Ford 427 SOHC Hemi ?

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Posted · Report post

l only recently heard of this engine. lt apparently 1st appeared in lndy in a '64 Galaxie. Most people caught a glimpse in '65 in Hot Rod magazine. From the pics l've seen, it looks almost exactly like a Boss 429. l'm not real familiar with Ford engines, so l was wondering how best to replicate this. l have a nice 427 from the thunderbolt kit. would it be best to use Boss 429 heads on this block? Or is there enough difference between the 2 blocks to matter in 1:25? lf the block difference is minimal, then where could l source a nicely detailed 1:25 Boss 429 from? l have the 429 from Revells 41 Willys pickup but it is sorely lacking any detail & l'm not comfortable using these heads & valve covers on such a nice 427. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Bart.

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The 427 SOHC motor was kitted quite a few times. The most accurate versions are in the AMT 66 Galaxie kit and the 33 Willys van and coupe kits. It was also in the AMT 68 GT 500 Shelby Mustang but the valve covers are not 100% correct in that kit.

Here is some Ford history to better make sense of engine sizes. In the mid fifties Ford introduced the FE engine family, this is a 90 degree v8 where the intake manifold also forms the back of the heads and is trapped under the valve covers. By the mid sixties you could have the FE as a 390 in a T-bird or Galaxie, later the 390 was put in GT Fairlanes and Comets and Mustangs. It was also stroked to make the 428CJ and SCJ engines. The 427 was based on the FE design but has it's own block, external parts are interchanable but the engines internals are 427 only due to its bigger bore and shorter stroke. The SOHC motor was designed to use existing 427 blocks, a blank cam is still run in its normal position to turn the distributor, oil pump, and fuel pump, but valve operation is done in the new heads by a single cam on each side which is driven by a chain under the huge new front timing cover. The 429 belongs to a different engine family, the 385 series, and shares no parts with the 390/428 or 427 engines.

Here is a look at how the timing chains run

427sohc-chains.jpg

Here is a pic that shows the correct valve covers

Ford_427_SOHC___Cammer___by_DetroitDemigod.jpg

Edited by Fat Brian

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Posted · Report post

Thanks for the input, Brian. l can see l should change heads on the '64 427 if l am to go this route. The valve covers l have are pretty close & would probably hide the incorrect heads. The intake in your pic seems to have the carbs set back farther than the 2 l have to choose from. l'm not necessarily going for histporically accurate, but l'd like to be close. l think l can pull it off with this equipment. Thanks again! Bart.

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Posted · Report post

The reason the carbs seem far back is that the SOHC motor used standard 427 intakes but was about six inches longer in the front due to the timing cover. The upper radiator hose in the picture hits the same place on the regular 427 and SOHC but on the cammer it's buried behind the front cover.

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the 427 also had different oil passages running different ways than the other big blocks limiting the heads to be usable only on a 427. as for the crank it can interchange and is sometimes used in stroker kits for the 460. as for the hemi version i have heard rumor of this engine but have not personally found that its real. now for a modern day ford big block hemi i would look to Jon Kaase Racing. they currently make hemi heads for fords and look really good. for it to be a hemi the spark plugs have to be at the top of the combustion chamber and centered to be able to have clearance for the valves. they are also much beefier to handle the added pressure due to the increased compression ration that results from the design. here is a link to the Jon Kaase site. now the motor in the link is a stroked 460 but the physical appearance of a 460 and a 427 are so close its hard to tell unless you pull a valve cover off and look at where the oil galleys are.

http://www.jonkaaser...-ford-hemi.html

Edited by blueoval92

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Posted · Report post

This is some good stuff, guys. This is an engine I know next to nothing about. Glad to see these knowledgeable and verifiable responses.

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glad to help. im a huge fan of ford engines, own 3 personally, a 302, 460, and a 330 thats in my truck. plan to one day build custom engines and would like to have fords as my specialty.

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glad to help. im a huge fan of ford engines, own 3 personally, a 302, 460, and a 330 thats in my truck. plan to one day build custom engines and would like to have fords as my specialty.

That explains your avatar then. I've got a 289 hi-po and a 351C waiting to find homes. The 351 may go in a hot-rod 450SL Mercedes. I've been sorta looking for the 4-48IDA Weber carb setup for he 289, but there's no way I could afford it in anything like the forseeable future.

