Danno Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I see no reason for us to be complaining here about Brand X. Gregg and Harry do their thing, Kalmbach does theirs. The last time I checked, this was still a free country where we have the pleasure of choosing what we want to read and buy. I, for one, am thankful for whatever I can get in the way of model building content that is different and new. Guys, if we spent as much time creating and planning our next build, as we spend complaining about things we can’t control, we would all increase our completed model output exponentially. I agree with you, Peter. I certainly did not intend for my observations to seem like complaints about SA/noE. For my part of this discourse, I was merely trying to set out the distinctions I see between the two brands. And, I will continue ~ as I said previously ~ to purchase, read and preserve for future reference both titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 IMHO, content in both publications is exceedingly thin. I can't comment on SA, as I never look at it, but content exceedingly thin in MCM? Seriously??? The publication schedule may be inconsistent, but if there's one thing we do consistently, it's offering a wide variety of content... subjects that you will never see in the other magazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 There is one notably absent participant in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Rogers Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 well what upsets me is theres no MOLE's in both magazines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 There is one notably absent participant in this discussion. Are you calling him out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait just a minute there!!!!!!! If you never look at SA, then how in the heck can you make this comment!?! You have no idea what's in SA, so how in the heck can you offer an apt comparison!?! Ken Hamilton does an ongoing column strictly on creating dioramas in each issue of SA, & over the past few years Tim Boyd has covered much of the hobby's history in articles in it's pages. Know what you're arguing about before commencing the dissenting opinions there Harry!! Ok, I should have been more accurate. I don't ever look at SA anymore. I guess I was wrong; I didn't realize that they ran diorama how-tos. But my point is still valid: MCM features a wide range of models and modeling subjects, generally a wider variety than what SA typically runs. And that, IMO, is the main difference between the two magazines: SA is much more tightly focused on cars only, while MCM features a wider range of subject matter along with cars. Neither approach is necessarily "right" or "wrong," one way isn't "better" or "worse" than the other, they're just different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I can't comment on SA, as I never look at it, but content exceedingly thin in MCM? Seriously??? The publication schedule may be inconsistent, but if there's one thing we do consistently, it's offering a wide variety of content... subjects that you will never see in the other magazine. That's one of my favorite things about MCM, if I may be honest. MCM kind of reminds me of SA, back when it was SAE and Gary Schmidt was still at the controls. Heck... Larry Greenburg does the kit reviews, just like in SAE, and Wayne Moyer shows us what's available in the 1:43 and diecast world, just like in SAE years ago. And MCM still has a sketchpad item... something SA did away with about a year or so ago. Oh, and guess where Brad Leisure is now? That and MCM has a more laid-back kind of 'feel' to it. Yes, I do like SA, but I like MCM too. I won't say which one is my favorite, because I'm biased ( ), but the long waits between issues of MCM are about my only gripe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samdiego Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 There is one notably absent participant in this discussion. It certainly wasn't Morgan Freeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Well I can't afford either magazine so I guess I don't have a dog in this hunt! But I have read through both magazines recently and I did have a subcription to SA 2 years ago. (it was a gift) and I found it to be too add filled and just plain flat in content. The same reason I cancelled years ago after the once great mag went through several changes and seemed to lose all it's better writers! I find there to be a big difference between the two with MCM coming out on top! It had a more homespun feel rather than a "Hot Rod" "Car Craft" corporate feel like SA does! I'm not sure but maybe that is what Gregg has in mind! I imagine compared to SA Greggs operation is rather cash strapped which may be the reason for the lighter weight print and not being able to bag it! But contrary to what some seem to think the USPS mangles way more magazines than you think! The lighter paper makes more likely but it is a problem within USPS according to our local postmaster! He suggests that you inform your local post office EVERY TIME you recieve a damaged publication or any mail! I do not believe that the publishers quality control is that bad and it seems the complaints come from the same people, so maybe question your local postmaster! Then order a replacement from the publisher! As to the late issues I am in agreement, that is a problem and would be a deterrent to my suscribing until the issue is corrected. I hope it can be soon as too many threads like this could really hurt business! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Are you calling him out? No. If I were, I'd have written "Gregg, would you please comment on some of the complaints expressed here?" I'd be a total a$$ to think he has need to be "accountable" on his own Forum. I'm actually hoping he's not layed-up with his major health issue. Harry has made it clear that the delay issue is beyond all his (Harry's) efforts to fix. I just realized that 4 or 5 pages ago, when the major complaint was "the mag is never on time" (not the subsequent MCM vs SA war), if Gregg chose to, he could address those points. I'm sure that Gregg is aware that many here like his print baby and just want a reliable delivery schedule and expanded availability beyond subscription as Harry obviously does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 The publication schedule may be inconsistent, but if there's one thing we do consistently, it's offering a wide variety of content... subjects that you will never see in the other magazine. I know from what I've always been told, the best things come to those who WAIT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragline Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I have read the first 2 or 3 pages of this thread til it started getting a little