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Ford DOHC engine: what kits?

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Posted · Report post

I didn't want to hijack the engines thread, but I saw a pic of the DOHC there. It seems like back in the '60s I had a kit of a Lotus F1 that had that engine in it, and maybe some other kit. Anybody know where to find that engine?

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Posted · Report post

would that be the 429?

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Posted · Report post

I really don't know. Was there more than one? Here is the pic from the other thread:

m5lp_1003_73_o+50_coyote_engine+name_game.jpg

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Not sure if that's a Gurney-Weslake engine (or just the cylinder heads), but f the MPC Gurney Olsonite Eagle kit should have something very close:

802-170olsoniteeagle-sealed.JPG

Edited by Casey

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Posted · Report post

The Ford DOHC V8 you are talking about was based on the 260cid small block V8 that first appeared in the 1962 Ford Fairlane, as a 221cid OHV engine. It was modified, yet still an overhead valve pushrod engine, poked out to 255cid (4.2 liter) for use at Indianapolis in 1963, powering 3 cars from Lotus Cars of England--two cars, one each for 1962 World F1 Champion Jim Clark and noted American Driver Dan Gurney (who convinced first Colin Chapman of Lotus to build cars for Indianapolis (Gurney drove the first modern rear engine race car to qualify for Indy, the 1962 Johh Croswaith Buick-powered car campaigned there by Mickey Thompson), and who also persuaded Ford Motor Company to provide racing V8 engines for the project. These Lotus Fords were depicted, sort of, in model kit form by both IMC (Industro-Motive Corporation) and AMT Corporation, both race cars released in May 1964. In 1963, Clark qualified on Pole Day, while Gurney was caught by a gust of wind and hit the wall in the South Short Chute (the short straightway-660 ft, between turns one and two at IMS), so had to wait until Sunday the 2nd day of qualifications while the "Mule" or practice car was prepared with full racing setups, including the severely offset suspension system). In the 1963 Indianapolis 500, Clark finished a somewhat distant second place to Parnelli Jones (whose car was kitted by AMT for 1964) driving a conventional Watson roadster powered by a 255cid Offenhauser; in what is one of the most controversial finishes in all of Indianapolis 500 mile race history.

For 1964, Ford engineers created a race engine specific block, still based on the 221/260/289/302 block, but with 7 oil pumps and a pair of dual overhead cam cylinder heads, with centerline intakes for a custom-designed Hilborn Fuel Injection system. For this effort, Ford's engineers reached all the way back to 1932, and a Harry A Miller 4-cam V8 having that same basic induction setup (in fact, FOMOCO rented one of the 3 existing Miller V8 engines that resides in a museum in Frankfort Indiana for study!). This became the legendary 4-cam Ford Indy V8, which ran wild in 1965-67, with Clark winning the 500 in 1965, rookie Mario Andretti setting the racing world on its ear that year--and setting 1 and 4 lap records for the pole in 1966; Graham Hill winning in 1966, and AJ Foyt in 1967. For 1968 and all the way out to 1977, the Ford 4-cam was reduced to first 168cid for turbocharging, finally winding up at 151cid when AJ Foyt won his record-setting 4th Indianapolis 500 in 1977. At the end of the 1969 USAC season, Ford decided to back out of direct manufacture of Indy engines, and sold the engine, all rights and tooling to Foyt, and the engines thereafter became known as Foyt 4 cam V8 engines.

The first Ford GT-40's of 1964 were designed around this engine, but quickly the pushrod version came back, ultimately replaced by Holman & Moody-built 427 Nascar style engines by 1966 and 67 for LeMans and other long distance endurance races.

to hear one of these 4-cam engines run at full song is to hear fine music for the ears--a shrill scream from the exhaust horns is a sound to be treasured as they reached nearly 10,000rpm by the end of the backstretch at Indiananapos (5/8 mile straight).

Art

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Posted · Report post

Not sure if that's a Gurney-Weslake engine (or just the cylinder heads), but f the MPC Gurney Olsonite Eagle kit should have something very close:

802-170olsoniteeagle-sealed.JPG

Casey,

For Indianapolis and the USAC Championship Trail in 1968, Dan Gurney's All American Racers campaigned two cars, one with 255cid Ford 4-cam power, and for Dan "Stock it to 'em Dan" Gurney, a more conventional pushrod block with with Weslake heads (not to be confused with the 1966-67 Gurney Weslake V12 F1 engines. For the 1968 Indianapolis 500, Dan Gurney drove the Ford Weslake powered Eagle shown on your box art, New Zealander Denis Hulme drove the 4-cam Ford powered car. Both cars were sponsored by Oswald "Ozzie" Olson, principal owner of Olsonite, maker of plastic composite toilet seats (Olsonite Eagle, the fastest toilet seats in the World!), along with Jorgensen Steel and a couple of specialty aluminum companies. One of the associate sponsors (very small decal on the side of the tub, not depicted in the MPC kit)? None other than Mattel Hot Wheels!

Art

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Posted · Report post

Wow, Art! That's all, just......WOW!

