Harry P. Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I think it is more like saying, "Ok, I like ice cream, can anyone explain to me how someone could possibly like ice cream that has been dropped on the floor, stepped on, put back in the bowl, left out for days collecting dirt, dog hair, flies and who knows what else?" If you take an old barn find with a worn patina, get the engine running, throw some cool tires and rims on it, that's cool. When cars are purposely built to look like junk just for the "shock" factor, that I hate. Foose is building these type of cars now, and even uses technics to make fresh paint look old, worn and patina like, dumb. Steve Dumb to you... not so dumb to others. It's all nothing more than personal taste. I'm sure there are people out there who think that what you like is dumb. So it goes. We all have opinions, there's no right or wrong... just personal preferences. as a matter of fact, i cannot understand why anyone would be differnt than me. Exactly. Well said (and sarcasm noted!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjim Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'm probably going to get hate mail after this posting. Oh well. The rat rods of today are carefully executed creations and NOT the "let's throw some parts together and drive" of years ago. The more outlandish a creation becomes, the better some people like it. I have to admit that I like some of these "rat rods" and I can appreciate the thought process that goes into them. I still like the rat rod I saw with the Evinrude outboard motor air scoop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnny Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 If I have to explain the rat-rod "thing", there is no way you will understand are you a politician or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjim Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I have a Harley shirt like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 What does what you just posted have to do with the topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) I think someone kinda needs to talk a little about the history of the PHILOSOPHY of hot-rodding. In the beginning, it was about going FAST, pure and simple. Fenders came off of cars because they were heavy, and slowed you down. Bigger engines from junkyards went into light cars to go faster. Engine mods were developed to go faster. Tops were chopped to lessen wind-resistance, to go faster. The big-and-little tire thing evolved as lakes guys experimented with different rear tire diameters to effectively change gearing, and to get their engines running in the sweet spot, to go FASTER. And a lot of the mods on hot rods trickled down from track-racing cars, and made the cars handle and stop better. So, being about going faster, performing BETTER, a REAL early rodder would spend his coin on cams and heads and machine work and gears and on and on, and the shiny paint was pretty far down the list of must-haves. Guys WANTED pretty shiny cars, but paint jobs cost proportionately what they cost today, and choices got made. It DIDN'T start out as any kind of rebellion, but it morphed into that because the fast old beaters were seen as threatening and perceived as being unsafe by Joe Average and his wifey, and the followers took up the torch, not really even getting why it was cool. There was a group of hangers-on, pretenders, "squirrels" driving "shot rods" that just didn't get the safe speed thing at all, and they made nasty heaps with what they thought were cool parts....coon tails and dummy spots and fake exhausts and moon-disc wheel covers on cars that would never get within 100 miles of the dry-lakes (where actual knowledge and mechanical ability and craftsmanship mattered). They drove like idiots and gave the movement a bad name. A lot of those cars got lowered by torching springs, and used absurdly long shackles, and many were indeed death traps. NOT real hot-rods. I currently work with a shop that builds "traditional" hot-rods, some from real hard-to-get old stuff, just like in 1949, and some from catalogs. These things cost from $50,000 to well over $150,000, and to me they kinda miss the mark, because REAL hot rods are built by their owners, from scrounged or junked parts. The more traditional cars, or more "retro" are nothing more than a rebellion by a faction of the car culture against the mega-money billet-encrusted trailer-queens that went so absurdly far the other way. Traditional cars have been built quietly for as long as there have been rods, but they've become more hip and fashionable lately partly because of the rat-rod's spectacular visibility. And to me, the whole rat-rod thing, though I do actually like some of them, is an offshoot of the "squirrels" of the '50s who didn't really get it, but wanted to play anyway. The suede paint thing is an example. Guys in the beginning WANTED SHINY CARS, but many couldn't afford them, so the cars ran in various colors of primer 'til there was enough jack to spring for paint. Flat paint isn't traditional, or retro, or