wonky. For me MCM still beats SA/SAE or whatever else they are calling it. I'm not happy with the schedule it has taken, but I get the issues that are released and am always happy I did. I wait till SA/SAE is discounted to 1.00 at my local shop and then I buy it. That's what I think it's worth. NOW, back some years ago SAE was THE mag to buy. It was relentlessly good and had muy content. I posted on the "MCM Want You" thread that I'd be happy to do a couple of articles and was not answered. So I am imagining that there is content galore awaiting publication and that my input was not needed. So the fact that the mag has yet to ship it's 2010 final issues has me baffled a tad. If I see both mags on the rack and I have enough for both I usually buy MCM and wait for SA/SAE to get discounted. My local shop owner understands this and doesn'y hold any enmity towards me for it. We've discussed it at length and he feels the same about SA/SAE content as I do. So I guess it's time to ask Gregg/Harry et all. Are you serious about publishing this thing and become the king? It's RIPE for the picking that's a certainty. I'll submit any amount of well written/photographed articles if they are in short demand. I'm a fan. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Just wanted to through my opinions in the discussion too. I have read most of the commments, but not all and I'll apologze for repeatedness....thats a wird I tihnk repeatedness...repititave comments.....whatever! I am just happy we have two magazines to pick from, to like, dislike whatever, there are alot of interest grops out there that have nothing, hard print, ezine, internet forum.......what have you. Some months I love both magazines, some I dont care for a thing in either one. As mentioned there are pros and cons to each, Like I said, I'm glad there is something out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ken Hamilton does an ongoing column strictly on creating dioramas in each issue of SA,.... Mark, that's nice if you're into that type of thing, but it's one thing I regularly skip over when reading SA. I faithfully read both magazines, and also Finescale Modeler even though I'm not a big plane and military modeler. I honestly only read Finescale to maybe learn some weathering techniques and to learn tips for a few of the non auto related builds I do have on my shelves, but back to the car magazines. First off, I'm enjoying Mark Taylor's articles the past few issues of MCM about resin, since I'm beginning to branch into using resin bodies for a couple planned builds, and they will be reference for when I do start those builds. Compare that to the wonderful trainwreck SA has been doing in every issue about beginner junk, yes that's fine if you are just starting out, but come on, I've known Xuron sprue cutters are the best way to remove parts from a sprue for years! Why dedicate pages EVERY MONTH on the basics most of us all ready know!? I'd rather spend my time reading articles like the two issue article by Randy Derr "Scratchbuilding School: Common Items, Uncommon Uses" instead because there were items mentioned there I never concidered before. Another thing most probably don't care about but is an interest to me is the heavy commerical truck area of the hobby, which SA has more or less said isn't important to them anymore by cutting it from a monthly article to an every other issue article. That means 3 articles per year, where with MCM Tim Boyd's "Truckers Corner" graces EACH ISSUE! Instead, SA would rather fill pages with junk like the "Spotlight" article the run every issue on a different builder, which I find as much of a trainwreck as the beginner stuff. I'm not saying it's not nice to see the models or spotlight the builder, but come on, do you really need to fill sometimes as many as 6 to 8 pages with that garbage!? Overall, I'm with the minority here that feels MCM is the better magazine. It's a much more well rounded magazine and offers me more useful information than does SA. I still buy both, but if it came to where I had to choose which magazine I could buy if I had money for only one, it would clearly be MCM coming home with me, and I say that not because I'm trying to kiss Gregg's you know what or earn Brownie points, that comes straight from this modeler's WALLET! I would rather wait for what I feel is the best than spend my last dollar on garbage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I posted on the "MCM Want You" thread that I'd be happy to do a couple of articles and was not answered. Bob Yes, we want article submissions! That's why I posted that topic! As cliché as it sounds, the truth is that MCM is the "people's magazine!" We love to run features that are written by YOU, the readers! MCM is about us! Sure, we feature articles by pros, but we also feature articles from "regular people." Look back over the past year or two of MCM... you'll find feature articles from many of the members right here on the forum. If any of you ever want to do a feature, just PM me! I'm always looking for more content... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I think this needs to be said, so I'll be the one to say it ... We have writers who contribute to both MCM and SA who post here on this forum. While we may take issue with certain aspects of both magazines, I would hope none of the magazine contributors who might be following this thread would construe anything that's been said here as a knock on their efforts because one thing I thing we can ALL agree on is that these gentleman deserve a hearty round of applause _ a standing ovation, even _ for their contributions to the hobby. Yeah, Harry, that includes you, too ... Thanks, Ken! Yes, it's absolutely true... the people who contribute material either to SA or MCM (or both) are the people who are doing their best to keep this hobby alive, thriving, and interesting. Obviously we couldn't do it without them. So I'm right behind Ken as far as giving a big "thank you" to the people who keep us supplied with content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter31a Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Matthew, while I understand your frustration with repeated beginner articles in Scale Auto (and Fine Scale Modeler is the same way) if you read the questions both in the magazine and on forums so many them are new people that are entering (or reentering) the hobby wanting to know basics. If they pick up a mag at a hobby shop and all the articles are complete builds of contest quality models they would quickly be discouraged. I know I often open scale auto or fine scale and go "not another air brush basics or not another adhesive basics"! But in the end they wouldn't be running these articles if there wasn't a demand from the consumer. And in the different strokes for different folks, I