A request for aftermarket support!

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Posted · Report post

With all of the great new kit releases already out, and quite a few more scheduled, there is a need for photoetched detail sets for these kits. In the past, the Model Car Garage had always fullfilled this need. Not long after the new kits were out, we had a detail set available. It seems they are no longer producing ALL-NEW detail sets.

http://www.modelcargarage.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=33

These new, highly detailed 50s cars are just begging for separate lettering, emblems, interior trim, etc. to really finish these gems off properly. Maybe licensing fees are keeping these detail sets from coming to our benches?

How about it aftermarket? 265.gif

Discuss please ;)

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Posted · Report post

Could be a cost issue too, maybe they dont have the money to invest in to P/E sets right now, there could be a lot of reason's, maybe email them and ask them if they have any plans to ;)

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Posted · Report post

Any other views on this?

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Posted · Report post

Sure , my thoughts are as follows . I do appreciate the After Market and all of the products . I (we) are on a Fixed Income . I cannot keep up with the new releases any longer . I have to be more selective .

Nomenclature was among the first choices to go away . I do have a smattering of Photoetch . I now find

myself trading off kits I will not get to in favor of what I cannot afford and want . I did not buy these for trading ever in my mind . Such be life . I just cannot support all niches of my Hobby as I used to . Thank you Uncle Sam for placing me here due to your Rules ! Apparently I needed to cheat ! Bitter and

holding grudges ... Thanx ..

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Posted · Report post

Sure , my thoughts are as follows . I do appreciate the After Market and all of the products . I (we) are on a Fixed Income . I cannot keep up with the new releases any longer . I have to be more selective .

Nomenclature was among the first choices to go away . I do have a smattering of Photoetch . I now find

myself trading off kits I will not get to in favor of what I cannot afford and want . I did not buy these for trading ever in my mind . Such be life . I just cannot support all niches of my Hobby as I used to.

Ditto

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Posted · Report post

4 years ago I would spend $45 on a resin kit, buy 2 kits (or more) as donors, a photo etch set, $30 worth of automotive paint and some aftermarket decals just to build a model if the subject interested me. Today I have to think out every dollar I spend. I would be a buyer for PE sets for kits that lack scripts and emblems, but I would want them smaller than whats been out before (no pedals, wiper arms, plate frames, ect.) to keep the cost down. Scripts and emblems only.

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Posted · Report post

4 years ago I would spend $45 on a resin kit, buy 2 kits (or more) as donors, a photo etch set, $30 worth of automotive paint and some aftermarket decals just to build a model if the subject interested me. Today I have to think out every dollar I spend. I would be a buyer for PE sets for kits that lack scripts and emblems, but I would want them smaller than whats been out before (no pedals, wiper arms, plate frames, ect.) to keep the cost down. Scripts and emblems only.

I quite agree.

For example, if they did that for the '50 Olds, I'd be surprised if it went over $10. At that price, I'd buy a set for every variation I plan to build- club coupe, 2-dr. sedan (I know of one in the works,) fastback and Holiday. And when Revell releases the convertible, they'll end up on that too. If I ever get brave enough to try building a 4-door or wagon, and scratching up the engine for a 76, I'll buy more. At that price, I can afford it.

But....$15-20 each. Nope.

On a related topic- foil decals would be an acceptable (though not ideal) alternative. Does anyone know how, or if, those can be made by individual hobbyists or if anyone makes those?

Charlie Larkin

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Posted · Report post

gets back to the whole philosphy of modeling: do you build, or buy?

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Posted · Report post

Maybe licensing fees are keeping these detail sets from coming to our benches?

I get the feeling MCG is in the situation of needing to be very careful which kits they should do p/e sets for. They must have a ton of dead stock for kits like the '71 GTX. It's a $15 kit, and how many people are going to spend another $10 on a few metal detail items to detail a decent, but not modern/high-end kit? Not many, I suspect. Most modelers are cheap frugal, myself included, and scoff at paying $29.99 for a kit, so another $12.00 for a p/e set is not going to happen. That leaves MCG targeting the folks who would buy p/e sets regardless of the cost, which is a far smaller number of people, which means it will take a lot longer to sell those 100 frets they had produced in 2003. :huh:

Maybe someone like Scott(?) from Auto Modeler or similar could chime in an give us an idea of what it costs to make p/e fret, what the minimum order number is, and so on.

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Posted · Report post

I came from building planes where aftermarket was 100% of the cost of the kit. I could not even bring myself to build OOB. I returned to building cars purely because of burnout. I was greeted and treated to the fact that MCG made p/e for my builds. I was a happy camper and i promptly built a '69 Camaro RS and a '72 Dr Hemi Cuda both with fantastic MCG photoetch.

I have many other kits that have a corresponding fret of p/e from MCG.

My advice to MCG is to invest in new p/e frets. THey cannot sell them if they do not make them.

joe.

