1930s metallic paints

[sjordan2]

Most of us have seen classic cars from the 1930s with killer silver paint jobs, such as a Mercedes 540K and the occasional Rolls-Royce. I recently came upon a discussion about that paint and they said this:

In those days, the metalflake was based on powdered fish scales, and the finish dulled out in just a few years, requiring paint changes or repaints. Does anyone know about the history of what metallic paints were available when? I ask this because over half of what's in my stash is from the pre-war era and this will influence my color choices.

[Scale-Master]

My understanding is the pearls were made from fish scales, not the metallics. I think the metallics were made with fine aluminum and or other metal powders added to the paint. The lack of colored pigment made them less durable.

But if you are using these paints on models, I would not worry too much about them not lasting, unless you plan on exposing them to the elements like a real car.

[Harry P.]

I never knew they even had metalflake paints in the 1930s!

[Art Anderson]

DuPont pioneered metallic lacquer for spraying in 1927--one of the very first cars to be painted with it was the 1928 Miller 91 driven by Louis Meyer (later of Meyer-Drake, manufacturer of the legendary Offenhauser engines). His car was painted gold, which was made by mixing finely ground brass powder in clear nitrocellulose lacquer.

The problem with nitrate lacquer and metallic powder was that this early form of lacquer had very little resistance to UV light, even rain--and it wore away rather quickly. With metallics, that exposed the metallic powders, which then dulled, in addition to creating a rough surface, that no amount of polishing could repair. For that reason, metallic paints, although available pretty much all through the 30's to the 50's, were not all that popular, especially with older car buyers who just could not stand the idea of a repaint after a couple of years.

Pearlescent paints have been around since at least the earlyy 1910's--but were difficult to paint, as all car painting in that era (save for Ford and their black japan enamel) was done by hand, with lots of rubbing and polishing afterward. I've seen a few "survivor" cars from that era that had pearlescent accents hand painted on their bodies--the effect must have been stunning when new.

While early pearl paints were created using ground fish scale, even powdered mussel shells (mussels are "fresh water oysters", found in most of the rivers of the midwest and south--their shells used mostly for buttons for dress clothes for men and women years ago); it wasn't until the use of powdered mica that pearlescent colors became practical and popular.

Art

[CAL]

My understanding is the pearls were made from fish scales, not the metallics. I think the metallics were made with fine aluminum and or other metal powders added to the paint. The lack of colored pigment made them less durable.

But if you are using these paints on models, I would not worry too much about them not lasting, unless you plan on exposing them to the elements like a real car.

Actually it could have been one or the other. Natural pearls were done with a complicated process done from Herring or Sardine scales.

However some pearls were done with metal flakes or metal oxides.

[Agent G]

Aluminum in paint was used as early as 1919-1920 in naval aviation. Aluminum's relative corrosion resistence was necessary in the salt air.

Zinc chromate primers became prevalent in all aviation when the wood and fabric was replaced by steel and aluminum.

As far as autos, well I have no idea. The technology was however there.

G

[CAL]

Ford Motor Company developed Zinc Chromate (which really wasn't a paint or color but rather a chemical raction that just came out yellow). and later lamp black as an indicator to distinguish first coat from second and aluminum past was added as a UV protection which was green also called Zinc Chromate Green which was partly the black but the aluminum accelerated the natural tendancy of Zinc Chromate to age with a green tint.

Edited June 28, 2011 by CAL

[ZIL 111V]

Very, very, good question for "classic" car kit builders...

So painting my 1/10th scale Ideal Toy '34 Duesy SJ or my MPC '32 Imperial... Met Dark Gun metal or Met Dark Bronze would be period correct?

Always tought that metallic colors became a bit more popular (on top notch US prestige cars) from the late 1930's on, we often see late 30's Packards, Caddies, in silver, gold, or metallic colors (mostly dark hues) of burgundy, marine blue, leaf green or bronze to name a few met shades...guess those metallic finihes were a tiny (minority) color options in the 1930's chosen by wealthy buyers.

[sjordan2]

My understanding is the pearls were made from fish scales, not the metallics. I think the metallics were made with fine aluminum and or other metal powders added to the paint. The lack of colored pigment made them less durable.

But if you are using these paints on models, I would not worry too much about them not lasting, unless you plan on exposing them to the elements like a real car.

