Terror Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 If its going be listed as such then it should have a name attached to the build.Not many people buy paitings without a signature.Which leads me to this question. Does anybody sign their models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 If someone calls themselves a "Master Modeller", they are probably not!!!! It's not like we have a formal ranking system like they have in chess. Then you have the amateur/professional question which has little to do with skill and results. Wingrove was quite good but there were better, although not too many. Tom Kirn who won GSL with his Deusenberg Murphy coupe was better but he only built a few models for himself. Wingrove built 5-10 models a year depending on complexity. The late Manuel Olive Sans from Spain was one of the absolute best. His 1/10 scale Maserati Birdcage was so incredible that one car collecter who saw it stated that collecting Sans models was better than collecting the real cars. His models could run up to $50,000. each. Then there is the lunatic from France who built the 312 PB which was actually a small car rather than a large model! Jim Drew and Randy Derr are also amongst the most awesome builders out there. Some of their models have a basis in a plastic kit. The results are at odds with the humble origins but compare favorably to the best in the world. Making masters for resin casting is no big deal. Lots of people do that. To scratchbuild one is a step in the right direction but would anyone call Tom Mills of TKM a "master Modeller"?? He is more like a Folk Artist. The results do not display very good craftsmanship but have a charm and artistry that can be appreciated in a certain way. It is an amusing question but there is no answer to it. I think most of the people mentioned above would be happy to be called simply a "model builder". Andy said it best of all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Joseph Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I'm kind of surprised no one brought this up, but "master modeler" is/was a level of achievement within IPMS/USA. Basically if you won some awards at shows, participated in some activities, and showed up for meetings you got a certificate stating you were a "Master Modeler." Didn't mean a whole lot then and still doesn't. Just like anybody who self-publishes an ebook is now a "writer," anyone who completes a model can call themselves a "master modeler." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalenut Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I believe you have to be a Master Modeler in order to sell "pro built" on ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunkPile Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I'm not too good, but I sure am slow! Master-Schmaster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwit Pushin Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Like many here, I'm not sure what criteria should serve as the basis for designating someone a 'master' modeler. I've seen models that were loaded with one engineering feat after another, many operable features, but should one have to be a mechanical engineer to be considered? What if someone is capable of building an out-of-the-box kit so that the finished product looks like the 1:1 subject? Especially if the kit they started with isn't exactly 'state-of-the-art'. (Think Chrysler Turbine Car, or Orange Crate kits). In my mind they've accomplished something special. Fortunately, (or not), I'll never have to worry about this. I think when your focus is turned to 'standing' within the modeling community, you've missed the whole point of this great hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Obviously, there's no official ranking system with members who have a secret handshake, though maybe someone could start a contest category. Sort of like becoming an Iron Chef. Regardless, you'll know one when you see one. Edited April 17, 2012 by sjordan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramfins59 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Let me start this by saying: "I'm just joking when I say this guys..." Just so no one takes it the wrong way, or starts a fight here...... But, aren't we ALL Master Modelers in OUR OWN minds... LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rel14 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I think its a word they use to drive the price up, Cause if joe blow builds it,,its nothing,, But if a Master Modeler builds it,,then it has to be special.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I think you just wrote my new signature line! Still waiting... Very few people have ever nor ever will master the art of model building, and those who truly have would be too humble to boast about it or accept praise from others who tell them they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I believe you have to be a Master Modeler in order to sell "pro built" on ebay Judging by some of the "pro-built" work I have seen there they must not have a good criteria for that honor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Harry, was he a master debater or a cunning linguist? It depended on whether or not his girlfriend was around.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Kron Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) A true Master of the Car Modeling arts, to my way of thinking, would have to be able to build an exceptional model entirely from scratch exhibiting all the techniques and abilities required at a level unsurpassed by any of his peers. As a result, the only way to determine a Master is if the master produces a Masterpiece, a model which provides incontrovertible evidence of the Master's unrivaled skills. I agree with Andy that Manuel Olive Sans ( see http://www.olivesans.com/ ) was such a Master, capable of truly transcendent creations. His contemporary, Michele Conti (see http://www.conticoll...om/testpage.htm for some examples) also comes to mind. I can't see why Gerald Wingrove shouldn't qualify. It gets more complicated once we step away from replica modeling and into the world of plastic modeling and kit modifying. Juha Airto certainly bridges the gap and, to my way of thinking, would qualify as a Master. But, as great and inspiring as many of my heroes in the world of plastic modeling may be, I feel I would have to reserve the term Master for an exceptional few. The term Master Modeler as it is used to hawk wares on e-Bay is an absurdity, right alongside that other hoary commonplace found there, "Pro Built". Edited April 17, 2012 by Bernard Kron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shucky Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I agree with much of what is being said here. I too found it ridiculous to see the phrases "master modeler" and "pro built" on ebay. Lacquer paint and flocking is generally not what I think of when I hear those terms being used. I'll second the comments above with saying coining yourself as a master modeler is usually to boost your own ego and nothing more. And normally, yes ... that person is most certainly NOT a "master" of anything. But there's always a "sucker" who overpays for that stuff on ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romell R Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) One becomes a master with time .... its said it take 20 years to master any given skill or ability. Your not a master if you can work resin or if you know how to scratch build a holley carb from soda bottle tops. A master is anyone who has worked there craft for 20 years. Constantly