love the diorama columns. I find it most frustrating that so much contest coverage totally ignores dioramas but that's a whole other topic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moparmagiclives Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Ever think about subscribing? Comes right to your door... I'm in the same boat also...never seen one on this side of the pond, And I'm not real big into subscriptions, dont do netflix either...keep it in the community I guess. IDK just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The prevalence of "beginner" articles in SA and FSM stems from the fact that both are mainstream-oriented publications designed to appeal to modelers of all stripes, not just hard-core enthusiasts. MCM, on the other hand, is MUCH more enthusiast-oriented. So it's a good thing we have both! SA for the beginners and MCM for the wingnuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Rogers Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 but no moles or ninjas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMc Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 (edited) So it's a good thing we have both! SA for the beginners and MCM for the wingnuts! Then I must be a beginner wingnut.....I found out in 06...from picking up one of my old Milwaukee friends..Model Railroader, saw the SA next to it, bought it so I could build better HO boxcars...the railroad stuff is stored...but the workroom is all plastic cars and trucks Found this forum and MCM cause of Harry and the ROM contest that got bounced...I've been here since :D Edited January 26, 2011 by Stasch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Matthew, while I understand your frustration with repeated beginner articles in Scale Auto (and Fine Scale Modeler is the same way) if you read the questions both in the magazine and on forums so many them are new people that are entering (or reentering) the hobby wanting to know basics. If they pick up a mag at a hobby shop and all the articles are complete builds of contest quality models they would quickly be discouraged. I know I often open scale auto or fine scale and go "not another air brush basics or not another adhesive basics"! But in the end they wouldn't be running these articles if there wasn't a demand from the consumer. And in the different strokes for different folks, I love the diorama columns. I find it most frustrating that so much contest coverage totally ignores dioramas but that's a whole other topic.... The prevalence of "beginner" articles in SA and FSM stems from the fact that both are mainstream-oriented publications designed to appeal to modelers of all stripes, not just hard-core enthusiasts. MCM, on the other hand, is MUCH more enthusiast-oriented. Peter, I definitely agree, too, that there IS a demand for articles that provide basic meat-and-potatoes modeling info. Think about all the times you see questions like "How do I use Bare Metal Foil?" or "What's the best way to apply decals?" asked on this and other modeling forums! Peter and Ken, I also agree that there is demand for beginner articles, my main gripe is it really necessary to have an article EVERY month? I'm not against beginners or helping beginners, many times I'm the first to offer help here when a question comes up if I know the answer and feel I can help the one asking the question out. I just don't see the point of the articles in every issue, especially since SA also includes the suppliments covering the SAME topics. I know I have at least a forest's worth of those laying around myself. I just feel with the suppliments, the pages of the magazine itself could be better used to help everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highway Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Finally, I refuse to call any of the content of either SA or MCM "garbage", even if it's something with no appeal to me, (see 90% of all diecast articles). Like I've made it a point to state again & again in this thread, I love both magazines & am glad we have both to choose from with different approaches to this hobby. "Garbage" might have been a little harsh, but I still buy that "garbage", too! If all you cater to are the hard core "lunatic fringe" modelers such as you & I,... Hey, I resemble that remark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Just had a thought pop into my head. Hey! That hurts! Wonder if a thread would go on for 8 pages over on that other forum if MCM were mentioned as many times as SA has been named here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Colmer Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 This thread was my lunch entertainment and I finally got home to play too. I was also blown away by a back issue of SAE. It was in the late 80s? It was a GSL contest issue that featured a light tan woody as the winner. It was amazing and - I was not longer building alone. I bought a bunch of back issues, I have bought every issue since and even used the club directory to join the local SAM chapter. I also have just about every magazine I could find since then, which includes Plastic Fanatic and all the MCM issues. They are all kept on shelves and I reread them constantly. I can say that SA did hit a slump recently, but the quality has picked up. They are getting a lot out of recent crop of high end builders. I also liked Jim Haught's article about making mistakes and how to correct them. We all blow it. It's the good one's that go back and fix it. One thing I really miss is the in depth features on one outstanding model car. Not just a center spread with bullet points, but the story and description of the build. The first one of these I remember was Don Fahrni's PS T-Bird. I must have read that article 20 times! It's been said before in the thread that MCM is more of a people's magazine and I have to agree. That is the charm. The family atmosphere that shows in this forum is also apparent in the pages. I applaud the great contest coverage that MCM has been providing. SA seems have gotten back on track with that too. It's also pretty clear that MCM is putting a lot of effort into how-tos. I really like that. Do I want to see more consistency - Yep. Would I like to have MCM NOT be the only magazine that arrives damaged. More than you can imagine. (I have tried to help figure that one out.) I'll always subscribe to both because I Iove almost anything to do with model cars. Some years ago I did the newsletter for the SAM club. It was a photo copy 4 page item with scanned photos. I used a macintosh to put it together. Guess what... It was a lot of work just for that. I applaud the efforts of anyone who is taking the time to put together modeling entertainment for to enjoy. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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