anything else so much as a fad, based on misunderstanding. And while there ARE some pretty fast, safe and great-handling rats, the majority just aren't. It's getting better, but I've followed some of these piles down the road with the wheels shaking from out-of-balance or out-of round so bad they couldn't go over 40, I've heard no end of rat engines tuned poorly, missing on a couple of cylinders, etc. but LOUD, and I really don't get why why anyone would want rabbit-dung welds or a Coke-opener nailed to his door. To me, a traditional hot-rod is built the traditional way, primarily by the guy who owns it, so from that perspective, a lot of the rats probably come pretty close to the mark. But i'd really like to see more emphasis put towards good engineering and great performance, instead of rolling piles of parts assembled for maximum visual shock-value and little else. It's STILL possible to build a FAST, SAFE old car out of junk, and do it cheap. As far as rebelling goes, I'd rather do it by being able to smoke the guy in the Lexus in the next lane than by driving something that requires you to get a tetanus shot after you work on it. PS. I like the look of rusted old cars, I like patina, and I really admire the modelers who can achieve it convincingly. I love the look of the old VW bus Dr. Cranky posted too, but I also know that the structure is hopelessly compromised (notice the riveted rocker-panel) and with all that corrosion, you'd have to run secondary ground wires to EVERYTHING to get any kind of electrical reliablilty. I also know from many years of first-hand experience just what it would take to restore the poor thing, and I probably won't live that long. I'm with the poster who thinks it's cool to get a patinated car, a barn-find, leave its history visible, and get it running well and regularly. I also personally think the pretend-patina, fake rust on real cars, and building for purely attention-getting is silly. PPS. In the final analysis, I can pretty much find something to love about ANYTHING with an engine in it. Edited August 8, 2012 by Ace-Garageguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 On a question like this, I turn to the cornerstone of Vulcan philosophy--Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. The car hobby is a broad spectrum with many niches, areas of interest and styles. Personally, I'm not into hot rods, rat rods, customs, lowriders ,donks, Pro Street, etc... my interest runs towards unrestored '60s-70s cars, restored '60s-70s cars, modern performance cars, Pro Touring style vintage cars, period street machine styles from the '60s-70s, vintage and modern racing cars. To each their own, it's all interesting on some level... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 As far as rebelling goes, I'd rather do it by being able to smoke the guy in the Lexus in the next lane than by driving something that requires you to get a tetanus shot after you work on it. I'd like to be the guy in the next lane in a Caddy V-series.. That's the kind of hot rod that gets my motor running. I have no interest in rust, I like all the creature comforts w/ power and handling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpier Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I...Guys in the beginning WANTED SHINY CARS, but many couldn't afford them, so the cars ran in various colors of primer 'til there was enough jack to spring for paint. Flat paint isn't traditional, or retro, or anything else so much as a fad.. this reminded me of a fantastic afternoon in 1960 when i watched, for what seemed like hours, as a guy one street over brush painted his daily driver. i only remember it was blue. blue oil based house paint (latex wasn't popular then). but it was great fun to be in on this and walk around the car as he went from hood to door to trunk and 'round the other side. it really was a simpler time . . . . s i g h . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Just Too Kool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I agree Greg. Very cool as sculpture. But not really kinetic sculpture, if you catch my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62rebel Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 "traditional" and "rat" are polar opposites IMHO. everything had an era in which there were stages of acceptability in build quality; check out some of the early "Little Pages" Rod and Custom magazines and you'll see endless pages of homebuilt rods that were as good as the owner could do on his budget. peppered in there, you'll find a few really visionary customs and rods that were pushing the envelope for that time, but you WON'T find outrageously radical chops, football-field length frame extensions, or cars that were openly unsafe to operate OR illegal... more on THIS in a minute. the editors of ALL the magazines of that era had hundreds of cars to pick through each and every month to do features, that's how big the craze was in those days. it was a big issue to them to put forth a vision of the car culture as clean and wholesome, safe and fun; not one filled with rat-trap cars and rust and hoodlums... so; every car featured met a stringent set of guidelines for proper safety equipment, functional accessories such as fire extinguishers, roll bars, disc brakes, etc.... drivers even went to great lengths to make SURE that unfinished body work, paint, or interiors were not photographed. i'm currently building a 1:1 1951 Ford Tudor sedan into a mild custom... it will eventually get new paint, lowered suspension, a few tasteful mods, but it will NEVER be a rat rod. it will not have an intake sticking through the hood, donk wheels under it, or mexican blankets on the seats, nor license plates for door panels or a pirate flag for a headliner.