Super detail for a novice

[m408]

About to embark on a big project, at least for me, and want to get things as right as possible. Will be a 32 roadster. I need help on the following:

1- Will be using an MSD ignition box. Have no idea of where the wires should go (didn't have these when I was doing 1:1s in my youth). Also, fireing order for both small block and big block chevy engines.

2- Proper carb linkage set up, placement etc. May be single or dual 4 barrel. Also, what recommendations for a support for linkage attachment to pedal?

3- Any sources for master brake cylinder, I'm sure that the kit wont have one. (maybe ignition coil also, don't know if I need one with this new fangled ignition box).

4- Any schematics, wire, fuel, brake lines, etc would be greatly appreciated.

I don't intend this to be of a class that you folks build, but just a project that I can take a lot of time to do right. Gonna spend a lot of time with my rattle cans and wet sanding pads.

[bobss396]

1- I've made up my own MSD boxes, generally for stock cars and just run the wires where I think they'll look realistic. Look at car pictures on the net, eBay auctions, searches on Google, car magazines, online sites like Summit. Firing orders for Chevy V8 engines is 18436752.

2- Again, look at 1:1 car pictures for help. I keep it simple and use Model Car Garage or MAS linkages. I make my own return springs from wire wrap wire wound around a small drill bit. I just strip a piece of wire wrap wire, run the insulation through the firewall most of the time. Don't get too crazy with it, just my opinion.

3- I make my own master cylinders from rectangular styrene stock and a flat piece for the top. I'll run either small wire or small braided line and fittings. Skip the coil with the MSD box. Parts by Parks makes a coil without a hole in it, how annoying! I turn my own with a wire hole in it.

4- For schematics, I would just wing it off real cars. Approximate is just fine and nobody really looks at the bottom of models that closely. Unless the bottom is on display with a mirror.

You have to crawl before you can walk, I walk fast enough for me, others run, some sprint. Work on the detail in increments if you like to go slow. But do it squeaky clean or the effort loses some or all merit. Try to balance out the whole car, don't overbuild one part of it and neglect others. Work on the paint jobs, that is the first thing that people notice and comment on, "nice paint!". If you have model clubs or if you go to shows, take a look at what people are building. Pick out a style that you like and talk with the builder.

Bob

[MrObsessive]

I use a lot of what Bob mentioned along with making my parts out of various and sundry materials. Whatever strikes my fancy at the moment and is available to work easily, and will look in scale (VERY IMPORTANT!), I'll use when scratchbuilding. I have also bought shop manuals (Off eBay or elsewhere) to get the chassis details such as fuel and brake/emergency lines. eBay's also a good place to see a car "On the Lift" to get the underside colors.

To add to what Bob said............You definitely need to get the basics down first before tackling the big (or little) tedious stuff! I'd make sure my builds were clean as a whistle before getting too bogged down with superdetailing.

........And as was mentioned, if you ever go to a show, more often than not they'll comment on the paint job first before noticing any working features are small added parts. Having been a judge at a number of shows, I can tell you that one of the first things I notice is the paint job on the roof, hood, and trunk of a model. If the paint is rough and orange peely, I immediately disqualified it (in my mind) for any further consideration.

Especially when everything else on the table was much better paint wise.

True Story:

At one of the most famous contests in the country, a model won its class without as much as one working feature or scratchbuilt part. What was the secret to winning? The car had an ABSOLUTELY flawless paint job! There was nary a paint blob, or dust speck, or scratch anywhere to be found. It was also painted a metallic which can be difficult sometimes to get perfect. This car was also a "curbside" which means it had no engine detail and rudimentary chassis detail. In other words it was THAT GOOD!

And, it was up against cars that had working features, PE items, and custom work. And yes, one of those cars that it was up against was mine.

So it's nice to have all the bells and whistles at times.............just make sure you got the basics down pat before jumping in too much and getting burned out.

[Moon Pie]

That's very good advice from Mr Obsessive. It's the big reason I dropped out of the hobby 10 or 11 years ago. Along with being an officer in our club, I got caught up in the competition big time, and it got to be more like working a second job than having fun. Don't fall into that trap, because you'll miss out on a great hobby.