Not worried about durability, just authenticity. So many of these vintage cars that you see these days have been restored to a condition that is not period-correct.

[Agent G]

Ford Motor Company developed Zinc Chromate (which really wasn't a paint or color but rather a chemical raction that just came out yellow). and later lamp black as an indicator to distinguish first coat from second and aluminum past was added as a UV protection which was green also called Zinc Chromate Green which was partly the black but the aluminum accelerated the natural tendancy of Zinc Chromate to age with a green tint.

Exactly.

Vought produced a salmon tinted zinc chromate which was used on the early F4U-1 Corsair. Imagine the pilots strapping themselves into the pink cockpit of that big fast beast.

G

[Art Anderson]

Aluminum in paint was used as early as 1919-1920 in naval aviation. Aluminum's relative corrosion resistence was necessary in the salt air.

Zinc chromate primers became prevalent in all aviation when the wood and fabric was replaced by steel and aluminum.

As far as autos, well I have no idea. The technology was however there.

G

From Wikipedia: <<<Zinc chromate, ZnCrO4, is a chemical compound containing the chromate anion, appearing as odorless yellow solid powder.[2][3][4]It is used industrially in chromate conversion coatings, having been developed by Ford Motor Company in 1920s>>>

Aluminum powder was added to "aircraft dope" (actually, the same nitrocelluse lacquer I referred to above) used on fabric aircraft covering to "shrink" the linen up taut to cover the airfoil shape of wings, and make fuselages more aerodynamic; in order to protect not only the dope, but also the underlying fabric from UV rays of the sun. Keep in mind that not until the late 1930's did any navy's seagoing aircraft have all metal skins, wings and tail surfaces were still fabric covered. This was very much standard aircraft technology for military aircraft worldwide until the advent of such planes as the Curtiss P-36 Hawk and the Seversky P-35 in the mid-1930's, along with the Boeing B-9 and Martin B-10 bombers (I was just looking at the USAF Museum's Martin B-10B a little more than a week ago).

Another reason for silver (aluminum bearing metallic finish) dope on military aircraft in the "inter-war" years of the 1920's and 30's was simply "flash and dash"--it was bright, captured the public's attention particularly when freshly applied. In US practice however, the Army Air Corps didnt use silver dope on planes at all during those years--most standard was olive drab dope on fabric covered fuselages, with insignia yellow dope on wings and tail surfaces. The US Navy used silver dope on fuselages pretty much, with insignia yellow dope on fabric flying surfaces. Of course, US military trainers used first a blue and yellow paint scheme, followed by all yellow, and finally all silver (but sometimes with yellow wings.

Zinc Chromate, on the other hand came into wide use as an anti-corrosion primer used in all steps of metal aircraft construction almost simultaneously across the world, with the exception of Japanese military aircraft, which were primed on inside and hidden surfaces with clear lacquer that was often tinted either green or blue.

But back to cars: While of course, metallic lacquers were available by the late 1920's, they tended for the most part to be dark colors, blues, greens, maroon, only occasionally silver, and were seldom every as "sparkly" as what is often seen today--the "bronzing powder" (paint industry term for metallic powders used to make metallic paints) of that era were much more finely ground than what is seen today, even those colors used in the 1950's and 1960's on American production cars. Luxury car makers, particularly Mercedes-Benz and BMW used that very finely ground bronzing powder in their metallic lacquers well into the 1970's.

Art

[CAL]

Exactly.

Vought produced a salmon tinted zinc chromate which was used on the early F4U-1 Corsair. Imagine the pilots strapping themselves into the pink cockpit of that big fast beast.

G

that is because the must not have got the memo and used Indian Red rather than Lamp Black.

[Art Anderson]

Very, very, good question for "classic" car kit builders...

So painting my 1/10th scale Ideal Toy '34 Duesy SJ or my MPC '32 Imperial... Met Dark Gun metal or Met Dark Bronze would be period correct?

Always tought that metallic colors became a bit more popular (on top notch US prestige cars) from the late 1930's on, we often see late 30's Packards, Caddies, in silver, gold, or metallic colors (mostly dark hues) of burgundy, marine blue, leaf green or bronze to name a few met shades...guess those metallic finihes were a tiny (minority) color options in the 1930's chosen by wealthy buyers.

