Pros and Cons Some thoughts.

[DRG]

I have been a member here for a little over a year and have noticed something that bothers me a little. Members post the pictures of their builds in the Work-Bench or Under-Glass sections and ask for comments either pro or con. I have done the same thing myself. A vast majority of the builds that are posted are top notch quality and the only comment that can be made is a positive one. But occasionally there is one posted that, shall we say, has problems. I often wonder if we are to harsh in our judgments of those models. Do we consider the age of the person building it? Do we consider the time he has been building models? DO we take into consideration his financial status, perhaps he can not afford BMF.

Perhaps it's because I am a Preacher, but criticism give using harsh tones and words is demeaning and meant to hurt. A critique given in a kind manner tends to encourage the builder to try better. Perhaps you feel that you don't have the time it takes to be kind and understanding. Then perhaps nothing being said would be better.

By the same token those that ask for Pros and Cons should be prepared to accept those things as they are given. Give people the benefit of the doubt, they are trying to be of help.

While there may be those of us that have many things in common there are others that the only common thread between them and you is model building.

Perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to judge another person until we have walked a mile in their shoes.

These are just some thoughts guys, nothing is meant to be offensive.

[SuperStockAndy]

Well, I don't mind criticism, unless it IS harsh.

I ain't no top-notch builder, but I hope to be really good some day and criticism is how I have learned things in the past.

It's the little things that make a big difference.

If there's something I've done wrong on one of my builds, I'd like somebody to point it out so I can correct it on that/next build.

[Harry P.]

To me it's very obvious:

This is a public forum, and there's no way (apart from severe censorship, which we won't do) to sort out all the comments so that only the "nice" ones remain.

If you post pictures of your work on a public forum, you need to accept the fact that the public will respond (as is their tight). You'll get positive comments, negative comments, and sometimes rude comments... but if you post, you're open to comments.

If you can't handle the comments, don't post your work. Simple as that.

[Keef]

To me it's very obvious:

This is a public forum, and there's no way (apart from severe censorship, which we won't do) to sort out all the comments so that only the "nice" ones remain.

If you post pictures of your work on a public forum, you need to accept the fact that the public will respond (as is their tight). You'll get positive comments, negative comments, and sometimes rude comments... but if you post, you're open to comments.

If you can't handle the comments, don't post your work. Simple as that.

agreed!! I post my work on here occasionally, it might not be a contest winning masterpiece, but it is something that im satisfied with, something that i built for my own enjoyment, and if someone has a comment about it, good or bad, i take that suggestion into consideration and try to use it on my next build

[DRG]

Harry, I agree with your statements and I would not want censorship in any form.

I'm just saying that there are times when our words could be better chosen.

[Harry P.]

agreed!! I post my work on here occasionally, it might not be a contest winning masterpiece, but it is something that im satisfied with, something that i built for my own enjoyment, and if someone has a comment about it, good or bad, i take that suggestion into consideration and try to use it on my next build

Exactly!

And if someone posts a comment you don't like, just go with the flow and don't get all freaked out and "offended" (I'm not talking about you, I mean people who post photos in general).

[Keef]

Exactly!

And if someone posts a comment you don't like, just go with the flow and don't get all freaked out and "offended" (I'm not talking about you, I mean people who post photos in general).

OMG IM FREAKED OUT AND OFFENDED YOU WOULD SAY THAT!!! LOL j/k but yeah i know what you mean

[Lunajammer]

I post photos because I delight in showing off my labors. I do so knowing there are far better modelers than me and if they are inclined they may make honest, possibly impulsive comments. Pleasant comments are nice but I'm not motivated by them. Critical comments are just expressions and are probably pointing out flaws I'm already aware of. No comments at all are not to be considered a comment. Not everybody has the same social skills or even verbal skills. While I quite enjoy the dialogue, I also don't seek self affirmation from feedback. I just like a place besides a dusty shelf to present my interests and it is what it is.

[FASTBACK340]

Well, the Pro's & Con's of this post are amusing!

I agree. Well chosen words and positive direction are always helpful. Especially if done through a private message and not on the forums. This prevents riots and hurt feelings.

I moderated on a Mopar forum for a few years and believe me, more fires were started because you CAN'T type emotion into a post. More misunderstandings were started with a misworded post than I'd care to remember! When something is printed, there's no sense of intention. At least through a PM if there's a misunderstanding the entire forum isn't choosing sides....because of what someone might have meant.

And that's my opinion. Bite me....

<ducking and running for cover....>

[sobpinstriping]

you CAN'T type emotion into a post. I was just thinking the same thing, the problem with the internet is you cant hear what the person is saying just read it and that makes it hard to know how they intended their comment to come across.

[highway]

you CAN'T type emotion into a post. I was just thinking the same thing, the problem with the internet is you cant hear what the person is saying just read it and that makes it hard to know how they intended their comment to come across.

Yes, while it is true you can't tell what type of emotion someone is using just by reading the words typed, if more (at least here) would use the emoticons (the little smileys), it might help others understand what tone you would be using in face to face speaking. For example, if you are asking a question where you are unsure of why the poster used a certain color for something, using the "unsure" emoticon may help the one posting the model understand you are simply asking them a valid question instead of slamming their color choice.

Another example is if you are saying something in a joking fashion, why not show that you would be laughing while saying it in real life with the lol emoticon ? If you click on the smiley face in the reply box's toolbar, the emoticons will show up on the right side of the reply screen, and maybe that will help show what tone your typed words are being said in.

[Harry P.]

I have been a member here for a little over a year...

Are you using the Mayan calendar?

(Joined May 2010)...

