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Brand New 65 Mustangs

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Posted (edited) · Report post

http://autos.yahoo.c...65-mustang.html Well, looks like people can buy a brand new Black Sunshine now. I guess this is good because I have seen people charge $10,000 for cars that you could throw a cat through...with useless suspensions and destroyed interiors to boot. Edited by Skydime

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Posted · Report post

http://autos.yahoo.c...65-mustang.html Well, looks like people can buy a brand new Black Sunshine now. I guess this is good because I have seen people charge $10,000 for cars that you could throw a cat through...with useless suspensions and destroyed interiors to boot.

Yep, the suspension part is right on ! Course too, add to the fact that body quality was kinda sorry too. Look , I worked on them when they were new too. My 53 Ford has already outlasted a few of them ....................... Ed Shaver

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Posted · Report post

that's $15k for just a new body shell. you want a complete car? add easily another $15k

Exactly, and look how much you would have to pay for lesser quality cars elsewhere. No evilbay hacked up bondo jobs here.

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That's for the CAB, not the front fenders or the hood, Or the glass, or the wireing,yadda yadda yadda. It's THE way to go if you gonna restore a rusted out body, but all the little things, nuts,bolts, etc. are the REAL cost killers! If you have a ate up body an can use all the trim, chrome, interior(another 10 G ifyou gonna go all optioned out)from, you can save alot. But to build the WHOLE CAR from them will cost you a pretty penny. Better off haveing a reputable specialty shop build it for you, at least it'll be done right, even if it does cost you the family jewels! :lol:;)

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Posted · Report post

That's still not bad, and I would buy one of those before anything else that's out now, and it includes Mercedes, BWM, Porsche, etc . . . I hope the trend continues and they will bring out some other models.

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the problem i have with these new "shells" is the whole re-bodying issue. now it's possible for someone to take a VIN from a total loss vehicle that was not salvageable and build a "new" car from one of the Dynacorn bodies and then sell that car or truck as something it's not.

as cool as the Dynacorn bodies are, i hate them at the same time.

heard the same with the Chevelle and Camaro bodies when released. Is it really any different that replacing virtually every body panel on the car with aftermarket panels?

Seen a local start with his totaled LS6. The only part of the body original was the firewall! he documented it all and showed it at the time of sale and that car brought top dollar and is in a very famous persons collection right now!

Too many people getting too anal worrying about clones! Which is one does due diligence can be easily recognized!

What their real worry is it will lower the now over inflated prices they have been enjoying on these old cars a lot of us used up and threw away back in the day! :lol:

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Posted · Report post

This has been happening for a few years- I still can't see why people still get worked up about it. Most of the '32 Fords you see at shows nowadays are 100% aftermarket (ie, not 1932, not Ford), and nobody bats an eyelash.

Muscle car guys really confuse me sometimes- I don't see an issue with 'cloning' a rare model or variant, as long as you aren't trying to pass it off as a legit piece. A former co-worker of mine has a 'fake' '69 Cougar Eliminator. The second-most frequent question he gets about it (right after 'What year is that Charger'. <_< ), is 'Is that a 'real' Eliminator?' He's the first guy to tell you that no, it is not a 'real' Eliminator, and yet there it is in the parking lot, real as any Eliminator I've ever seen. I've seen people get good and offended when they realize it didn't roll off the assembly line as an Eliminator, even though they had no idea until they asked him. Does it really matter? He can drive it all summer long, leave it in an Advance Auto Parts parking lot (where it's been hit more than once) and take it to the Pure Stock Drags with no fear of ruining a real Eliminator. I'm with Dave- I'd much rather have a 'fake' that I can actually enjoy as a vehicle than a valuable piece of garage jewelery.

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Chuck, I agree that there are other cars done like this out there and that this is pretty normal. Even though I am, by far, NOT a Mustang fan, I do think that it is cool that there is now a high quality full body available for someone to build a 65 convertible.

As far as trying to past it for the real thing, I do agree that people probably will try. But there are going to people that make something negative out of everything in this life.

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Posted · Report post

So a rusted out or badly wrecked headed to the crusher car looses it's VIN to a new jig-welded replacement shell, whats the problem?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Craig, the biggest concern with this is that there are people will try to pass off a car made in modern times as the original model, which is worth far more. As I said, there are going to be people that try to ruin anything by abuse of priveledges created. But, I do see exactly what you mean by your point. But then again, that is highly illegal.