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yeah that weber setup is BA, im a firm believer in the saying that "there is no replacement for displacement." Im working on selling my 302 and trying to find something to put my 460 in. close to getting it started just need a new distributor, trying to stop buying models 1st so i can get money fot it lol. this hobby is too addicting sometimes.

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One easy and fun way to SEE the difference is to BUILD both!

Both the SOHC and the FE are 1/6 kits...lot of fun to be had, and you can learn.

Revell also makes a Blown SOHC....

513XJS79BZL.jpg

85-1443.jpg

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those are pretty lol. would be amazing if they could run. think i would probably build a go cart powered by one of those lol

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I don't know if this was commented on but in the original post there was mention of the Boss 429. Now, that was a totally different looking engine from the 427 with HUGE valve covers.

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... the Boss 429... was a totally different looking engine from the 427 with HUGE valve covers.

Yup, and a pushrod engine, with NO cam-chain drive cover in front like the SOHC engine had. Here's one installed in a car...

69boss429engine3.jpg

...and on its lonesome...

Boss429enhanced.jpg

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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The cammer in the AMT 33 Willys kits has a chunk missing from the top of the gearbox. For some reason AMT chose to do this so it cleared the firewall/trannie tunnel rather than mould the tunnel higher.

There is also a cammer in the IMC/Union/Testors '48 Ford convertible. It's made undersized as it has to fit into the space normally occupied by a flathead V8.

Cammers can also be found in the AMT/Model King King's Comet Mercury Cyclone Funny Car and Kenz & Leslie Cougar Funny Car.

AMT%2021466P%20MerCyclexc.JPG

amt-1968-mercury-cougar-kenz--leslie-fun

This is the AMT '66 Galaxy cammer stuffed into a Batmobile.

BatmobileStreetfighter008_zps96236ec4.jp

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Posted (edited) · Report post

The 427 SOHC and the Boss 429 was developed for the same reason at different times, to compete in NASCAR racing as an answer to the Mopar 426 Hemi.

Both the SOHC and the Boss are Hemi style engines (the SOHC is a true Hemi and the Boss is a Semi Hemi) but are based on different engine familys, the 427 SOHC is based on the FE family and came in 1964 developed in just 90 days and the Boss 429 is based on the 385 family and came 1969.

NASCAR did not allow the SOHC as they banned OHC designs when they heard of the SOHC and that Mopar was developing a RB family based A925 DOHC 32 valve Hemi engine so Ford gave the SOHC engines to drag racers instead.
The pushrod Boss 429 was allowed for use as the required 500 engines had been produced but it was killed off as were the 426 Hemi beginning in 1971 when NASCAR restricted the carburator/intake port sizes to reduce speed on Super Speedways.

The 427 SOHC produced 616 hp with a single 4bbl carburator and 657 hp with dual 4bbl's with torque in the 515-575 lbs/ft range from the factory and was the most powerful Ford engine produced.

The Boss 429 was rated at 375 hp and 450 lbs/ft in the street cars but produced somewhere around 600 hp in NASCAR race trim...that's not that much if you compare with todays 358 small block NASCAR engines wich produces close to 1000 hp except for the restricted Super Speedway engines.

Edited by Force

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Good info.

Question, why is the SOHC motor called a SOHC motor, when it has 2 overhead cams?

Michael

PS: I have the AMT 33 Willys and the 33 Van, both have the SOHC motor as mentioned already.

Edited by 10thumbs

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Question, why is the SOHC motor called a SOHC motor, when it has 2 overhead cams?

A SINGLE overhead cam engine (SOHC) has ONE CAM PER HEAD, no matter how many heads it has.

A DOHC (double overhead cam) has TWO CAMS PER HEAD, no matter how many heads it has. A DOHC V8 will have 4 cams.

These are typical arrangements for hemi or semi-hemi combustion chambers, but other arrangements are possible for differently shaped chambers.

chto-takoe-dvigatel-dohc_2.jpg

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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iIt's simple, it's called SOHC as it has a Single Over Head Cam on each head operating both the intake and exhaust valves, a DOHC has Dual Over Head Cams on each head, one cam operates the intake valves and the other operates the exhaust valves.

Edit: It looks like you beat me to the line Bill :D

Edited by Force

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Posted (edited) · Report post

OK! Got it. Thanks guys.

Are all other conventional US V8 motors then SOHC, or just OHC, or known only as OHV? The more I think about it....well, terminology is fact in this case. I don't mean to be a clown, I have some hands on knowledge about motors and quick street type cars, but not much Ford experience.

