How shiny should shiny be?

[edward smith]

I have been admiring some of the paintjobs done in some of the models here and other forums and I think I have come down to one conclusion or better yet, question. How shiny should shiny be? I ask this because I have seen some cars that are just way too shiny to the point where they look like diecast or others in which the paint has been dumped on so heavily that even the panel lines have dissapeared.

I have also seen that the ones with the most shine are the ones with Urethane finishes, to me I think those are the ones that look the shiniest but also the most toyish. What do you guys think?

[Mike Kucaba]

I have been admiring some of the paintjobs done in some of the models here and other forums and I think I have come down to one conclusion or better yet, question. How shiny should shiny be? I ask this because I have seen some cars that are just way too shiny to the point where they look like diecast or others in which the paint has been dumped on so heavily that even the panel lines have dissapeared.

I have also seen that the ones with the most shine are the ones with Urethane finishes, to me I think those are the ones that look the shiniest but also the most toyish. What do you guys think?

That is true,but some of the fault lays with the 1:1 restorations and judging criteria at shows.I think the model paints are better too these days. I would rather see an over-the top gloss however,rather than a build where it appears there was no attempt to clear coat or polish out.

[2002p51]

It really depends on the subject. A full on show car should be very glossy.

A factory stock replica, not so much. Race cars too, most race car modelers go over the top with multiple clear coats and polishing.

[Harry P.]

The obvious answer: Look at the real thing and try to dupicate it.

That "dipped in clear" 35 mile-deep clearcoat look is very toylike, even the shiniest showcars don't look that way.

[plasticfrog]

I agree alot on the toyish part cuz I just went to a model show in STL. I have been going there sence 1993 and just say two guys put in 4 models that where painted with the Urethane finishes and they took best show and paint and first in hot rod class and where biult stock with 20s on them.Im not knocking them down but they wear great builds but to me they looked toyish.Alot people was asking them and me what did they use to get so SHINEY....Urethane clear they said

[DRG]

I'm asking myself the same question when I look at the frame of the 62 Chevy I'm building.

Naturally I painted it black but I would almost kill to get a finish like this on a body.

[Roadkill2525]

I feel this is about as shiny as I want to go, nothing soaked in clear.

[ian ashton]

I mainly build factory stock cars, and as such I try to keep the paint on track with what the real cars aee like. That being said, I'm probably over-doing it, as the old lacquer paint from the late '60s and early 70's was never even close to as nice as what we have now, especially on the fully restored cars. But it does look much nicer.

[Jason Vandergriff]

depending on the project Ill use urethane clear or duplicolor clear. My avatar was done in urethane with no polishing. My most recent completeion was a 41 chevy done with duplicolor and polished. I prefer spraying urethane out of my gravity feed though.

[dencon]

Why can't builders just build models the way they want to without criticism from others. It is funny the double standards that have come about in the hobby over thesepast few "Internet" years. You see so many models that are sloppy and put together very badly, and there will be nothing but post on what a great job they did and no one ever points out the obvious. But when a builder does a beautiful, clean model with a flawless paint job. They get bagged on publicly. I have a very good friend that builds these kind of models and he has gotten to the point that he does not even get on any of the boards because of how everyone would bag him and tell him that his model is "Too Shinny" and get talked bad about. when in fact. Not only is this guy just about one of the friendliest people you will ever meet. He use to take the time on the message board to give some great How Toos on how to paint. Only because he wanted to do something for "The Betterment of the Hobby". Only then just get more hate mail sent to his inbox. It was amazing, until he finally not only removed himself from all of the boards, he also removed all of his helpful paint tips and how toos.

I bet if guys like him or say Clay Kemp were to get on the boards and start bashing on all of the builders that build models with orange peel paint jobs, glue marks and the model is loaded with injection pin marks and parting lines. The way these builders get bashed for their "Works of Art". I bet they would be ostracized from the hobby's community.

There are only two rules in this hobby.

1) Enjoy yourself

2) Be cool to others

I never read anything that there is a rule for building a model "TOO PERFECT or TOO SHINY.

This has got to stop.

Instead of bashing these guys. Why not ask them how they did that if you want to build like that. Or if you do not want to build like that, as I do. Just enjoy their work and stop complaining about it. In the long run you only look jealous when you complain about them and their models.