perfecting the things he has learned over time . The one characteristic prominent in most masters is improving on learned skills . Edited January 4, 2017 by Romell R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Ambrose Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 One becomes a master with time .... its said it take 20 years to master any given skill or ability. Your not a master if you can work resin or if you know how to scratch build a holley carb from soda bottle tops. A master is anyone who has worked there craft for 20 years. Constantly perfecting the things he has learned over time . The one characteristic prominent in most masters is improving on learned skills . The figure I've heard is 10,000 hours. That probably varies with the field of expertise, but it seems right for anything of moderate complexity. That's 5 years of working full time. That's a lot of modeling time. I know I don't have that much into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyser Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 One becomes a master with time .... its said it take 20 years to master any given skill or ability. You're not a master if you can work resin or if you know how to scratch build a holley carb from soda bottle tops. Upside? Thread's 5 years dead, so I'm that much closer. Downside, Time is irrelevant. There are people here that have modeled far less than 20 years, and can handily be called MM. Skills. If someone can scratch a Holley (preferably a sand-cast Weber by my preference), they're close enough. Lots of us work resin, but some do it better. Mastering is "Applied Skills". I know guys that have modeled 40+ years that have improved from lousy to slightly less lousy. Friend that lurks here builds watches from scratch, models that are truly another level, and is an engineer. He's 30. Modeled for 10yr or so, and far far less than 5000hr. rarely shows or sells anything. If he's not a master, nobody is. Stupid concept. But Sweet!! I'm 5 years closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteski Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Does earning the TamiyaCon Master Modeler title count? While the title was a very nice and unexpected surprise, the trip to Japan was awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disabled modeler Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I have been at it for over 40 years now and will never be a master at it. There is always room for improvement or learning to do better with them. I have learned new skills from people in their 80s and ones in their teens yet...everyone has something to contribute we can learn from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete J. Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 If you do a little research in the history department you may find a bit more comprehensive definition of "Master" or "Master craftsman". It is interesting and has some application to today. For thousands of years there have been guild systems that were used to train and "certify" people in the trades or crafts. Simply put, a young person or apprentice was selected to join the guild an study under a master. This was not a slave or an indentured servant, but someone dedicated to learning a craft. America was founded on such a system and many of our trades grew out of this relationship. In years gone by after the apprentice was deemed worthy by the master, he could submit a work to the guild along with an approval letter from the master. This piece was his best work in the the craft he had chosen. This is the origin of the the word "Masterpiece". If approved by the guild, he could then hold himself out as a master. If you want to see what type of work a masterpiece is I can think of nothing more appropriate that the work early carpenters submitted. These were often their daily tool boxes. If you are interested google "early masterpiece woodworkers tool boxes". After you pick your jaw up off the floor, you will have an appreciation for what a master craftsman was. Within the modeling community we have the rudiments that could easily be adopted to that system. We have clubs and organizations that gather for the purpose of pleasure for sure, but also to improve the skill of the members. These clubs hold reviews of work aka contests which people submit their best work for evaluation. They give out awards that could be labeled as skill awards. Every club also has a few members recognize for their skills and ability to pass on skills to others aka master/apprentice. What we lack is a standardized recognition system. We do have large national and international contest that could be construed as master competitions. Some of those competitions might be GSL, IPMS nationals, Tamiya/Con(while it was running) AMPS nationals and the Telford show in the UK. I am sure there are others that you can name as well. I would be strongly tempted to label someone who had won those shows, or even won them multiple times or in multiple contests, as "Masters". Perhaps there needs to be a organization recognized as the Modelers Guild. IPMS tries to fill that roll, but there is much resistance to that in our automotive building community. Now I am not saying that there are not masters out there who have not competed and deserve that designation, such as Randy and Tim, but if we are to have some standard to measure the "Master Modeler " against, this would be a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLMFAA1 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I have my certificate from Revell from 1961 . Does this count? greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Can-Con Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Me? ,, I'm just a mildly talented novice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgabreu Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I've always found it odd that the term "master" anything is used when there is no qualifying standard. I believe some trades (maybe plumbing and carpentry?) have levels of competency that starts at apprentice, and works toward being a master. I'm a fabricator. I've heard others refer to me as a "Master Fabricator", which I found odd, since there's no standard of competency to rate fabricators. Time, itself, is not a good gauge. I know fabricators with well over 20 years experience that just aren't that good. Likewise, I've been building models for more than 50 years, and am not at the level of the guys you all have mentioned above. It would be interesting to have, maybe, an annual event to qualify model builders as "Master Modelers". I would think there would be a set of standards, and one would have to meet those standards for, maybe, 5 years running (to prove consistency) to be awarded the title. This would not be a contest- there could be any number of titles given to anyone who qualified. Just a thought.Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Smith Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I have my certificate from Revell from 1961 . Does this count? greg It's signed, so, yeah, counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk11 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Master for an exceptional few. The term Master Modeler as it is used to hawk wares on e-Bay is an absurdity, right alongside that other hoary commonplace found there, "Pro Built".Exactly.http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1967-Dodge-Coronet-R-T-MODEL-KIT-PRO-BUILT-MODEL-KIT-/232184008748?hash=item360f3ed02c:g:O~4AAOSwCGVX3frA mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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