i finally solved the jdm vs. usdm fight!!!

[Corvette.Jeff]

I think i finally figured out the answer to whats better, either something from JDM land, or something from the good ol' USA...

First off this is not fact, its plainly my opinion, im not intending to offend anyone or get under anybodys skin, its plainly just to share my thoughts.

Yes this does have something to do with model cars!!!! i saw the discussion on the trueno thread.

Iv'e owned a few cars now.

This is my take.

My first real car was a 1984 Corvette. I loved the car, it was fast, fun to drive, and could easily beat other cars. I took on a few Hondas, a Few v6 firebirds and other cars in the same power range.

My 'vette factory stock came with about 210 H.P. to the 10.5" rear tires, 1/4 mile was about 14-15 sec(estimated) it had around 160k on the clock and probably had around 190 H.P. left in the old 350. it was like a little go cart!!! this car made me a true hardcore bowtie fanatic, would i buy another c4 if i had the coin? you bet your rear!!!!

Now heres the kicker,

My current car is a 1994 hond crx Del Sol SI, it has the mighty 1.6 litre 4cyl. engine all stock, from factory it had about 125 to the front wheels, with 168k on the clock it has maybe 100 hp now. i havent had a chance to get this car out and see how she does but its a fast little car, i love it and with the 5 speed it just puts a cherry on top.

whats my point you ask?

I've tasted a little from both the Tuner side, and a little from the muscle side(dont even)!

both are about in the same class and if they met at a red light it would be a good race,

in the vette i did have the chance to run with a few "high power" cars, i took on a evo 8 and kept up for a while in the 'vette and kept up with a new ss camaro earlier today.

To put it simple, i honestly think both are best.

I loved he 'vette, and i adore the sol.

Also remember this, i used to be a diehard Chevy fan!! and now i like Hondas.

Jeff

[jeff ewaskey]

Can say I understand where you are coming from, Jeff. I too have a C4 Corvette, 1986 with 131000 miles on the clock and I truly love the car. Its far from perfect but the price was right and its a blast to drive. Been a GM guy my whole life but I do appreciate the tuner car movement. In the right hands the tuners can be just as fast and just as sweet to look at. I have never owned one personally but know people who do and have driven them and they are also a blast.

[LAone]

finally some see the light.

im a toyota guy(cough, avatar<<<) like i said on another thread, i would love to one day own a 66 nova, but till that day comes. ill be in my little toyota go-karts.

i appreciate this thread.

[Lownslow]

the stereotypes and stigmas that corvettes are stuck with makes them very unappealing to own one in 1:1

ill stick to trucks on this one jdm or otherwise

[ra7c7er]

I don't really think you can compare a "tuner" car to a Corvette. They are built to be two completely different things.

[highway]

Honestly, in my humble opinion, this is just like trying to sovle a Ford vs Chevy fight, it ain't gonna happen!!

Seriously, I've owned many different vehicles in my day and I bleed Ford Blue, there are two Blue Ovals in my driveway right now, but some of my best vehicles have been any but a Ford. It really all comes down to what you want out of the car and how you drive it as to how the car is the "best" for you. Heck, one I still wish I had was a JDM!! I had a 1990 Izusu 4x4 pickup, and I wish I still had it! It had a 4 cylinder and 5 speed, got nice gas mileage even running 32 inch tires, and could run 100 mph down the interstate all day long, which it did many times thanks to what my friends called the "Highwayman Mobile Communtications Center"!! Between the CB radio, scanner, and radar detector, there wasn't a cop around I didn't know about!!

Nowadays, I don't care as much about fast like I did in my twenties when I had the Izusu and also a 1988 Trans Am GTA, I care more about getting from point A to point B, and the fuel mileage along the way. It also doesn't matter what badge is on it either, just as long as it gets me there.

[MikeMc]

I'm stupid.....nor do I want to be PC

THAT SAID.......I AM A PROUD AMERICAN.....I RIDE AND DRIVE AMERICAN.

