i finally solved the jdm vs. usdm fight!!!

[Corvette.Jeff]

I think my original comment got miscunstrued a bit.

I wasnt saying either was better, i was trying to say this.

Since everyone who has ever compared a little 4 cyl car(usually a honda) to a v8 american car(usually something with muscle) thats what i did with cars i have owned.

While i do love the little honda, i miss the 'vette terribly, and after college i plan on buying another, most likely a c5.

in my comparison though i was simply trying to state that neither is better, and i dont care about numbers, if i still had my vette and i had the honda it would be a good race. the vette would win eventually but it WOULD be a good race non the less.

as far as te motorcycle comments, this has nothing to do with them, if it was up to me there would be none of those idiots out on the roads, some riders i dont mind, the ones i hate are the "hardcore bikers" we all know the kind, loud pipes, ape hangers(kill sticks) lots of harley leather and all that other ###### that think just because they are on two wheels they can do whatever they please. No thank you.

[Erik Smith]

not always, my car is made in japan, even says it under the hood.

There are certain models of Japanese cars that are never imported to the US and were/are available only to the domestic Japanese market. That is what a JDM is. A car manufactured in Japan for a foreign market is not a JDM vehicle. The older Toyotas (78 and 84 trucks) and Hondas (82 Accord and 85 Acura) I have owned were made in Japan but for import to the US market.

Not real important to this discussion as the post is more about Japanese VS American cars, not JDM vs USDM, which woul be very limited and more difficult to compare as most of us have little to no experience driving true JDM cars.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Coyotehybrids

[Longbox55]

Kid, i gotta say, i disagree with you. copos are overrated, all it really is is a stock camaro with some stickers and go fast goodies. also, a copo isnt even stock, its all dealer added ie. aftermarket.

That's not really correct. In the case of a COPO car, which stands for Central Office Production Order, they were in fact factory built cars. Sometimes, it could just be a special run of a non-stock color, like for fleet use (very common on trucks), or cars equipped a certain way for police or taxi use. Other times, it was a performance package, with special engines not normally found, plus suspension packages, brakes, etc. But these cars wre certainly not just "add on stickers and go fast goodies", they were factory built, not dealer. What you're thinking of are the dealer built cars, like the Baldwin-Motion, pre-'68 Yenkos, Grand Spaulding Dodge, and probably several others I can't think of at the moment. In those cases, the dealer would take a stock car and modify it. Even then, those cars were a step above the stock offering, and can be rare. I suppose I can see where one can think that COPO cars and dealer altereds are the same thing, as many of them (Yenko and Baldwin Motion) used a COPO as the base, then altered it from there.

[CEKPETHO BCE]

Kid, i gotta say, i disagree with you. copos are overrated, all it really is is a stock camaro with some stickers and go fast goodies. also, a copo isnt even stock, its all dealer added ie. aftermarket.

you can say you hate ricers all you want, chances are youll end up with an import for your first car, it took me forever to save up for my corvette( 18 when i bought it)

You do realize that COPO Camaro's came with a 427 ci engine, right? Isn't really stock...

Anyways are people really comparing performance of 40 year old muscle cars with modern imports? If anything you should be comparing cars from the same time period to be fair... obviously a brand new GTR will outperform a 40 year old Camaro... at the same time you people shouldn't be comparing a honda civic to something like a corvette in terms of performance...

[highway]

There are certain models of Japanese cars that are never imported to the US and were/are available only to the domestic Japanese market. That is what a JDM is.

A fine example, the Nissan Skyline.

[SuperStockAndy]

Kid, i gotta say, i disagree with you. copos are overrated, all it really is is a stock camaro with some stickers and go fast goodies. also, a copo isnt even stock, its all dealer added ie. aftermarket.

I disagree with that logic.

COPO stands for Central Office Production Order. That means you could order the vehicles directly from Chevrolet, with whatever options you want(well, whatever works, anyway).

Some of Don Yenko's Camaros were COPOs.

Now, it IS stock, as it IS out of the factory. It's just a faster stock version.

Basically, you could order a COPO Camaro with a straight six or a 427.

I will, however, give you this; Muscle cars DO lack on top speed. But, if their gear ratios were longer, then they could be going faster.

[Darin Bastedo]

I disagree with that logic.

COPO stands for Central Office Production Order. That means you could order the vehicles directly from Chevrolet, with whatever options you want(well, whatever works, anyway).

Some of Don Yenko's Camaros were COPOs.

Now, it IS stock, as it IS out of the factory. It's just a faster stock version.

Basically, you could order a COPO Camaro with a straight six or a 427.

I will, however, give you this; Muscle cars DO lack on top speed. But, if their gear ratios were longer, then they could be going faster.

I don't know where you are getting your info from, but there were only two C.O.P.O Camaro runs The ragular 427s and the all aluminum ZL-1 Camaros. The inline sixes were the standard engine in Camaros there would be no reason to create a central office production order for them.

[Rob Hall]

You do realize that COPO Camaro's came with a 427 ci engine, right? Isn't really stock...