[tylersloan]

all of you make great points i post my builds when i can and i hope i get good and bad feedback its the only way i can make my builds and skill better .

on that note i have been posting on other forums and have learned to get thick skin and let the comments roll off my back and read in to what they say so i can better myself .

[Jordan White]

Are you using the Mayan calendar?

(Joined May 2010)...

Maybe he's counting his lurking presence as membership?

[DRG]

Wow, really, I thought it had been longer than that.

Oh well, count it to old age I guess.

[diymirage]

i think a perfect case in point is a certain member here

he is younger then most and does great work for his age and expierience level

but he got to a point where he would post pictures of his work that was very nice overall but the painted trim was sub par and it brought the entire model down

several people commented on it and suggested the use of BMF, something he resisted (which is his good right) fervently for a while

then all of a sudden a post pops up in the general section in which he is raving about his firs expierience with BMF

my point is that when the critisism was first made he was not happy with it (though the same thing was repeated several times and that might have been part of it)

but after he considered it he took on the challenge and now is able to make a better model because of it

(since your a preacher ill venture to say that the principle of hebrews 12:11 applies here)

and as an awnser to the origenal question, i know that for some of the younger members here (specially the more active ones) the forum seems to be aware of thier age and skill and does take that into account

i remember seeing a under glass post by one of these and reading the comment a older builder left them "you have made some great progress since you joined"

i think we generally do allright but like mentioned before, intonation is lost in typing so sometimes we are misunderstood

[highway]

Wow, really, I thought it had been longer than that.

Oh well, count it to old age I guess.

It's not that Don, I was counting it into the "Time flies when you're having fun" category!!

[crazyjim]

Being able to post my builds here (and only here) provides me the opportunity to share what I do with you, my fellow MCM members. I get positive and negative comments on my builds. I don't care to read the negatives, but it provides me with feedback that I try to turn into a positive in my next build.

[Eshaver]

Donald, no sense re-posting all of what you said as it simply takes too much bandwidth. The comments were well said along with Harry P's comeback . Well said , both of ya !!!!!!! Ed Shaver

[Guest]

A lot of it depends on the person also. You never know who can and can't take criticism. If one is giving constuctive criticism,they need to choose their words wisely. Also, before they hit the "add reply" button, read it as if it were directed towards themselves. When a person asks for comments good or bad(especially when they start a topic about it),then they very well better be prepared for the bad as well as the good. As the old saying goes,"careful what you wish for,you just may get it".

[charlie8575]

While we might subject ourselves to the whims of other board members by posting our in-progress and end-products, here, as Harry rightly pointed out, Donald makes a very valid point.

Civility and gentle guidance makes (usually) a far more positive result than harsh words, brow-beating and belittling.

I taught junior/senior high school for almost a decade. One thing I found that generally got the results I wanted was to try and take the time to point out to the student what he did right, not just his faults and short-comings, and then work with him to correct those problems.

While it might not always work, if you garner a reputation of courtesy and respect rather than harshly-worded broadside criticisms, your instruction may go much farther.

The attentive ear receives knowledge from the instructive tounge, as the line so goes. However, to make sure that instruction is received, and received well, that instruction should be careful not to belittle or marginalize the recipient in any way, lest the core message be lost.

Criticism is a needed part of growing in all facets of life, however, to do so in such a manner that it demeans the recipient and makes you look like a loud-mouthed lout makes things worse for us all.

Charlie Larkin

[sjordan2]

While we might subject ourselves to the whims of other board members by posting our in-progress and end-products, here, as Harry rightly pointed out, Donald makes a very valid point.

Civility and gentle guidance makes (usually) a far more positive result than harsh words, brow-beating and belittling.

I taught junior/senior high school for almost a decade. One thing I found that generally got the results I wanted was to try and take the time to point out to the student what he did right, not just his faults and short-comings, and then work with him to correct those problems.

While it might not always work, if you garner a reputation of courtesy and respect rather than harshly-worded broadside criticisms, your instruction may go much farther.

The attentive ear receives knowledge from the instructive tounge, as the line so goes. However, to make sure that instruction is received, and received well, that instruction should be careful not to belittle or marginalize the recipient in any way, lest the core message be lost.

Criticism is a needed part of growing in all facets of life, however, to do so in such a manner that it demeans the recipient and makes you look like a loud-mouthed lout makes things worse for us all.

Charlie Larkin

Charlie, I don't know what you mean by this. I cannot recall a single instance where criticism of a build started out with anything less than civility and constructive opinions, without any harshness intended. Generally, the sort of criticisms you are talking about result from responses to a bad reaction by the original poster, such as the reason for this particular thread.

Edited April 17, 2011 by sjordan2

[wisdonm]

Is this a problem? Nobody ever says anything about my work. Maybe your all just being kind.

Edited April 18, 2011 by wisdonm

[tylersloan]

i can understand some of us dont have the cash to spend on BMF and quality paint plug wires ETC. as a out of work dad i totally understand ive seen both sides of the fence here ive had money to blow on a hobby and ive been broke but i dont think that stops some one from building there best in to a kit it all comes down to skill here.

we need to take in to account the persons age and how long they have been building and maybe offer guidance when its needed you never know the guy that you tell his build is messed up may be a kid or a old person who cant see that well .

just thought i would add this to my last post take my words for what its worth guys and remember its just a hobby its supposed to be fun

[ericfreeman]

Dear Padre Don,

Thanks for your thoughts. It is true a kind word goes a lot further than thoughtless criticism when trying to help somebody. It is also true that once something is posted on the internet it becomes public domain. From what I have seen, many members who ask for opinions are really looking for praise. I have always lived by the motto, "If you're afraid of the answer, don't ask the question."

PS...And I am sure I speak for others, Spellcheck, Please!