AS MANY OF US OLD BIKERS SAY

"WE DON'T CARE HOW THEY DO IT IN JAPAN"

GOD BLESS THE USA.....THE ONLY PLACE FOR FREEDOM AND FREE THOUGHT

THESE ARE MY THOUGHTS....AND AS MUCH AS I LOVE THE USA...MY SON IS A CERTIFIED BMW TECH AND OWNS A TWIN TURBO AUDI AS3...THAT DESTROYS MY BIG INCH V TWIN.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Harry P.

[mikemodeler]

I grew up in a union family and my Father has never owned a foreign automobile( well, if you don't count the Chevy that was built in Canada that is!)and therefore I had a love of American made cars like most kids from the '60s.

In 1980 I went to work at a Mercedes/BMW dealership and learned to appreciate German engineering and how well those cars were built. The same dealership also sold Chryslers and I think most folks would agree that the early '80's were not the best of times for the Pentastar and I got to see first hand the difference between a "foreign" and a "domestic" vehicle.

I personally bought Chevies and Fords up until last year despite working in the automotive field selling replacement parts for import (foreign nameplate) vehicles since the mid-90's. Some of it was a preference for a certain type of vehicle, some of it was because of a great deal. The reality of it all is that last year when we traded in our 5 year old Chevy Equinox on a 2 year old Hyundai Santa Fe, we got a car with more "domestic" content by purchasing a "foreign" vehicle!

Today, like it or not, the foreign vehicle manufacturers employ more Americans than the domestic vehicle manufacturers. Some states that could never attract the Big 3 to build a car assembly plant now have several foreign plants. The quality of the vehicles on the road today have greatly improved and as evidenced by the Toyota recall last year, no one is immune to having problems. (I still think the whole gas pedal problem was overblown as a means to help the domestic companies, much like blaming Ford for the Firestone tire issues from years ago)

As Double D put it, drive what you like, especially if it fits your needs!

[TurboKitty]

both of my parents worked at Ford, they both owned Fords when I was growing up (Ranger and T-Bird). They've also owned Dodges, Pontiacs, and even Chevrolets (I am including daily drivers as well as some classic iron, a '71 GTO, '65 Malibu SS, '80 Corvette, '77 Firebird, etc). I've had 4 Dodges, an Oldsmobile, a Pontiac, a Chrysler, a Chevy, a Honda, and a Toyota. Best car I've ever owned? My '95 Toyota Celica GT hatchback, hands down. It was the most reliable, the most comfortable, convenient, best on gas, handled like a go cart, and the quality (compared to all of the American cars I've owned) was far superior. Sure, there are cars made today that I wouldn't mind owning that are American, but there are Imports that are on my list too. I'm straight down the middle. American cars in general still haven't equaled the quality of Imports yet, but Ford is coming close, with Chrysler not too far behind. The funny thing is that most people don't even realize that 90% of the time their "American" car is either made outside of the US, or it consists of (gasp!) a percentage of Foreign made parts. Also that there are many "Import" cars that are made here in the US, such as some from Subaru, Toyota, and Honda for starters (parts might be made elsewhere but the cars are constructed and sold here).

Want a truly American made car? Buy a Toyota Camry .

[Corvette.Jeff]

I don't really think you can compare a "tuner" car to a Corvette. They are built to be two completely different things.

actually i have to say your wrong.

Ive driven my little honda on alot of the same roads i use to drive the 'vette on out in the country.

If anything the Del Sil is 100x better to drive, it makes you expect massive understear but doesnt, the corvette used to have massive amounts of oversteer in the corners. Although, you do expect it.

Ive also taken it around some of the same corners as well, the del sol can easily be pushed more.

power wise the corvette had more hp, and was a little lighter, but the del sol weighs less so it has a better power to weight ratio.

yo put it plainly, same beast of a car, but the del sol is just a bit better, but theyre pretty much the same thing.