Anyways are people really comparing performance of 40 year old muscle cars with modern imports? If anything you should be comparing cars from the same time period to be fair... obviously a brand new GTR will outperform a 40 year old Camaro... at the same time you people shouldn't be comparing a honda civic to something like a corvette in terms of performance...

I wouldn't compare a 40 yr old anything with a modern car..too many different parameters and changes. Comparisons are only of value when comparing two models of the same year/same era. Otherwise, it's pretty pointless...

Edited June 6, 2011 by Rob Hall

[Darin Bastedo]

Of course there never can be a solution to this as it is such a subjectine issue with too many variables. Both the US and Japanese car companies have made some really awesome machinery but at the same time both made some real garbage too. You can go ahead and compare the Nissan GTR with the Corvette ZR-1, but at the same time you can compare the cadillac cimmeron with the Datsun B210. either way it all comes down to preferance. Even the purely objective data is meaningless, The current Camaro is faster and more comfortable than a mid 60's Ferrari 250 series car, but who wouldn't want to just once take a 1962 ferrari GTO and see what it will do around Laguna Seca? The 2011 Porsche 911 Turbo S is faster than a Ferrari Enzo, but wouldn't you still love to play with the phenominal engine sounds and F1 inspired character of the Enzo?

A Jaguar D-Type is crude by todays standards but who wouldn't love to take it to Lemans and see what it will do? Who wouldn't love to Take a black 1958 Porsche 356 Speedster and play Steve McQueen for a day on mulholland? Performance cars, like people, have different personalities. Depending on how well those traits mesh with your own personality, is how you choose the cars you love.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Darin Bastedo

[Longbox55]

The inline sixes were the standard engine in Camaros there would be no reason to create a central office production order for them.

Sure there is. Not all COPO cars are performance models. Take the Indy Pace Car '67 and '69 Camaros, those are both COPO cars. Or even more mundane, a group of delaers in a given area ordering a location specific variant, perhaps with a special color not usually found, but otherwise a regular production car. Something similar to that happened here about 15 years ago. A few local dealers got together and had a run of C1500 W/T trucks made in a Teal Metallic, which was at the time, a Beretta only color. Other than the color, they were basic W/T trucks, V6, grey interior (IIRC, they all had the cloth upgrade) regular steelies with trim rings.

[Darin Bastedo]

Sure there is. Not all COPO cars are performance models. Take the Indy Pace Car '67 and '69 Camaros, those are both COPO cars. Or even more mundane, a group of delaers in a given area ordering a location specific variant, perhaps with a special color not usually found, but otherwise a regular production car. Something similar to that happened here about 15 years ago. A few local dealers got together and had a run of C1500 W/T trucks made in a Teal Metallic, which was at the time, a Beretta only color. Other than the color, they were basic W/T trucks, V6, grey interior (IIRC, they all had the cloth upgrade) regular steelies with trim rings.

I was speaking of 1969 C.O.P.O engine packages, there were probably a lot of small special paint or interior orders, but what I was refuting was his assertion that the C.O.P.O was a regular ordering system that was used as a regular ordering tool. A C.O.P.O had to be applied to the Central office, it would have to be approved and then priced by the Central office and sent back to the dealer. not every request was approved and they usually turned out to be quite pricey. There is no documented cases of any Six cylinder cars being ordered through the C.O.P.O system ever. If he has documentation I would be interested in seeing it.

[Longbox55]

OK, I'll give you that. From the research I've done, it seems that anything that didn't require engineering changes, like the 427 cars, didn't get assigned a COPO number. They were processed through the same channels, though. I did find another COPO code for the '69 Camaro, though, 9737 Sports Car Kit. The description was somewhat vague, as it was lumped in with the 9561 description, but it basically amounts to the Z-28 15" wheels, tires, and front sway bar. It appears to have been at least an SS396 option.

[Darin Bastedo]

OK, I'll give you that. From the research I've done, it seems that anything that didn't require engineering changes, like the 427 cars, didn't get assigned a COPO number. They were processed through the same channels, though. I did find another COPO code for the '69 Camaro, though, 9737 Sports Car Kit. The description was somewhat vague, as it was lumped in with the 9561 description, but it basically amounts to the Z-28 15" wheels, tires, and front sway bar. It appears to have been at least an SS396 option.

How's this for a rare 1969 Camaro/ SS350 Yellow with a yellow houndstooth interior.

[ChrisPflug]

Of course, going back to the original post, I'm surprised nobody has brought up the social side of the argument- One would definitely need to turn in their "man card" to drive a Del Sol

[Darin Bastedo]

the coolest part of that Camaro, is the Big Daddy tachometer that yellow interior is UGLY!

i've seen some very cool and nicely done "tuned" or modified Del Sol's but agree, a man driving a stock one around i hope it's your wife or GF's car the only thing worse than that could be either a Metro or Capri convertible.

You forgot the ultimate "chick car" the VW Rabbit/Golf Cabrio in white.

