Ala Kart by AMT?

[Harry P.]

I've actually measured a real 1:1 Dodge Red Ram engine and '39 Ford 3-speed gearbox (and you know, divided by 25?) as represented in the kits, and the first version is pretty close, the newer version is a joke.....it's so badly underscale. I have both versions on the shelf, multiple articles from 1958 onwards about the car, my own reference numbers and photos of a real Red Ram and gearbox and have spent (wasted?) considerable time contrasting / comparing the two. Pretty amazing that in this day of digitizing everything and the ability to have a computer do the scaling and design most of the tooling, that the dimensions could be so far off, but it is, period.

Measure it, divide by 25, and the numbers don't lie.

Exactly!

The real thing is X number of inches long and X number of inches wide and X number of inches tall, etc. Divide by 25 and you have the scale size. It's not subject to "interpretation." The numbers are the numbers!

Why is this simple mathematical concept so hard for the manufacturers to understand?

[38 Crush]

Maybe It's because they're working in Meters. Ha!!

[Casey]

AMT 1330: 

[Jantrix]

Oh boy. In 40 odd years (off and on) of modeling, I've never tackled this one. I have thought about it a lot whenever it's reissued though. I think I'll finally get one.

There's two versions of this kit as I recall, yes? One terrible and one not so terrible? 

[CabDriver]

Ohh, AWESOME news!  I never tackled this one either…building a straight replica of the 1:1, as significant as it is, doesn’t excite me too much, but I’d like to build something close to it.

And yes, @Jantrix, the newer version has a an out of scale engine (this thread has a little info on it, and there’s a more in depth thread somewhere on here talking about the differences between the kits 

[Jantrix]

1 minute ago, CabDriver said:

building a straight replica of the 1:1, as significant as it is, doesn’t excite me too much, but I’d like to build something close to it.

Yes. Zero interest in a replica, but I could work with those parts. Oh yes. 

[Can-Con]

51 minutes ago, CabDriver said:

 

And yes, @Jantrix, the newer version has a an out of scale engine (this thread has a little info on it, and there’s a more in depth thread somewhere on here talking about the differences between the kits 

I remember reading all the threads back then on the subject. IIRC, it was agreed the old engine was as much over scale as the new one was under. The engine should actually be somewhere in size about halfway between the two.

Most people want to compare the Dodge hemi engine to the Chrysler and DeSoto but don't take into account that the Dodge was a smaller engine, not only in cubic inches but also exterior dimensions.

[Phildaupho]

14 hours ago, Jantrix said:

Oh boy. In 40 odd years (off and on) of modeling, I've never tackled this one. I have thought about it a lot whenever it's reissued though. I think I'll finally get one.

There's two versions of this kit as I recall, yes? One terrible and one not so terrible? 

 

14 hours ago, CabDriver said:

Ohh, AWESOME news!  I never tackled this one either…building a straight replica of the 1:1, as significant as it is, doesn’t excite me too much, but I’d like to build something close to it.

And yes, @Jantrix, the newer version has a an out of scale engine (this thread has a little info on it, and there’s a more in depth thread somewhere on here talking about the differences between the kits 

 

13 hours ago, Can-Con said:

I remember reading all the threads back then on the subject. IIRC, it was agreed the old engine was as much over scale as the new one was under. The engine should actually be somewhere in size about halfway between the two.

Most people want to compare the Dodge hemi engine to the Chrysler and DeSoto but don't take into account that the Dodge was a smaller engine, not only in cubic inches but also exterior dimensions.

I built an Ala Kart last year and corrected the engine issue and a few other issues.

 

[250 Testa Rossa]

I seriously hope they get it right this time. 

[stavanzer]

Nothing to "get" right. It is the same old 1990's AMT/Round Two tooling.

Only things that can be changed are the Decals, and the directions. But, I agree, better a Instruction Sheet and Better decals would be an improvement.

[Dave Darby]

10 hours ago, stavanzer said:

Nothing to "get" right. It is the same old 1990's AMT/Round Two tooling.

Only things that can be changed are the Decals, and the directions. But, I agree, better a Instruction Sheet and Better decals would be an improvement.

Actually it's 2002 tooling. And unfortunately, the cowl, hood and nose are way too square. The wheels are pretty off, too. 

[stavanzer]

I am sorry, Dave. It is 2002.

But you are correct about the Body Shape Issues. Added to the Poorly Proportioned Engine and the other things, It makes for a kit, that I would never buy again. Other Builders, however strongly Disagree. I wish them well.

To me, the kit just Looks wrong. It has always generated strong opinions about size and shapes and decals.

Here is proof, for those who have never seen these pages.

https://www.bonediggers.com/2-3/alakart/alakart.html

Be sure to read this article, Written by Mr. Dave Darby, who commented above.

https://www.bonediggers.com/2-3/alakart/alakart.html#kit

[Mark]

Both the old and new kits have issues, neither is perfect.  Between the two, especially with the reissue being likely to have a much improved decal sheet, the "perfect" Ala Kart build will be closer than ever before.

