part no matter what size it is."

Much of what I replicate in scale are machined aluminum scaled down versions of machined (often aluminum) real parts. To me they look fine. But not everything is left raw metal either. There are a variety of finishing techniques to take a raw machined piece to a finished replica part. I use everything from abrasives to paints, even acids.

You wouldn't use an unfinished resin or plastic part very often on a model, the same holds true for many turned/machined aluminum parts. An unfinished part will look out of place no matter its composition.

Some in progress shots of an old build made with a lot of aluminum:

DSC00003C.jpg

DSC09988C.jpg

Sorry for reposting the pics but it saves you from having to go back a page to see em...

Now THIS is the exception. Most people don't address their aluminum, or any metal, parts in the finish dept and that is what I was getting at. These look realistic and don't have that "out of scale" finish I was referring to. Awesome work and use of finishing methods on ALL of the parts of your build. So, I will correct my statement and say "unfinished" parts don't add to the scale look of a model but make it look sort of toy-ish or out of scale.

No offence intended to all our aftermarket companies turning out (turning, get it) high quality parts. I have a box full myself and try to put approriate finishes on them when I use them. Your pics are definetly an inspiration!

And I do agree about building for yourself. I love to challenge myself at times and at others, get fed up with never finishing anything and go for a simple build.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I think Dennis Doty had it completely right when he wrote this in MCJ decades ago:

[...] recognizes that building and collecting model cars is motivated by the same appreciation of form and function as collecting art or artifacts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now