[Rob Hall]

You forgot the ultimate "chick car" the VW Rabbit/Golf Cabrio in white.

Or a BMW 3-series cabrio..another very popular woman's car...or the New Beetle cabrio..

One 'chick' car (that sounds so 1970s) that I wouldn't hesitate to drive is a Miata..they are a lot of fun on winding back roads...

[Pete J.]

Ok guys it looks like this is degenerating into a "guy" thing and it is very fun to watch but be careful about calling a car a "chick' or "girl" car because it is small and nicely shaped. I have had my share of muscle cars(new 69 Mustang) and Japanese sports (72 240Z & 93 MR2 Turbo) and high end Euro cars(74 911) and I have to agree with the first statement. Each has it's own character and can be a ton of fun to drive, whether you like the kick in the back for a 427 or getting slammed around the cockpit with a high g corner monster, each provides its own thrills. There is no such thing as "the Best" car. Every enthusiast car I've owned was a kick and they were each like my children. I don't love one more than the other, I just like different things about each. No one car was the best at everything. That is because they all are engineering compromises. You can't have light weight for cornering with big motors for acceleration. They just tear them selves apart. You make compromises, but they all put a smile on my face no matter the country or manufacture of origin.

By the way, who ever mentioned the Miata, never heard of the MX 5.0. It was made by a company here in San Marcos, Ca. and had a 302 with a Dodge truck rear end. They were all tubbed so you really didn't know what you were up against until it was way too late. I know of one that was pumped up to 700 HP. It would rip the toupee of your head! Very much like a Cobra at about 10% of the current cost.

[Darin Bastedo]

By the way, who ever mentioned the Miata, never heard of the MX 5.0. It was made by a company here in San Marcos, Ca. and had a 302 with a Dodge truck rear end. They were all tubbed so you really didn't know what you were up against until it was way too late. I know of one that was pumped up to 700 HP. It would rip the toupee of your head! Very much like a Cobra at about 10% of the current cost.

I'll take this Miata...

[Rob Hall]

I suspect those V8 Miatas handle like pigs, though...they weren't designed for a heavy V8 up front..the whole point of the Miata is it's a light, nimble sports car, not a straight-line musclecar...

[h3ae86]

did this start from my thread? if it did wow, i don't see why everyone was arguing. I love both sides. Muscle has raw power, and tuners are just plain fun and with work can be just as powerful. I have never heard an answer that's actually shown how one side is better than the other, and i never will so there is no reason to fight over which is better.

[LAone]

Ok guys it looks like this is degenerating into a "guy" thing and it is very fun to watch but be careful about calling a car a "chick' or "girl" car because it is small and nicely shaped. I have had my share of muscle cars(new 69 Mustang) and Japanese sports (72 240Z & 93 MR2 Turbo) and high end Euro cars(74 911) and I have to agree with the first statement. Each has it's own character and can be a ton of fun to drive, whether you like the kick in the back for a 427 or getting slammed around the cockpit with a high g corner monster, each provides its own thrills. There is no such thing as "the Best" car. Every enthusiast car I've owned was a kick and they were each like my children. I don't love one more than the other, I just like different things about each. No one car was the best at everything. That is because they all are engineering compromises. You can't have light weight for cornering with big motors for acceleration. They just tear them selves apart. You make compromises, but they all put a smile on my face no matter the country or manufacture of origin.

By the way, who ever mentioned the Miata, never heard of the MX 5.0. It was made by a company here in San Marcos, Ca. and had a 302 with a Dodge truck rear end. They were all tubbed so you really didn't know what you were up against until it was way too late. I know of one that was pumped up to 700 HP. It would rip the toupee of your head! Very much like a Cobra at about 10% of the current cost.

out of all the replies after the OP, i like this one best.

[Corvette.Jeff]

Of course, going back to the original post, I'm surprised nobody has brought up the social side of the argument- One would definitely need to turn in their "man card" to drive a Del Sol

My del slo is anything but a chick car,

the engine is stock, but i have the windows tinted to 20% and a small sound system, in the very near future im also swapping the front end out for a 2000 civic front, then slamming it on spaced steelies.

[RodneyBad]

My del slo is anything but a chick car,

the engine is stock, but i have the windows tinted to 20% and a small sound system, in the very near future im also swapping the front end out for a 2000 civic front, then slamming it on spaced steelies.

I want to see pics..

Monster Miata, I couldn't fit in one being 6ft3"

Fast and fun Lil cars tho.

[Longbox55]

I want to see pics..

Monster Miata, I couldn't fit in one being 6ft3"

Fast and fun Lil cars tho.

Tell me about it. At 6'4" and 300 pounds, I don't fit in them, either. S2000s are a little bit better, but still tight.

[Corvette.Jeff]

I want to see pics..

Monster Miata, I couldn't fit in one being 6ft3"

Fast and fun Lil cars tho.

Tints not on yet, thats coming next payday.

but ill post pics in the am, btw, i forgot to mention im 6' 6" and still have room to shift in it.