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I like most things with four wheels. Too much chrome is as bad a too much rust. As far as two bike's go , we already have enough speed bump's ! The 100,000 dollar pro built car's are why the rat rod thing started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aksarben Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 We all have opinions, there's no right or wrong... just personal preferences. I don't know, tell me this is not WRONG.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91blaze Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I don't know, tell me this is not WRONG.. That is a poor excuse for a rat rod. I personally know several guys with true rat rods, like with mismatch junkyard parts, rust, crazy engines, and the like. But none of them are any more dangerous or unsafe than your typical old car. I personally like rat rods just because they're different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pye Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I like "traditional" hot rods. You know, strip it down, and make it fast. In my mind, I see the "perfect" rod as a highboy, maybe a '29 or '32, most definitely a 23-T Bucket. I think the "rat rods" are a movement against the billet-built, rubber-band tire, electronic-engined street rod. I think the owner, or builder, is trying to re-create something from the past. Maybe it’s a reminder of where street rods -- and just as well throw in pro street, etc. -- came from. Shoot, you could call it history or industrial art. Call it American, too. And remember that money mattered. It was being smart in a do-it-yourself, one-of-a-kind, I'll-figure-it-out sort of way. Not cubic dollars, but guys getting together or being a lone wolf, always stretching a buck. Speed isn't cheap. But, those guys had to make it cheap. Primer kept metal from rusting. OK, job done....candy apple is great if you have the bucks. Or, spend that money on a mighty motor. Paint jobs don't make you faster, so make it real, or else forget about it. About as much fad as I like is the bobbed pickup bed instead of the turtleback or fuel tank of a T- Bucket. I'd take a stripped '29 on '32 rails, add some juicers and baffle the pipes. Three 97s on an Offy is fine, sitting atop a flattie, Caddy, or maybe even an Olds. Small-block Chevys are welcome, but somewhat discouraged. American 12-spokes or Halli kidney beans on the front and American Torques or Halli five-holes work on the rear. So does a set of steelies, reversed or not, plated or not, maybe some Baby Moons....French some taillights, if you must.above the rear loop bumper. About as exotic as I would get would be a quickie on the rear, an Olds or GMC is fine. Call it cheap chic. Call it real. It's all about the beginnings and early days. Giving birth is messy...and wasn't always safe. Get my drift? One hundred forty with the top end floored...it was all about being different, better, faster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenrat Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Donk Rat - love it but it should be higher. Do what you want. Stuff what other people think - they are usually wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Setzer Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I build Retro Hot Rods, Gow Jobs, Dry Lakes Cars from the Thirties, Salt Flats Cars, Drag Racers, Midgets, Sprints (both Winged and Wingless),Street Rods, and Muscle Cars, Old Rusty Trucks,etc. But I have not built a Rat Rod so far, but that doesn't mean that I never will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwit Pushin Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Ahem,...allow me to submit to the court of public opinion exhibits A and B. Exhibit A is shiny, yes, but I think the owner of this one must have lost a very costly bet. Like some might wager, "I'll shave my head if I'm wrong!" or, "I'll tattoo my mother-in-law's name on my backside if ...!",...I think that's what happened here. I know taste and money don't always go hand-in-hand, but this suggests something beyond that, I suspect this took an incredible amount of pride-swallowing, (and money), but having publicly challenged someone else and having subsequently lost face, decided this was the only honorable way out of the situation. For that I applaud him. It's hard to find a man with this much honor and respect for