AMT/Johan question

[fanofratfink]

Hey everyone

I have a question that I think you guys can answer for me. While sorting out a model collection I picked up I noticed that AMT released the 68 Javelin kit # T-294 and Johan released the same kit of the Javelin. The parts are the same while the instructions are identical except for AMT and Johan putting thier name on it. They are both 3-1 style kis. Whats the story behind this? Maybe this is really common knowledge to most but I have never really messed with a lot of Johan kits although they put out some really cool stuff

Randy

Edited December 30, 2010 by fanofratfink

[Marc @ MPC Motorsports]

Hey everyone

I have a question that I think you guys can answer for me. While sorting out a model collection I picked up I noticed that AMT released the 68 Javelin kit # T-294 and Johan released the same kit of the Javelin. The parts are the same while the instructions are identical except for AMT and Johan putting thier name on it. They are both 3-1 style kis. Whats the story behind this? Maybe this is really common knowledge to most but I have never really messed with a lot of Johan kits although they put out some really cool stuff

Randy

Is that not the AMX instead of the Javelin? Regardless, there was some sharing between the two. AMT sold versions of the Johan 1968-70 plus 1974 AMX, Maverick, 1969-70 Cutlass 442 and I think the Olds Toronado. Same kits in AMT boxes.

[Eshaver]

I was told by a couple of hobby shop wholesalers that A M T always had the better distribution lines back in the day so to speak. Marc is correct in both the Javlin and the Toronado. A M T also distributed the origional 1928 Ford Model A tudor for M P C and a 1965 Dodge Coronet as well. Going back further , A M T also did all the distribution for rival S M P 1958-61 as well. Such kits included the Impala , the Elcamino and I think the Bonniville . Ed Shaver

[spkgibson]

Is that not the AMX instead of the Javelin? Regardless, there was some sharing between the two. AMT sold versions of the Johan 1968-70 plus 1974 AMX, Maverick, 1969-70 Cutlass 442 and I think the Olds Toronado. Same kits in AMT boxes.

I owned the Toronado and the javelins at one time, Same kits as the Johan kits, I think the 68 Toronado was a Jo-han boxed up in the AMT box also, The MPC version of that kit was alittle off on the rear bumper,They did some strange things back in the 60's and early 70's, Johan,Amt and Mpc were all made here in Michigan, Untill the Johan went down south after 2 different owners,I heard, Just a rumor,That most of the Johan molds were either sold for scrap,Or dumped in the detriot river, When ertl bought amt and mpc in the mid 80's they moved out to Iowa, But from 1982 untill 1983 Amt was owned by Lesney from england, Those Matchbox Kits from that era are rare and very desirable ,I own the 76 Nova,And the 69 Cougar. Back on topic at hand, I think AMT and Johan shared the molds of those kits mentioned, I would love to get my hands on the 70'S AMX kits .

[Greg Cullinan]

Pretty interesting.

[fanofratfink]

Very interesting answers guys. On the Maverick, I have a set of glass marked AMT Maverick and its roughly shaped the same but is bigger and doesn't fit my Johan Maverick or Comet bodies. I knew about some of the other swapping/aquiring of molds as Linberg now haveing the AMT 34 Ford P/U

[Art Anderson]

Ed Shaver is correct. Back in the day, AMT Corporation was the largest single model kit producer anywhere around, and as such, had the brand recognition to go along with it. So, Johan either sent the tooling over to Maple Road (which I doubt, given that Johan's tooling was made to fit their injection molding machines, which reportedly dated back to the very earliest types built during WW-II or shortly thereafter)

As for the '34 Ford pickup, that tool was sent out to AMT's Windsor Ontario toolmaker (one of a family of tool & die shops in Windsor, just across the Detroit River from Detroit) toward the end of Lesney AMT--and when Lesney filed for bankruptcy in March 1982, somehow that tool got missed in the inventory admitted to the Bankruptcy Court. It sat at the tool shop for the next 10-11 years, until someone from the newly reconstituted Lindberg (quite possibly George Toteff, who founded MPC, and at the outset of the 1990's, bought up Lindberg, started doing some new tooling, likely at the very same tool shop. Reportedly, the toolmakers considered that tooling to be abandoned, and sold it to Lindberg for the cost of the work, plus storage. Lindberg did have to pay for new PVC tire tooling, as that remained at AMT.

Art

[imatt88]

This is cool stuff. I never knew any of this. Too bad those molds got tossed.

No wonder those original Johan kits are so blasted expensive

[Mark]

Art Anderson:

Ed Shaver is correct. Back in the day, AMT Corporation was the largest single model kit producer anywhere around, and as such, had the brand recognition to go along with it. So, Johan either sent the tooling over to Maple Road (which I doubt, given that Johan's tooling was made to fit their injection molding machines, which reportedly dated back to the very earliest types built during WW-II or shortly thereafter)

The AMT-boxed Jo-Han kits were more than likely produced at Jo-Han's facilities. The styrene used is the same opaque, somewhat brittle stuff used in Jo-Han's kits, and the unplated parts in these kits were never bagged. AMT started bagging parts in their kits around 1969, while Jo-Han parts weren't bagged until the SeVille era.

If I remember right, the first Jo-Han kit sold in AMT packaging was the 1967 Toronado. Jo-Han kept it for themselves for '66. Others included more Toronados ('68 and '70), Olds 442 ('69 and '70), two-seater AMX ('68-'70), the "Coke bottle" Javelin/AMX (Mark Donohue racing version and the '74 annual), '72 Torino NASCAR version, pro stock Ford Maverick, and Dodge Challenger funny car. An "AMT" '70 Eldorado was announced but never appeared. Though AMT made a couple of Cadillac promos in the mid-Fifties, they never offered a full detail Cadillac kit until recently (the Escalade EXT). The AMT/Jo-Han arrangement seems to have ended around 1974.

The '68-'70 AMX kits and '68 Toronado were not sold in Jo-Han packaging. The first two-seater AMX kit offered by Jo-Han was the Shirley Shahan 1969 drag car (first available in 1971), then later revised to the near-stock USA Oldies series kit.

[paul alflen]

I THINK WE SHOULD ASK DENNIS DOTY FOR HIS INPUT ON THIS. I WAS TOLD BY A FRIEND OF HIS THAT AMT HAD A STRIKE AT THE PLANT.AMT THEN REBOXED THE JO-HAN MODELS BEING PRODUCED AT THAT TIME. CAN ANYONE VERIFY THIS????

[mr moto]

Here's links to the AMT 65 Coronet instructions & the MPC 67 Charger Instructions where you can see the similarities in the kit parts & the instructions style.

AMT Coronet: http://public.fotki....ets/amt-9/amt-/

MPC Charger: http://public.fotki....7-charger-4n-1/

Back in the day I built several of the "AMT" Coronets. It was one of my favorite kits and I never suspected the MPC connection. Later I bought one of the MPC '67 Chargers and I was astounded by all the familiar parts in the box! Couldn't figure it out.

I'd love to hear the AMT/SMP story. The kits, boxes, everything was so similar that I figured they were really the same company using two different brand names. Can't wait to read about that!