[edward smith]

Why can't builders just build models the way they want to without criticism from others. It is funny the double standards that have come about in the hobby over thesepast few "Internet" years. You see so many models that are sloppy and put together very badly, and there will be nothing but post on what a great job they did and no one ever points out the obvious. But when a builder does a beautiful, clean model with a flawless paint job. They get bagged on publicly. I have a very good friend that builds these kind of models and he has gotten to the point that he does not even get on any of the boards because of how everyone would bag him and tell him that his model is "Too Shinny" and get talked bad about. when in fact. Not only is this guy just about one of the friendliest people you will ever meet. He use to take the time on the message board to give some great How Toos on how to paint. Only because he wanted to do something for "The Betterment of the Hobby". Only then just get more hate mail sent to his inbox. It was amazing, until he finally not only removed himself from all of the boards, he also removed all of his helpful paint tips and how toos.

I bet if guys like him or say Clay Kemp were to get on the boards and start bashing on all of the builders that build models with orange peel paint jobs, glue marks and the model is loaded with injection pin marks and parting lines. The way these builders get bashed for their "Works of Art". I bet they would be ostracized from the hobby's community.

There are only two rules in this hobby.

1) Enjoy yourself

2) Be cool to others

I never read anything that there is a rule for building a model "TOO PERFECT or TOO SHINY.

This has got to stop.

Instead of bashing these guys. Why not ask them how they did that if you want to build like that. Or if you do not want to build like that, as I do. Just enjoy their work and stop complaining about it. In the long run you only look jealous when you complain about them and their models.

Relax and chill man, no one is bashing anyone here, this is merely an observation on my part. I am a collector and the reason I am saying this is simple, I collect diecast models and I also buy built models from a member here whose paintjobs are way better than the diecast models I have purchased over the years. I have come to this conclusion after admiring his work and comparing it to my diecast collection. I have also studied the various different methods that guys use to paint their models and I have have learned to appreciate how real a model can and should look when you go above the details.

I have seen beautiful paintjobs throughout the forum but I believe I have a very keen eye when it comes to building a model to look like the real thing. It doesn't have absolutely anything to do with bashing, it has everything to do with striving to get better at modeling. I personally don't consider myself to be a great or even a good modeler by any stretch of the imagination, nor am I here to bash anyone, God knows that 90% of the people here will build a better model than me anytime. Like I said, I have a very good eye for realism when it comes to a model and it's just something I wanted to point out.

Edited December 8, 2010 by edward smith

[TheCat]

In my humble opinion... I agree with some of the guys here, in some points.

I agree with Drew when he said "It really depends on the subject" and what my friend Harry said is correct, "Look at the real thing and try to duplicate it."

And I agree with Matt's simple two rules: "Enjoy yourself" Don't forget, this is a hobby and it should be fun not work, and "Be cool to others". I agree with that. Not everyone has the same skills as others. Some builders could build amazing works of arts and others may have to work really hard at their builds. Me personally, I don't mind a bit of helpful criticism. But I'm not a Master Builder. Like a very good friend of mine that did AWESOME Paint jobs on his models told me, keep it fun.

I consider myself a Moderate builder. Not an expert... yet. But I have lots more to learn. That's what I find really enjoyable and fun about this hobby. I've learned so much from my fellow builders and try to apply what they showed me to my builds. Every build I create is a little better then the last. In truth, we all learn from one another but find different ways to apply the skill.

Me, I try to build my models as accurate (as the model kit allows) and as detailed to the real thing as possible. I do allot of research on the subject to apply to my models. Even with that, sometimes I can't help myself to do some custom details to them. Again, it's all for the fun of the hobby. I made one promise to myself: Once the hobby is no longer fun, that's the day I will stop building.

So to answer your question of Shiny or too Shiny... I would have to go with my friend told me. Build it whatever way makes you happy... Super Shiny or Flat gloss.

Happy Modeling.

The Cat-Man =^.^=

[dencon]

I am sorry Ed. I really was not directing it to you. You just opened that "Can" and I went for it. But I will not recant what I said. Only because it is a fact that there is allot of bashing that goes on over these types of paint jobs on models to the point that there are many very good modelers that have left the forums over this. It is just that no one has said it publicly. So I did.

Here are a few of mine.

Rattle Can

Rattle Can

Rattle Can

Urethane Clear out of a gun

Urethane Clear out of a gun

Urethane Clear out of a gun

Urethane Clear out of a gun

As you can see, I do either, or. The 57 at the top is my latest model. All done with Testors and Tamaya paints and clears. I can get a very nice and shiny finish with a rattle can. All types from all model company paints to Auto Parts Store paints. The Bleu Willys is nail polish and rattle can Plasti-Koat Clear.