the game. Exhibit B. Exhibit B is not shiny, but if given the choice, I contend that 99 percent of us would happily park it in our garage over that which is depicted in Exhibit A. This is one time you don't want to be a one-percenter. The defense rests. Exhibit A: Exhibit B: Edited August 8, 2012 by Qwit Pushin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Setzer Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) I will take the Willeys any day! Iforgot Some other cars I like to build: Vintage Sports Cars, and Vintage Gp Cars, from the the 30's through early 70's! Edited August 8, 2012 by Tom Setzer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I get the feeling bothe the Wilys and Caprice would be a handful to drive as they sit in those pics. I'd consider the Willys first, but I would at least have ground off the rust and put some kind of sealer primer on it to try and protect the sheet metal. I'm not super fond of the rat rod as it has become, it's become more of a freak show than a hot rod at that point. I don't mind a patinaed car, I've owned and driven newer vehicles that ended up having a patina by the time we scraped them. I just don't get the idea of taking an older rest, survivor, or just a decent ride that needs a little TLC and basically ruining by ratting it out either. It would be one thing if it was a field or junk yard escapee that was being built as time went on, but sanding or stripping perfectly serviceable, if not brand new paint to make it look older makes no sense to me. Trucks! took an "Advanced Design" Chevy that needed a little TLC (pretty much a freshened engine is all it needed) and put a Pinto style front suspension on it, 4 Linked rear, mild kustom body work, modern brakes, and a worked over I-6 with Torque Thrusts. What bothers me is that after all that work, they put a fake patina on it tuat just ruined the truck to me. Had they just seam primed the whole truck, or just repainted the altered sheet metal in a matching dark green, it would have looked better. Had it been me building it, I'd have probably left it solid axled, but still lowered it, done the hot rodded I-6, maybe put a newer trans in it, and played with the rolling stock on it if it was supposedly a budget build...........then again for me, I don't have all the cool toys they do on that show......as well as an enclosed shop..... I always found it funny hearing the people that were on Monster Garage complain about how primitive the MG shop was........while thinking how nice that shop looked when compared to laying on the bare concrete in the back yard with basic hand tools............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olskoolrodder Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Do what you want. Stuff what other people think - they are usually wrong. Um...since you aren't anyone of us (or anyone of us anyone other than ourselves...),'zat make you "other people"? Self fulfilling prophecy,and I just joined it,hahaha,because since I'm not you,I'm your "other people" and am therefore wrong too... Edited August 8, 2012 by Olskoolrodder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubbs Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 Just Too Kool. looks like these things were built right at a flea market..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubbs Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Ahem,...allow me to submit to the court of public opinion exhibits A and B. Exhibit A is shiny, yes, but I think the owner of this one must have lost a very costly bet. Like some might wager, "I'll shave my head if I'm wrong!" or, "I'll tattoo my mother-in-law's name on my backside if ...!",...I think that's what happened here. I know taste and money don't always go hand-in-hand, but this suggests something beyond that, I suspect this took an incredible amount of pride-swallowing, (and money), but having publicly challenged someone else and having subsequently lost face, decided this was the only honorable way out of the situation. For that I applaud him. It's hard to find a man with this much honor and respect for the game. Exhibit B. Exhibit B is not shiny, but if given the choice, I contend that 99 percent of us would happily park it in our garage over that which is depicted in Exhibit A. This is one time you don't want to be a one-percenter. The defense rests. Exhibit A: Exhibit B: exhibit C (now we are talking!!!) building a car from a small budgit, ok, slapping things om cars just cause its laying around, i silly to me. its a challange to see who can put the wierdist thing on your car!! Edited August 8, 2012 by tubbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 We can compare the different styles all we want, defend them, detract from them, until we are all blue in the face, but the song remains the same for me: Build what your imagination desires, what your heart imagines, etc . . . I said it before, my own worse enemy is boredom and tedious monotony which is a redundancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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