[ramonesblues]

That's very good advice from Mr Obsessive. It's the big reason I dropped out of the hobby 10 or 11 years ago. Along with being an officer in our club, I got caught up in the competition big time, and it got to be more like working a second job than having fun. Don't fall into that trap, because you'll miss out on a great hobby.

The firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, according to my 50 year old motors manual and the intake manifold on my '57 Chevy

[m408]

Thanks guys for all of the advice and it will be heeded. As for running before you walk, as I return to this hobby after many years, I'm just starting to crawl. About competitions. I only compete with myself. If my next build is better, in my eyes, than the last one, it's a success. I'm a 74 year old grandfather with some physical problems that haven't allowed be to partake of the activities that I used to. This is a great activity for me. Eats up a lot of idle time and has the bonus of instant gratification.

[bobss396]

Ooopppss, I blew it on the firing order. It is indeed 18436572. Thanks for the correction.

[HOPPIE]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first time on any forum,and I filnd it very interestling. An very helpfull site on the web is "BRIANS MODEL CARS

--TUTORIALS" Excellent. It is crammed with downloadable how - to's and tips. As for the MSD box, I have used plastic stock

of differint thicknesses, the thlin piece for the base and the thicker one for the body. Alternatively you can use quick setting

epoxy putty snd sculpt it from that accordling tp scale dimensions.

[v8horsepowercj]

There are so many wires on MSD setups that it can become difficult very quickly to do in scale as there are so many options that can be added on race cars for instance RPM switches, timing retard modules, timing computers etc can be used with the MSD boxes to activate numerous functions from NOS systems to shift solenoids it's almost endless. On the 1:1's the MSD hooks to the Distributor via a small plastic clip (basically 2 wires from the MSD connect to 2 wires on the distributor via a quick disconnect clip) so basically in scale you could tie your MSD box to the distributor with very fine detail wire. Then run a power lead from the MSD box to a power source and one more wire lead from the MSD box to a ground source on the chassis should suffice for good detail as well as being believeable. Also as stated above the firing order on a stock setup chevy small and big block is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 keep in mind on a chevy this runs in a clockwise fashion looking down from the top at the distributor cap. The cylinders are numbered on a chevy as follows: on the drivers side from front of the engine to the rear 1-3-5-7 and the passenger side from front to rear 2-4-6-8. Also as stated above other than the firing order I usually don't get super involved in the palcement of the wiring as long as it looks good and is believable that's what I go for also keeping the detailing somewhat equal throughout the build i.e. detail the interior as much as you do the engine compartment. I hope this helps you out some and I wish you the Best of luck with your build. Let us know how it turns out.

Chris

[Harry P.]

One of the single best sites for good, clear reference photos of all types of engines is right here:

http://public.fotki.com/wackydave/cars_-_v...themes/engines/

[m408]

There are so many wires on MSD setups that it can become difficult very quickly to do in scale as there are so many options that can be added on race cars for instance RPM switches, timing retard modules, timing computers etc can be used with the MSD boxes to activate numerous functions from NOS systems to shift solenoids it's almost endless. On the 1:1's the MSD hooks to the Distributor via a small plastic clip (basically 2 wires from the MSD connect to 2 wires on the distributor via a quick disconnect clip) so basically in scale you could tie your MSD box to the distributor with very fine detail wire. Then run a power lead from the MSD box to a power source and one more wire lead from the MSD box to a ground source on the chassis should suffice for good detail as well as being believeable. Also as stated above the firing order on a stock setup chevy small and big block is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 keep in mind on a chevy this runs in a clockwise fashion looking down from the top at the distributor cap. The cylinders are numbered on a chevy as follows: on the drivers side from front of the engine to the rear 1-3-5-7 and the passenger side from front to rear 2-4-6-8. Also as stated above other than the firing order I usually don't get super involved in the palcement of the wiring as long as it looks good and is believable that's what I go for also keeping the detailing somewhat equal throughout the build i.e. detail the interior as much as you do the engine compartment. I hope this helps you out some and I wish you the Best of luck with your build. Let us know how it turns out.

Chris

Great advice Chris, thanks.