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Posted · Report post

Thanks Art! Was the 4 cam Ford used in a Lotus bodied Indy car in that '65-67 time frame? I remember the kit I had as a Lotus, painted BRG, yellow accents, and the spaghetti exhaust on top. It would be fun to have a couple of those engines to play with.

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Posted · Report post

I believe there is a dohc ford engine in the reissued Tiger shark. There was one in the original issue of the Dream Rod.

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Posted · Report post

Thanks Art! Was the 4 cam Ford used in a Lotus bodied Indy car in that '65-67 time frame? I remember the kit I had as a Lotus, painted BRG, yellow accents, and the spaghetti exhaust on top. It would be fun to have a couple of those engines to play with.

That sounds like you are describing Jim Clark's 1965 Indy winning Lotus-Ford. Google an image.

Great info, as usual, Art!

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Posted (edited) · Report post

basher

here's quote from wikipedia for windsors

fit's in with WHY Ford went racing.

'The Ford "Windsor" motor family is considered by performance enthusiasts to be one of the greatest[1] and most successful[2] engines produced by the Ford Motor Company. Introduced in 1962 as part of Ford's "Total Performance" era,[3] the Ford Windsor design succeeded the Ford Y-block engine family, rendering the latter obsolete for performance purposes.[4]'

plus Edsel Ford was at the helm of Ford and he wanted Ford to go racing.

here's pics of Jim Clarke being Jim Clarke.

Have A Nice Day!

basher

want a rebuilt 392 with core engine and 5 T 18 tranny's?

post-8967-0-15860900-1329127091_thumb.jp

post-8967-0-45407700-1329127164_thumb.jp

Edited by regular guy

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Posted · Report post

The Ford DOHC engines also found their way into the CanAm series in both '66 with Parnelli Jones driving a Lola T-70 and '68 with Mario Andretti also in a Lola T-70.

Both the Ford GT and GT MkII from IMC and the MkII's repop by Union have the DOHC engins in'em.

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basher

here's quote from wikipedia for windsors

fit's in with WHY Ford went racing.

'The Ford "Windsor" motor family is considered by performance enthusiasts to be one of the greatest[1] and most successful[2] engines produced by the Ford Motor Company. Introduced in 1962 as part of Ford's "Total Performance" era,[3] the Ford Windsor design succeeded the Ford Y-block engine family, rendering the latter obsolete for performance purposes.[4]'

plus Edsel Ford was at the helm of Ford and he wanted Ford to go racing.

here's pics of Jim Clarke being Jim Clarke.

Have A Nice Day!

basher

want a rebuilt 392 with core engine and 5 T 18 tranny's?

Edsel Ford died in 1943.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

mr anderson

just like 'The Matrix' in the subway scene climax of the movie.

quote from book in pic.

'In 1962, when he was 35, it was Lee Iacocca's dream for Ford to dominate world motorsports.'

under Henry Ford II.

there's Jim Clark on cover.

Have A Nice Day!

post-8967-0-93272100-1329182131_thumb.jp

Edited by regular guy

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Posted · Report post

Foyt as well as Andretti and a few others ran the DOHC in sprint cars.

ajfoyt.jpg

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Posted · Report post

Hoo-whee! I bet those sprinters would haul the mail! That is cool!

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Posted · Report post

Only a couple sprint cars ran the 255 Ford, AJ Watson's car and Gary Bettenhausen's. Champ Dirt Cars were another story, a ton of guys ran them into the late 70's. The picture of AJ Foyt is in a champ dirt car, not a sprint car. Some kits that have the 255 motor are : IMC Lotus, Testors Lotus, and the Eagle kits of Gurney's cars, that I know of. AJ Foyt also did so much work with this engine, that the ones he did were called Foyts.He even had valve covers that said FOYT on them.

Also know that the motor Clark won Indy with was not the same motor he used in F-1. In 1967( I think) Ford came out with their other DOHC motor, the Cosworth.

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Posted · Report post

You can also find one in the Old Jim Clark Lotus Indy Car kit that came from the Testors Fabulous Ford Series. It looks a little small. This think there was also one in an older GT40 Kit. Perhaps the IMC kit. I might be wrong about that one.

In other 1:1 cars Ernie Emmersons 2X AMBR winning track nose T had one with the heads reversed to turn the exhaust down. There was also a FED with TWO of them. That would be fun to replicate!

Scott

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Posted · Report post

Your'e right Christopher, cant believe I got that wrong!

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Posted · Report post

Thanks Art! Was the 4 cam Ford used in a Lotus bodied Indy car in that '65-67 time frame? I remember the kit I had as a Lotus, painted BRG, yellow accents, and the spaghetti exhaust on top. It would be fun to have a couple of those engines to play with.