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:27 PM, CabDriver said:

...the newer version has a an out of scale engine (this thread has a little info on it, and there’s a more in depth thread somewhere on here talking about the differences between the kits 

 

And once again for the record, I've actually measured a real Dodge Red Ram hemi engine, divided by 25, and compared the scale dimensions with both kits.

A real Dodge Red Ram "small hemi" is almost exactly the same width across the heads as the bigger early Chrysler hemis, but a bit shorter in overall length, and that's the reason Barris used it.

The original kit engine is very close to correct (contrary to often rebleated opinions). The "new tool" engine is a tiny little joke of a thing...and it's hard to understand the kit designer's reasoning for it, as the original correctly-scaled engine fits the new-tool engine bay like it should.

One more thing...the new-tool kit has about the only "dropped and filled" front beam axle (for any old rodders who know what that is) available anywhere, as far as I know.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[Mark]

The new tool Kart was designed by the group of old guard engineers at AMT, some of whom had started there under the original ownership, and lasted through the Lesney and Ertl eras.  Someone had the brainstorm to let them all go in the middle of this and a couple other projects, which is probably what led to the mistakes that were made in the final product.  Had the engine been sized correctly and the cowl/upper hood curvature been done properly, the new kit would arguably be better than the original.  Still not perfect (wheels aren't quite right IMO) but everyone has an opinion.

According to the Rodders' Journal article, Richard Peters had the Dodge engine left over from boat racing.  The valve covers had been replated several times during the boat racing period, which left the stamped in lettering a bit washed out due to many layers of copper plating on them.  Those were kept in the restoration, rather than being replaced as they are original to the car.

 

[Exotics_Builder]

Well, I have this (original not recent issue)

and this one

And the Danbury Mint die cast.  So, I think I am set.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Mark said:

The new tool Kart was designed by the group of old guard engineers at AMT, some of whom had started there under the original ownership, and lasted through the Lesney and Ertl eras.  Someone had the brainstorm to let them all go in the middle of this and a couple other projects, which is probably what led to the mistakes that were made in the final product.  Had the engine been sized correctly and the cowl/upper hood curvature been done properly, the new kit would arguably be better than the original...

That would explain a lot.

In many ways, the new-tool kit is indeed much better than the original, but it's as though in the middle of the project, everyone went to Tahiti, got drunk, and phoned in their work...but capriciously replacing the design team seems a more likely scenario.   

 

[Smoke Wagon]

Do we know for sure if they’re keeping the shrunken Red Ram for this upcoming release? If that engineers’ revenge (or new team not knowing what they’re doing) story is true then it wouldn’t make sense for Round2 to put a botched kit back on the shelves when we already have to accept 30% higher new kit prices. 

[Mark]

I wouldn't expect any massive retooling such as a new engine.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Smoke Wagon said:

Do we know for sure if they’re keeping the shrunken Red Ram for this upcoming release? If that engineers’ revenge (or new team not knowing what they’re doing) story is true then it wouldn’t make sense for Round2 to put a botched kit back on the shelves when we already have to accept 30% higher new kit prices. 

I'd wager no changes will be made.

Only modelers who take their hobby seriously enough to frequent sites like this one will have any idea that the engine is badly underscale, and most builders aren't going to care anyway.

It's curious to see the devotion to scale fidelity in the model railroad, military, and aircraft communities, but not so much in cars.

I'd guess it has something to do with model cars being more attractive to casual kit builders.

Most static aircraft/military modeling is of older "past it, no longer relevant" subject matter, with minimal appeal to largely math-free we-don't-need-no-stinkin'-history generations, and model railroading requires significant space for a layout and so tends to attract more affluent (usually older) participants with a higher degree of commitment and deeper interest.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Ace-Garageguy
CLARITY

[SteveG]

46 minutes ago, Mark said:

I wouldn't expect any massive retooling such as a new engine.

There're no tooling changes planned for the Ala Kart reissue, only an updated decal sheet and instructions.  Probably revised box art, that's it. 

-Steve   

[stavanzer]

Steve, that is exactly what I had been expecting since it was announced.

So, Take it as it is, or Not!

Up to you.

[keyser]

@Steve GAny hints on the movie/tv car?

[Smoke Wagon]

You hit the nail on the head and then some Bill. It seems I have a habit of forgetting to look at the big picture. 

[Modelbuilder Mark]

I have a few of the re-pop in my stash, because like like the chassis/running gear for other projects. Here it is in a C-cab. 

I did use the motor in this one, as it was not a replica, and the undersized motor was not obvious in this use. 

I have also used the motor in a 1/32 scale hot rod and while not true to scale their either, it does not look bad