Edited by Skydime

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'Is that a 'real' Eliminator?' He's the first guy to tell you that no, it is not a 'real' Eliminator, and yet there it is in the parking lot, real as any Eliminator I've ever seen. I've seen people get good and offended when they realize it didn't roll off the assembly line as an Eliminator, even though they had no idea until they asked him. Does it really matter?

From my own experience as the builder of my Cobra; the most insulting thing is the clown that rolls up and asks 'Is that real?' It sits there gleaming, pulsing and throbbing. I say 'I built it'. Often without word, expression or any acknowledgment they close the window and drive away. I wonder; 'If it were original, what would the reaction have been?'

Of course, being immature, I launch past said clown at 4000 and leave in a blast of smoke, a wall of noise and am instantly in the next zip code.

I fail to see how it could elicit no reaction. Call me names, tell me you hate it and I'd feel better than asking in the first place and then being indifferent.

And no, I didn't build it for people's reaction-I built it for my satisfaction. I'd just rather they didn't ask the dumb question-or any for that matter. :angry:

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Posted · Report post

Why was the body shell shown at SEMA with the hood and front fenders, when they aren't part of the package?

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It's a car lost or a car saved, is changing a body really any different than changing the floor pan, quarter panels, wheelhouses, doors, ect?

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you could argue the fact that it's not original till the cows come home. that "original" car, be it a Mustang, MG, Firebird or Camaro or any number of thirties cars came down the line with absolutely no rustproofing and any number of flaws overlooked in the initial build in the interest of getting it off the line and onto the showroom floor. any number of professionally restored cars or pro-built rods out there are hiding rust that didn't pose a problem ten or fifteen years ago, but inevitably is eating it's way through to the surface.

i'd rather forfeit a VIN to make a brand new, jig-welded car from the ground up MY way. a strong 5.0 with EFI, AOD, disc brakes and a 9 inch rear, with built in a/c.... yeah, i'd pay 30g for that compared to ANYTHING available on the showroom floor today.

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It's a car lost or a car saved, is changing a body really any different than changing the floor pan, quarter panels, wheelhouses, doors, ect?

Legally, yes. There may be a legal way around it if most of the car is the original but, I'm sure it varies state to state. But the point is, the cabin is the actual car itself. Everything major attaches to it or something attached to it.

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From my own experience as the builder of my Cobra; the most insulting thing is the clown that rolls up and asks 'Is that real?' It sits there gleaming, pulsing and throbbing. I say 'I built it'. Often without word, expression or any acknowledgment they close the window and drive away. I wonder; 'If it were original, what would the reaction have been?'

Of course, being immature, I launch past said clown at 4000 and leave in a blast of smoke, a wall of noise and am instantly in the next zip code.

I fail to see how it could elicit no reaction. Call me names, tell me you hate it and I'd feel better than asking in the first place and then being indifferent.

And no, I didn't build it for people's reaction-I built it for my satisfaction. I'd just rather they didn't ask the dumb question-or any for that matter. :angry:

This guy's favorite reaction to 'is that real'? was "Well, walk out there and touch it..." I always used to tell him "Tell them you'll park it on the guy's foot and then ask him if he thinks its real". :lol:

I think Craig put it pretty well- yeah, it's a big change, but is replacing a body much different than replacing an entire floor? Really, if your '67 Mustang is nothing a roof with just enough metal left to keep said roof a few feet above the ground, why bother piecing the thing back together when you can replace the entire body? "I want to keep it original". Okay, fine, but 1- your Mustang didn't leave the factory with replacement quarters, rockers, decklid, and doors from aftermarket manufacturers or three other Mustangs. How's that original? 2- While I do think that keeping a car 'original' has merit, that's really best suited for a car that's pretty well-preserved in the first place. If your project is at the point where you need to replace the entire body, keeping it 'original' probably isn't the best way to approach the project.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

you could argue the fact that it's not original till the cows come home. that "original" car, be it a Mustang, MG, Firebird or Camaro or any number of thirties cars came down the line with absolutely no rustproofing and any number of flaws overlooked in the initial build in the interest of getting it off the line and onto the showroom floor. any number of professionally restored cars or pro-built rods out there are hiding rust that didn't pose a problem ten or fifteen years ago, but inevitably is eating it's way through to the surface.

i'd rather forfeit a VIN to make a brand new, jig-welded car from the ground up MY way. a strong 5.0 with EFI, AOD, disc brakes and a 9 inch rear, with built in a/c.... yeah, i'd pay 30g for that compared to ANYTHING available on the showroom floor today.