Hugh, every Team Lotus car (save for the star-crossed 1968 Lotus 56 wedge-bodied STP turbine powered cars) entered at Indianapolis was Ford-powered, from the 1963 Lotus 29 which ran a 255cid Ford small block to Mario Andretti's ill-fated 1969 STP Gas Treatment Lotus 4wd. From 1964 (Lotus 34) to the 1965-66 Lotus 38, the chassis were designed around the 4-cam 255cid Ford V8 engine. The 1967 STP Lotus entries were to have been powered by a 255cid version of the BRM H-16 (essentially two "Flat-Eight" engines mounted one atop the other, and geared together into a 16-cyl powerplant). However, the BRM engines never materialized, and 2 of the 3 cars entered were hastily modified to accept the 4-cam Ford V8, which combination was not even remotely successful.

In addition to the Lotus cars, 4-cam Fords powered numerous other cars in the 1964 Indianapolis 500, including the Halibrand Shrike and the Mickey Thompson Harvey Aluminum cars in which Eddie Sachs and Dave McDonald lost their lives that race day. For 1965, 4-cam Fords powered fully half the field at Indianapolis, even a Watson Roadster was fitted with one, but was unable to reach qualifying speeds. Mario Andretti began his IMS career running 4-cam Fords; as did Al Unser Sr.

Art

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Foyt as well as Andretti and a few others ran the DOHC in sprint cars.

ajfoyt.jpg

Not a sprint car, but Foyt's full-sized USAC Championhip Dirt Car (Indy legal car, but designed for running dirt. No USAC sprint cars that I ever heard of ran the 4-cam Ford back then, given that USAC's engine formula specified just 220cid for an overhead cam racing engine. Parnelli Jones also ran a USAC Dirt Champ car powered by the 4-cam Ford V8.

This chassis has a USAC Champ Car required 96" wheelbase, where a USAC (and in the era of this car, USAC was the dominant Sprint Car sanctioning body, being the only truly nationwide series in those days) Sprint Car used an 84" (seven feet) wheelbase (to put this in perspective, the Kurtis Midget as released by Revell, was built on a 72" --six feet-- wheelbase in those years).

This particular car was an AJ Watson design, with other similar cars, also powered by Ford being driven by Parnelli Jones, Mario Andretti and several others. By the 1960's, USAC's dirt tracks were fewer and fewer, people seemed to want (as did a lot of car owners) more races on paved ovals, and most of the formerly dirt mile oval tracks on USAC's circuit got paved over. By the late 1960's, only the Indiana State Fairgrounds track, and similar mile tracks at DuQuoin and Springfield IL remained on the circuit--in fact, this very car, in Sheraton-Thompson colors and Offenhauser power, won the 1965 Duquoin 100 miler, then due to a road accident that prevented Foyt's then-new Lotus Ford from arriving in Milwaukee for the Labor Day 100 miler, got set up with pavement tires, went out, won the pole, and lead virtually the entire race until a rear tire blistered, requiring a last minute pit stop. The Ford 4cam was installed I believe, in 1968.

Art

Edited by Art Anderson

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mr anderson

just like 'The Matrix' in the subway scene climax of the movie.

quote from book in pic.

'In 1962, when he was 35, it was Lee Iacocca's dream for Ford to dominate world motorsports.'

under Henry Ford II.

there's Jim Clark on cover.

Have A Nice Day!

The Leo Levine book, "Ford, the Dust And The Glory" which was published in the 1960's makes little if any mention of Lee Iacocca in regard to racing. Levine writes of the impetus for Ford going all out in racing in the 1960's came from none other than the man in the penthouse offce: Henry Ford II. of course, somebody had to trigger that passion, and by most accounts, the person was none other than Dan Gurney, who brought Colin Chapman together with Ford Motor Company, to provide engines for Lotus for that first effort at Indianapolis in 1963 (of course, Ford had already begun the "Total Performance" push, with Falcons entered in the Monte Carlo Rally, and a return of full sized Fords to Nascar and the dragstrips).

At the time, Lee Iacocca was a sales/marketing guy, who was about to spring the ultimate stealth surprise on the others in the Big Three, the Mustang, which was aimed squarely at the leading edge of the Baby Boom Generation, who were reaching 18 in 1964, and as a group, were amazingly flush with money to buy at least a low-priced new car. It was in 1962-1963 that Ford Motor Company, at the behest of HFII (then the President and Chairman of Fomoco (Ford Family, then as now, held the controlling interest in the company Henry The Deuce's grandfather started), and when they were rebuffed, HF-II set in motion the process that resulted in a string of Ford-GT's, and back-to-back victories at LeMans 1966 and 1967 for Ford Motor Company, all the while backing to some extent, Shelby American, Holman & Moody, Bud Moore and a huge assault on Indianapolis and the USAC Championship Trail.

Art

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Posted · Report post

Here are 2 photos of the only DOHC sprint cars I saw run. The white 2 with Foyt in it at Terre Haute. This is AJ Watson's car. I saw Foyt cut a motor in half in this one at Terre Haute in 68 , I think. He threw a rod and never lifted. Look on the internet for Mike Mosley's crash in this car at Dayton, Almost killed Mosley, and it did kill the car.

The 24 car is Gary Bettenhausen. Willie Davis ran the car with Gary as the driver, This car didn't run a lot with the ford in it.

post-7529-0-19712100-1329266891_thumb.jp

post-7529-0-09999400-1329266913_thumb.jp

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