I think the description is lacking. Single overhead is single, dual overhead is two. Why "overhead" in the first place? Does this mean over (above) the cylinder head (midline, or above the point of combustion) or above the usual cam tunnel (above the crank) or just somewhere above the centerline of the motor itself?

Is the Boss 429 then a SOHC motor too?

Again, I'm not pestering, I'm just maybe a pita, small bore. I'm just intersted too.

Michael

Edited by 10thumbs

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Posted · Report post

I'm not a big Ford guy. But this is a very interesting discussion covering several of Fords more interesting engines. Thank guys.

Scott

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OK! Got it. Thanks guys.

Are all other conventional US V8 motors then SOHC, or just OHC, or known only as OHV? The more I think about it....well, terminology is fact in this case. I don't mean to be a clown, I have some hands on knowledge about motors and quick street type cars, but not much Ford experience.

I think the description is lacking. Single overhead is single, dual overhead is two. Why "overhead" in the first place? Does this mean over (above) the cylinder head (midline, or above the point of combustion) or above the usual cam tunnel (above the crank) or just somewhere above the centerline of the motor itself?

Is the Boss 429 then a SOHC motor too?

Again, I'm not pestering, I'm just maybe a pita, small bore. I'm just intersted too.

Michael

No the Boss 429 and most of the conventional engines are OHV engines they have the cam in the center of the engine block and activate the valves via lifters, pushrods and rockers, a SOHC has the cam in the heads and can have rockers, but not allways, to activate the valves, a DOHC aslo has the cams in the heads and the valves are activated directly by the camshafts.

OHV stands for Over Head Valves and the engines before them had side valves as the Flatheads has where the valves are almost directly activated by the cam lobes, and OHC is Over Head Cam where the camshaft/camshafts is on top in the heads...conventional engines has the camshaft in the engine block as I said and so do the side valve engines.

So SOHC is short for Single Over Head Camshaft, DOHC is Dual Over Head Camshaft and OHV is Over Head Valves

Edited by Force

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I believe a "simplified" explanation to the term OHV (over head valve) is that many (if not all) flat head engines (straight and "V" style engines) had the valves located in the engine block. This may have simplified construction of the motors but was very un-fun when it came to setting valve lash.

Overhead cam motors reduce the amount of reciprocating objects (that waste power/energy) that need to be lubricated with a rotational object (the overhead cam) that does the same task while reducing the loss of power/energy due to objects that have to change direction up to umpteen times a second. The overhead cam can also apply more force to the valves/valve springs without bending like valve push rods can do.

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And all OHC engines are OHV, but not all OHV engines are OHC. Obviously, eh?

This is the basic layout of the valve train in a "flathead" valve-in-block engine. Variations are numerous, but this is the general layout, for any number of cylinders. You see the cam is in the block, above the crankshaft.

Single-cylinder_T-head_engine_(Autocar_H

And this is the basic layout of the valve train in a "pushrod" OHV engine. You see the cam is still in the block, but it operates the valves by pushrods and rocker arms, and the valves would be in the cylinder head, not the block.

Pushrod_trans.gif

The switch was made from "flathead" engines to OHV engines because flatheads are notoriously poor at breathing. There's no really good way to route ports and passages through the block, and valve size, combustion chamber shape and compression ratios are severely limited in flatheads.

As blunc noted, placing the cam OVER the combustion chambers (in OHC engine configurations) allows the elimination of relatively heavy lifters (tappets), and heavy as well as somewhat flexible pushrods.

OHC engines came into play to allow the higher RPMs (a benefit of eliminating all that excess valve-train reciprocating weight) that the better-breathing OHV engines, with their bigger valves, straighter ports, possible hemi-shaped combustion chambers and higher compression ratios made possible.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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The switch from flatheads to overhead valves? People need to go back a check things out. Overhead valve engine were developed about the same time as flatheads. Right from the start In 1903, Buick had overhead valves. And they were not the first. The fact is no Buick automobile with exception of Marquette ever had a flathead engine. And although Marquette was manufactured Buick, as companion car to Buick, it was never considered a true Buick.

Now to confuse the newbies out there, we should go into sleeve valve engines.

Remember one of Buick's earliest slogans, "Valve In Head. Value Ahead."

Scott

Edited by unclescott58

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