I guess this is all a matter of how you look at things. If you are looking for a collector item and you have the money, by all means, completely rebuild an original or purchase on that has been completely restored. But if you are looking for a project and don't have $100K to sink into it, this is a good way to go.

My train of thought when posting this was just how many ways one could go without worrying about destroying an original car. You can build it just like an original, you can add just a few subtle touches to it, or, you could go the route I was thinking and build a pure pro touring car (IE drag car, full custom). As a matter of fact, there was a build of a kit on here that I though of when posting this. I just can't remember the person building Rob Zombie's "Black Sunshine" to give them credit.

Edited by Skydime

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People have been building clones and outright fakes and trying to pass them off as "real" for a long time. The availability of these bodies doesn't change things much. As long as there are aftermarket replacement parts, people will continue to try and rip off other people. It's human nature... :(

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You know, it seems like doing something like this should be considered legal. If you can provide documented proof that it is a new body rather than one from an existing vehicle, then it should be fine to use the old VIN tags.

On topic though, I think that it's great that companies are starting to offer new steel bodies for vintage cars. Companies have been making fiberglass tubs for Jeeps, Broncos, and Scouts for years. Sure if the original body is clean enough to simply weld in panels, it's all good. However if the body is filled with rot, then it would be simpler to just get a brand new body (especially one that's built better than the original).

There's also the fact that people can build their own chassis for the body if they so choose, and I believe in many states it could be registered as a kit car. Of course, not sure how insurance would work for that.

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Posted · Report post

the problem i have with these new "shells" is the whole re-bodying issue. now it's possible for someone to take a VIN from a total loss vehicle that was not salvageable and build a "new" car from one of the Dynacorn bodies and then sell that car or truck as something it's not.

as cool as the Dynacorn bodies are, i hate them at the same time.

Dave, everything on a car is a service item. Frames, body shells and driveline parts can all be swapped out. I work in insurance claims. Why would I buy a rusted out used body on a roll over and rebuild that when I could get a new shell without the issues? I personally don't see the problem. There are more '32 Ford roadsters on the road now than Henry ever made.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Jordan. Had a friend with a 69 Z28 rust bucket. The cowl was rotted really bad at the mounting points and the pasenger side dash area. He bought a donor Camaro shell, virtually rust free but was reluctant to do any real swaps.

He finally loaded his car on a teailer and went to the DMV and inquired what to do.

The guy that does vehicle inspections for new registration took a marker and outlined about 4 inches around the vin tag down the front of the cowl and across to where the hidden vin was on the passenger side of the car. Said cut it out there and do the same to the donor. Weld the donor cowl "parts" to the savable part of your cowl (what I marked out and it is perfectly legal as long as the same section cut out of the donor is sent to the crusher with the rest of the disgarded original parts!

Remember folks when the parts are manufactured until that vin is stamped in and the tag is affixed they were both the same car!

For real. How many are really out there today, even high dollar cars that have 100% of the parts they rolled off the asembly line with?

Edited by Johnny

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Here's a place where you can buy a completely finished, brand new "55 Chevy."

http://www.1955chevy...ody_options.htm

No, No, No. Harry, Those are all pictures of Virgil's unfinished kits that were stolen and put on another website. They knew how real his 55's look so, they just went for it. :lol: JK...but his do look realistic.

Edited by Skydime

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Posted · Report post

Craig, the biggest concern with this is that there are people will try to pass off a car made in modern times as the original model, which is worth far more. As I said, there are going to be people that try to ruin anything by abuse of priveledges created. But, I do see exactly what you mean by your point. But then again, that is highly illegal.

Craig, if on an insurance claim, a tree falls on a 1955 Chevy pick up and destroys the cab and doors. The serial number is riveted to the 'A' pillar. Does it matter if I repair it with a new cab and doors or used originals? When it's fixed and back on the road, will it be 'less' than what it was? Or better?

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Just to muddy the waters further- there are places that will make you a reproduction VIN tag. Theoretically, if you had nothing more than a clean title with a good VIN, you could make a brand-new 19XX fill-in-the-blank appear out of thin air. (Giant stack of cash would help, though.) And people do swap VIN tags all the time, even though I'm about 90% sure that's illegal under most circumstances.

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