The last one (Blue 94 Trans Am Stock Eliminator) has been to many shows. Has never as so much even gotten even an honorable mention let alone placed. Do I care? Not at all. I just love entering my models at show and letting others see them. I do not feel that clearing with Urethane Clear out of a gun has ever given me any advantage at shows and this model proves it. It is subject matter and execution of ALL model building techniques that wins most of the time.

I do believe that the models with the Urethane Clear out of a gun on them, that have won at shows. Won not so much because of that, ONLY. It was apart of it. But because the over all model was outstanding from the others. I bet the model would had still won Best in it's class or Best of Show with a well done Tamaya paint job. It is the whole package that wins, Not Just Paint Jobs. Yes the paint will help out allot. But, isn't that what model car contests are? Competition? And in a Competition the competitors should want to do all that they can in their means and with in the rules, to win. And no one should down them for that or take their win away.

Again,Ed. This was not directed at you or to what you wrote at first. You just started the discussion. This is just my view point on this subject that is now all up for discussion.

[MikeMc]

All I build is customs....lots of flake, zing, and zowie!!!!

My paint better be a mile deep, yet still show all the details....Lacquer!!

"Stock" yet shiny......

DO WHAT YOU WANT!!!!!!

[Foxer]

I don't want to comment on this since what everyone says is true .. shine it up how YOU want it. I just thought I'd add a story that goes with this thread ...

When I was 16, in 1962, I built a custom '40 Ford sedan specifically for a contest at the LHS. It was a local show with maybe 200 entries. I had places 2nd in my first contest so I thought I'd try to do the best I could. It had similarities to Bill Cushenbery's El Matador with scooped rear fenders. It was chopped, channeled and sectioned until it stood a scale 48" high. I even used 13" wheels to lower it more. It was upholstered in green and white corduroy to look like tuck and roll. The doors were opened and hinged with working door handles and it was fully wired.. with thread. This WAS 1962. This my most extensive body work and it all came together looking good.

As it got near the wire for the show, I had barley time to paint. Now, paint has always been my enemy and still is. I user a Candy Green spray can and tried to do it all in one coat. Needless to sat, it looked really bad. There were dark gobs at the bottom edges from runs. There wasn't time to try again so it went into the contest like that. I cringed when I saw the nice paint jobs on other entries. Oh well, I figured I had no chance because of the paint.

The following week I was away and my Dad had to pick up my car at the hobby shop after the show. It won First place in the Custom class! I was shocked ... the owner said it was in contention for best in show but it was deemed unroadable. I never found what that meant but assume it meant it was TOO low .. if that is possible with a custom. Maybe it was the upholstered undercarriage.

The point of this is, despite the terrible paint job my car placed because of the extensive custom work and my typically anal attention to details. Was probably the last time ever a poorly painted car won a contest!

End of story.

[Lownslow]

i dont care how shiny it is its a improvement over my old paintjobs i was lucky to get a glossy paintjob every few cars.

[ra7c7er]

I agree alot on the toyish part cuz I just went to a model show in STL. I have been going there sence 1993 and just say two guys put in 4 models that where painted with the Urethane finishes and they took best show and paint and first in hot rod class and where biult stock with 20s on them.Im not knocking them down but they wear great builds but to me they looked toyish.Alot people was asking them and me what did they use to get so SHINEY....Urethane clear they said

I went to the same show and I saw a few questionable winners. Sometimes I think great paint jobs mask ok builds to non-professional judges. The cars did look nice though.

---

Someone already mentioned race cars but I always get a smile when I see a super glossy oval race car. I have been racing oval cars since I was 11 and I have never raced a car that was as glossy as many race models I see. Race cars look so shiny because of the way the camera picks up the glare of the sun not because they actually are that way. If you look at a race car, actual car not a car in a museum, they are fairly dull to at most mildly semi gloss.

I do agree that you should build what and how you like if you want your race car to have a super glossy paint job then do it but at the same time you can't get bent when someone says it's not very realistic. Because, well it's not. As for a "show car" I don't think their is such a thing as too glossy. I have gone to car shows where on sunny days you couldn't look directly at some cars.

Edited December 9, 2010 by ra7c7er

[2002p51]

.. shine it up how YOU want it.

I have never agreed with this philosophy on the hobby.