Edited June 3, 2011 by Corvette.Jeff

[Kit Basher]

The lines are awfully blurry these days. My '96 Probe says Ford on the hood, and "Made in the U.S.A" on the door sticker, but we all know it's a Mazda. The sticker says "Made by Autoalliance International for Ford Motor Co." The Ford badge on the valve cover is held on with screws, so if we're making Mazdas today instead of Fords, we can just screw on a different badge. (And add some to the price!)

[Corvette.Jeff]

kida like the whole its not a dodge its a mopar, or a plymouth, its all still a dodge. just as chrysler and jeep are.

just like pontiac, and saturn are all gm.

[Agent G]

I've owned a lot of cars, and a lot of bikes over the years.

My favorite car is my present ride, an '05 Lincoln Town Car. Just the ticket for an old pot bellied semi retired guy.

I will have to say my fave bike of all time (so far) is my '95 BMW R100RT. The old airhead boxer has the maintainence requirements of a brick, and just keeps going and going.

There've been a few come and gone since I bought the Beemer new, a Ducati, a MotoGuzzi, and a Honda, but I will always keep the BMW.

G

Edited June 3, 2011 by AgentG

[Rob Hall]

I've never had a Japanese car, but have had a mix of American (Ford, Jeep) and German (BMW, Mercedes) cars over the years...am leaning towards the Mopar side for my next new car (maybe a Charger R/T or 300C)..

Lots of different flavors makes life (and car enthusiasm) interesting...

[Harry P.]

These days it's very hard to tell a "foreign" car from a "domestic" car. The labels are almost meaningless, few cars are actually built only in the country that they are supposedly "from"...

[Rob Hall]

These days it's very hard to tell a "foreign" car from a "domestic" car. The labels are almost meaningless, few cars are actually built only in the country that they are supposedly "from"...

I distinguish import from domestic by what country the car company is based in...i.e. Ford, GM, Chrysler--US. Honda, Toyota- Japan. VW, Mercedes, BMW--Germany, Hyundai, Kia- Korea....etc.

Where a product is manufactured is kind of secondary..like an iPod or iPad--they may be made in China, but Apple is an American company..

[wisdonm]

I have a 2500 pound sports car with 400+ American horse power.

I also have an Austin Healey Arkley with maybe 125 horse power.

It is just fact that it is more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow.

Second gear and up are illegal in my Italia.

[Harry P.]

Is a new Rolls-Royce a British car? How about a new Jaguar? A British car?

[Harry P.]

It gets even weirder when you get to the platforms and components. Rolls uses very obviously-BMW platforms. I mean, it's a 7-series under there. The Jags and Land Rovers have Ford ovals stamped on them even today, because despite the Indian ownership, they still use Ford designed/manufactured parts. I mean, the Land Rovers have 5.0 Mustangish engines. How British is that...and they're owned by an Indian company.

It's one of those things that's not really worth losing a lot of sleep over if you ask me...

My point is, the distinction between a "foreign" and a "domestic" car has all but disappeared, so the whole "Japanese vs. US" concept (to get back to the original post) doesn't apply anymore. Cars are a global commodity these days, and the old distinction between foreign and domestic doesn't apply anymore.

[Monty]

I don't want to flame anyone here, but there's a lot of "stuff" in this thread that's just factually flawed.

First, even thinking that comparing a 25+ year old car to one 10 years less old proves anything, well, doesn't. By the time cars get to be of that age their condition, mileage, and maintenance have a lot more to do with how they run (or don't) than anything else.

Then, to compare cars from two different decades that sold for very different prices, designed for completely separate users, one front-drive, one rear, one a V-8 one a 4-cylinder...it's just apples to oranges.

The Corvette has .0633 hp/per pound, Del Sol at best .0631/pound (160 horse Si model) other 1.6 Del Sols have .055/pound, so the Corvette has an equal-or-better power-to-weight ratio. However there's a tremendous advantage to the Corvette in Torque, which should be obvious enough because the Corvette is much faster in a straight line if both are running properly. Also, in the subjective realm of handling, the Del Sol may seem lively enough, but in ultimate cornering grip the Corvette is of another magnitude. .95g to .84g means as far as cornering speeds, the Corvette would be in another league.