While the color palette available to coachbuilders of the "Classic Era" was virtually unlimited (Brewster Body Company of Springfield MA --the Monogram '31 Rolls Royce Roadster and Sport Touring cars are models of Springfield MA Rolls Royces, with Brewster bodies--had literally several hundred different shades of their "Brewster Green" and "Brewster Maroon", each custom-mixed for a particular customer!), the colors seen on those cars when new depended almost entirely on who bought the car, and where they lived. The "Old Money" clientele in cities such as New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, Boston and even Chicago or Detroit tended to be very conservative--they wanted the quality, but not the flashy appearance. On the West Coast, particularly Los Angeles, and certainly in Miami Beach FL, almost the opposite was true--bright, often almost gawdy colors were evidence of the conspicuous consumption of newly rich socialites, movie stars and the like. In addition, a lot depended on the body style--formal sedans, town cars, limousines were almost always dark and conservative (the 1931 Murphy-bodied Duesenberg Beverly was painted in 4 tones of rather bright green for its Auto Salon showings, the 1933 Duesenberg SJ Arlington--AKA "20-Grand", the Pierce Silver Arrow were painted in bright metallic silver, the Silver Arrow being accented with metallic gunmetal with red pinstriping outlining the darker trim color), with a highly visible almost rebellion in the form of Mrs Ethel Mars (of the Mars Candy Company, flush with the profits of the highly popular Snickers candy bar) who had Bohmann & Schwartz of Hollywood create a swoopy, ultramodern town car for her, painted entirely in metallic silver (even her chauffeur wore a metallic silver uniform!), but those were exceptions. Actor Gary Cooper drove a 1931 Duesenberg Model J Tourster, bodied by Derham out of Philadelphia, painted a bright green with bright yellow fenders and splash aprons (the Tourster was a dual windshield phaeton), and Clark Gable owned a bright white Rollston Dusenberg SJN convertible coupe. Actress and arguably the top of the A list Joan Crawford had her 1933 Cadillac V16 Fleetwood Town Car painted white--she'd have been the talk of all the gossips in the New York City 400, but her car stayed in and around Los Angeles.

Mass production cars sort of followed this same pattern: While Ford, Chevrolet and others offered bright colors from about 1928 onward, particularly on roadsters, most of those got sold either in the sun belt or out on the West Coast.

In any event, however, pigments used in automotive paints back then were anything but stable--about the only color that would not fade in the sun was black, carbon black being the principle black pigment back then. It wasn't until the early 1980's that UV-blocking carriers were available for general use. So, with that in mind, the more somber, darker colors tended to be the most popular across the board.

Art

[sjordan2]

One reason I asked this question was to determine a proper paint scheme for the kit below, a 1937 Phantom III with Freestone & Webb coachwork. I don't like the gold and was thinking about two shades of gunmetal, as I've seen on the later Silver Wraith. This particular car on which the kit is based belonged for many years to a San Antonio aircraft designer, Ed Swearingen, and is now in the Toyota Museum in Japan. I have no idea if this was the original color or not. Kind of gaudy and, as Art suggested, seems to reflect more American tastes. Black and silver would be more commonplace, but there are tons with that color scheme. Also, showing visible wire wheels was not common in England at the time (or so my Brit friends tell me), so I'm going to put on painted wheel disks (dust covers).

Edited June 28, 2011 by sjordan2

[Agent G]

That is a gorgeous car.

G

[sjordan2]

That is a gorgeous car.

G

There are precious few pictures of this car, maybe 8, and none of the interior or mechanicals. If anyone wants my reference material (which is pretty large on all Phantom IIIs), please contact me.

[Customman]

"The problem with Nitrocellulose Lacquer", and later on Alkyde Enamel wasn't that great either. It faded and wore from the weather just like the rest of them Acrylic Lacquer,and Acrylic Enamel. That's one of the reasons why they developed Urethanes / Base Coat Clear Coat, the acid rain was eating up the paint. It was bad here in Pennsylvania coal fired electric power plants was the new craze. And oh yeah Ultra Violet rays really fade paint bad no doubt.In the '50's metallic paints started to pic up, the '60's they were hot and '70's and on to the present. In the begining all of the car manufacturers used Nitro Lacquer they brushed the Nitrocellulose on and hand compounded them. One of my mentors did a ton of old Car restorations and I did my fair share working with him.