My goal with every model I build is to attempt to duplicate the look of a real car. Whether it be a replica of a race car that actually existed, or a fictional one, a factory stock, or even a street rod that exists only in my mind, the finish MUST match what the real car would've or should've had.

So no, I don't believe you should shine it up how you want it.

[MikeMc]

I have never agreed with this philosophy on the hobby.

My goal with every model I build is to attempt to duplicate the look of a real car. Whether it be a replica of a race car that actually existed, or a fictional one, a factory stock, or even a street rod that exists only in my mind, the finish MUST match what the real car would've or should've had.

So no, I don't believe you should shine it up how you want it.

Drew...you really gotta get out of the pits and go check out the show and shine.....people really do have mile deep black lacquer on customs

I'm not talking stock or racing,,,CUSTOM cars have bling....never seen a suede or dull AMBR winner

[cruz]

I think Edward brings a valid point, it's something I myself have noticed but definitely not anything to bash people about or to think that I am superior because of my painting method.

I am very picky when it comes to panel lines and hidden details under heavy coats of paint. I also think that sometimes certain models do look toyish with way too much paint or clear on them. I have been trying to learn to use urethane clears myself but one of the reasons I have been idle about it is the fact that most of my builds are Muscle cars and factory stock builds, not much shine you should put on those.

With that said, I enjoy wetsanding and rubbing out my finishes, I think it is the closest thing to simulating the paintjob on real cars. I have always believed in showing all the small details on my models and that's the main reason that I always try to put the least amount of paint on the bodies as possible. I have always said that the cars with excessive shine on them should certainly be modern custom show cars, you know, like a restored '41 Willys or Hot Rod, I have seen a lot of shine on those. Still, I would be picky about the panel lines and small details.

[slapshot]

I like my models shiny. Shinier the better. Every model that I build I build it the way I would build a 1:1 if I won the lottery. People have been trying to make cars shiny since day one. Go into any Wal-Mart, Petboys etc. & you will see a lot of space dedicated to products that claim to make your 1:1 ride shiny. Also shiny shows flaws more readily than semi or flat painted surfaces. So the quality of the paint job is subject to more visible scrutiny. I think all representations of ones work is subject to the builders choice & ability to control the outcome whether it be flat ,semi or gloss. To throw one modeler under the bus because his model is too shiny in your opinion & toy like hints to me that maybe you do not know (edit)

Edited December 10, 2010 by slapshot

[Harry P.]

I like my models shinny. Shinier the better. Every model that I build I build it the way I would build a 1:1 if I won the lottery. People have been trying to make cars shinny since day one. Go into any Wal-Mart, Petboys etc. & you will see a lot of space dedicated to products that claim to make your 1:1 ride shinny. Also shinny shows flaws more readily than semi or flat painted surfaces. So the quality of the paint job is subject to more visible scrutiny. I think all representations of ones work is subject to the builders choice & ability to control the outcome whether it be flat ,semi or gloss. To throw one modeler under the bus because his model is too shinny in your opinion & toy like hints to me that maybe you do not know

I assume you're aware of the no swearing rule? If you're not, you are now.

[2002p51]

Drew...you really gotta get out of the pits and go check out the show and shine.....people really do have mile deep black lacquer on customs

I'm not talking stock or racing,,,CUSTOM cars have bling....never seen a suede or dull AMBR winner

And that's exactly my point. If I was building an AMBR winner, (Highly unlikely BTW ) I'd load on the clear. If I was building a more practical, everyday street rod, not so much.

The point remains that the level of finish should be appropriate for the subject matter.

Oh, and seeing as how I have a '28 roadster, a '47 Mercury coupe, and now a '62 Falcon, I get to plenty of show and shines.

[Danno]

And that's exactly my point. If I was building an AMBR winner, (Highly unlikely BTW ) I'd load on the clear. If I was building a more practical, everyday street rod, not so much.

The point remains that the level of finish should be appropriate for the subject matter.

Oh, and seeing as how I have a '28 roadster, a '47 Mercury coupe, and now a '62 Falcon, I get to plenty of show and shines.

I agree. But it is "interesting" to see factory stock, street machine, commercial vehicle, and raceworn competition vehicle builds with show car finishes; just not very realistic.

Amazing how some builders will sweat every little detail in pursuit of realism, then so over-reach the finish in pursuit of judge-pleasing that their builds end up resembling acrylic-dipped tarantula paperweights. I just don't get it.

[Foxer]

I don't sweat the shine much on my 1:1 cars.