I'm not defending the Vette, just pointing out the capabilities of the cars. The Vette should out-perform the Del Sol. It was a high-cost sports car in it's day, and here it's being compared to an economy car from another era, but both are ancient history compared to any 2011 cars.

Compare that Del Sol to a 1994 Vette? The performance gulf would be even more enormous. It's only to fair compare cars from the same era if you're going to make a "this company (or country) builds a better car than that company (or country)" statement from the comparison.

Any comparison would only be valid for new-vs-new, same vehicle price point, same type of car. That's usually hard to keep entirely consistent...and even then, the differences are subjective. One will be faster, or go around a race track quicker, those kinds of things can be verified. But is that all that matters? How much do you weigh gas mileage, cost differences, or how comfortable the car is in contrast to it's top speed or 1/4 mile time? What about those other subjective things like predicted resale value or brand image, or...or...no 2 people see that stuff the same anyhow, so it's pointless to argue those points.

People like Japanese cars, people like German cars, people like American cars, etc. As long as they do, they'll keep building them. Simple as that. Buy what you want, but realize that not everyone shares your likes and dislikes, so they might favor something completely different.

Thanks for injecting some sanity into a volatile subject. I disagreed vigorously with the OP, so I started to answer this myself last night.

Eventually I noticed that my reply was starting to look like the first draft of a dissertation and I figured no one on here would've bothered to read it, so I went to bed. Fortunately, you made most of the points I wanted to. Thanks again!

Edited June 4, 2011 by Monty

[Longbox55]

much like blaming Ford for the Firestone tire issues from years ago

Plenty of balme to around on that one. Ford was just as much at fault as Firestone. They insisted on running a 4 ply tire at way too low of a pressure (26 psi) for the vehicle weight, all in the name of ride quality. Firestone told them that the running pressure needed to be higher, or a larger tire needed to be used (like Toyota and Nissan did with their suvs with the same tire). Now, I'm laying all the blame of Ford, there were quality and construction issues with the Wilderness tires supplied to Ford by Firestone, but there were no reported similar failures of the same tire used as oem fitment on any of the other applications, including Chevrolet/GMC C/K, S/T 10, Toytota 4-Runner, and the Nissan Frontier/Pathfinder. There were also no reported failures with aftermarket versions of the Wilderness.

BTW, there is a bit of humor involved on the Firestone side. The plant code for the majority of the Wilderness tires recalled was VD. The plant in question was the Dacature IL plant, which ended up getting closed when Ford passed the buck onto Firestone.

[Rob Hall]

Is a new Rolls-Royce a British car? How about a new Jaguar? A British car?

I'd argue they are, as the business units are still UK based, though the corporate parents are not. Likewise for the Mini.

[Rob Hall]

I mean, the Land Rovers have 5.0 Mustangish engines.

Actually, IIRC the current Land Rover V8 (after the BMW V8) is the Jaguar V8, which is related to the small V8 from the Lincoln LS and Thunderbird...no relation to the Mustang V8s..(i.e. the modular 4.6/5.4 family or the new 5.0).

[Dwight55]

I see both sides. I own a 92 Vette, my wife a 95 Prelude, Vtech 5sp. Needless to say the Vette will chew up and spit out the Prelude. But heres another thought. Both of these cars are pushing the 20 year old mark. The new Vettes are ground-pounding fire breathing monsters. What has ANY Jap car got that can compare????? I'll take a Vette any day.

[jeff ewaskey]

There are many valid points made by everyone here but my point was more that I really appreciate any car, no matter where or by whom it was built, that does what it was intendid to do well. Import or domestic is very clouded these days but yes, other than being of the 2 seat variety, the Vette & Del Sol are quite different. Alot depends on what the car, or truck, does for the person who owns and drives them. Yes I have my trusty C4 Vette but have owned over time a custom GMC truck, V8 powered Vega, 2000 Camaro Z/28, Jeeps and lifted 4X4 s as well and for one reason or another loved them all