Pearls,(Fish Scales,Oysters and Mussels) started getting hot back in the Hot Rod days('40's, '50's) and got real hot in the '60's. The federal government outlawed using the fish scales, oyster, and mussel shells in I believe the early '70,s and hence came the synthetic Pearls as we know them today. I also did custom paint and bodywork in a Custom Shop. The guy I worked for bench mixed his own custom colors from concentrates and toners. Pearls really can't be practical popular yes. All I can say is it's a good thing they never used Pearls or Candys before they came out with Urethanes because you can't match old school Pearls very well.

George

[Jean B.]

Hi there, seems I'm a little late for this discussion, but I've just found this conversation.  The topic of "effect paintings for 1930s car models" is indeed my very special subject!  As the former contributors already said, bright, light and cool-toned paintings on nitro base appeared already in the late 1920s, and some coachbuilders of the 1930s, leading Figoni and Erdmann & Rossi, were famous for using extravagant and bright paintings for their one-off luxury creations.  Fish-silver was not so very long in use, it was already in the 1930s that aluminium-based paints got common - both (as already described) very sensitive against weathering.  The problem was, that clear nitro-paints were very yellowish-brownish, so that the the "open" metallic-paint surfaces could not be covered without spoiling the basic colour. 

For my model-building purposes I usually use following method: Painting with a (mostly matte) colour of my choice (I prefer Humbrol enamel paints), then air-brushing a mixture of AlClad-II "light sheen" with some Iriodine pearlescent powder mixed into.  This is the very finest pearlescent pigment available, it's almost colourless (tending to "white", not silver), and airbrushed thin over a basic colour, it gives a very smooth "icing" which comes very close to the classic "fish-silver" paintings.  Either leaving this coating alone (it's "soft-glossy") or covering it with a glossy nitro-varnish, a very authentic finish can be achieved, especially for small scales like 1/43. 

A couple of years ago a (German) book was published, written by the worldwide expert for vintage car-paints, Mrs Gundula Tutt.  The book is exquisitely written and layouted, and you can learn very, very much about the painting methods of classic cars.  Title of the book is "Kutschenlack, Asphaltschwarz und Nitroglanz". 

[Brian Austin]

I don't recall the term coming up in the discussion, but the old metallic paints were referred to as "polychromatic", often abbreviated to "poly" in paint charts.

 

This link shows a range of "polychromatic" paints as used by various auto manufacturers through the '30s.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?x=0&y=0&comm=poly&rows=50

 

This digital example is from my files.  I've seen these old charts on eBay from time to time.  Note the "Poly" labels.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Brian Austin

[Force]

The "Poly" name stayed well into the 90's (at least with some manufacturers) and the difference with the old metallics and new metallics is the old ones was one stage paint where you not had to use clear as the paint itself dried with a gloss finish, the newer Metallics are two stage where the metallic paint itself dries dead matte and you have to lay clear coats over it to get the correct shade of the paint and get it gloss, like the paints available to us today.

[gwright]

On 6/28/2011 at 9:32 AM, sjordan2 said:

I was Ed's stepson. The Phantom III was not originally this color, and I’d be guessing to suggest it was black. I agree, the gold is funky. Even by ‘70s standards, I felt that way as a kid. He had a full-time mechanic named Aggie who worked in our 6-port garage attached to the house, as a full-time job. Ed would come home from the airport everyday and inspect Aggie's work, often agitated, lol. Man, we’d get an earful at dinner. I’m certain Aggie did a great job; his boss was an insufferable perfectionist. Every nut and bolt was treated like a holy relic; often improved upon. As a kid — and former avid modeler — I should get the model! Amazing what can be found on the web. Take care, Mr. Jordan. -G. Wright

One reason I asked this question was to determine a proper paint scheme for the kit below, a 1937 Phantom III with Freestone & Webb coachwork. I don't like the gold and was thinking about two shades of gunmetal, as I've seen on the later Silver Wraith. This particular car on which the kit is based belonged for many years to a San Antonio aircraft designer, Ed Swearingen, and is now in the Toyota Museum in Japan. I have no idea if this was the original color or not. Kind of gaudy and, as Art suggested, seems to reflect more American tastes. Black and silver would be more commonplace, but there are tons with that color scheme. Also, showing visible wire wheels was not common in England at the time (or so my Brit friends tell me), so I'm going to put on painted wheel disks (dust covers).

 

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