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Posted · Report post

I would respectfully suggest you research what gos into creating / producing a fret of photo etched product.A resin caster can put a casting on the market for an initial outlay, while not cheap, but much cheaper than photo etch.He has to either pay for, or produce his own master, and then put it in rubber, then cast, clean up and sell...Usually for less then 500 bucks ( give or take). Photo etch ?...Artwork may cost you several hundred dollars, and then you have to have a 'first run' fromyour photo etch person, which usually runs between 1200-1500 dollars. For a 'cottage industry' fella, the initial outlay can be 4 or 5 times the initial outlay for a resin caster. Now, I'm not knocking resin casters here, but just pointing the differance in expenditures, and how it may affect what you decide to offer in your product line....'Z'

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Posted (edited) · Report post

In regards to Steven's comment, yes do the research or at least consider greatly what he is conveying in his comment about cost. I am a caster and the initial outlay for the cost of materials such as mold rubber and resin are not as much as what photoetch will cost. The acid chemicals alone that are involved in the process would require a license just to get the quantities to do a large job. The process Steven has mentioned is time consuming and we all know what time invested can amount to. As a caster, nobody can imagine the amount of time I have to invest in creating a part from scatch. If that amount of time had to calculated, and I chose to just pick a number such as $15.00 an hour, I would have to charge close to $100.00 a part just to break even. I offer my parts as sideline to supplying my own needs. MCG is a real business unlike what I do and has to make a profit in order to stay in business. We all hope for many items to be supplied for our interests and not every want or desire is going to be made on our personal schedules. Currently, we all live in the most prosperous period in modeling history. The aftermarket industry is threatened by the current economy and if you wish to blame it on some political situation so be it, but just remember you could be living a modelers life like in the 60's when thread was used for ignition wiring and cotton used to simulate smoking tires. Been there, done that and I am glad I live in the current timeline.

Edited by edboys

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Posted · Report post

I do enjoy using P/E sets for the most part, but really I just the brake rotors and call it a day, so I dont really see the point of spending $10 or more for something that I am not going to use all of it, or heck, half of it. If I was a contest builder, then maybe.

I will be the first to admit that I am cheap, I would like to say frugal, but no, I am cheap :lol: , so I try and support the aftermarket world, but the cost can add up fast, I have two builds that I am doing, both are using stuff for the aftermarket world, one of them between the paint and decals, I am in for $42, because of a very nice fellow resident and club member , the kit was free. :D

Then I have another build that the kit cost was little over $40, paint $13, wheels $12 if I decided too, it all adds up

Its hard for me to justify buying aftermarket stuff like P/E sets that cost the same or more as a kit does, And I completely forgot where I was going with all this, :unsure::(:lol:

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Posted · Report post

I build for myself, and I have no interests in competing in contests. So for me personally I don't feel the need to go all out on a build. ( although I do enjoy looking at them )

Several years ago I did a build to replicate a friend of mines 1970 Charger and I had all kinds of PE stuff in it. Once completed I realized I had spent had more in aftermkt stuff in the car than I had in the car ( and the kit wasn't exactly cheap)

My hats off to them and I would love to support the aftermkt suppliers more then I do ,,,,,but my interests and budget make the decision as to what I buy.

But anymore about the only aftermkt pieces I buy are pre-wired distributers , some resin pieces that I can't get in stryene and decals .

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I would respectfully suggest you research what gos into creating / producing a fret of photo etched product.A resin caster can put a casting on the market for an initial outlay, while not cheap, but much cheaper than photo etch.He has to either pay for, or produce his own master, and then put it in rubber, then cast, clean up and sell...Usually for less then 500 bucks ( give or take). Photo etch ?...Artwork may cost you several hundred dollars, and then you have to have a 'first run' fromyour photo etch person, which usually runs between 1200-1500 dollars. For a 'cottage industry' fella, the initial outlay can be 4 or 5 times the initial outlay for a resin caster. Now, I'm not knocking resin casters here, but just pointing the differance in expenditures, and how it may affect what you decide to offer in your product line....'Z'

Z in my profession I don't do much with numbers but I do recognize when someone does not complete their point.

The $1200 - $1500 for a first run, and artwork of $200 for a total of $1700 is not much considering MCG charges between $9.99 and $14.99 per fret. Assuming that first run is 200 frets that means that a sale of 200 frets at $13.99 is $2798 yields a very cool profit. Tell me there are not 200 of us willing to buy a photoetch set for the '70 Mustang, 427 S/C Cobra or the .....After the initial artwork cost is paid the cost goes down and profit goes up.

I apologize to MCG for using their name in this discussion as it applies to any aftermarket producer. You are the one we are most familiar with.

joe.

Edited by jaydar

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Posted · Report post

gets back to the whole philosphy of modeling: do you build, or buy?

So I take it you scratchbuilt everything on your display shelf- scripts, tires, glass, and all, right?

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Posted · Report post

no; i buy

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Posted · Report post

OK, Joseph, now complete YOUR point. Advertising. (can't sell them if nobody knows about them, have you priced an ad in the mags lately ?), packaging ( not just those little plastic bags, but the printing of all those little 'how to use photo etch' inserts plus the 'cover printing.Someone trims those photo etch frets from the master fret, someone packages them up, someone pays to print the catalog, Shipping. Cost of renting a table at hobby shows....postage and related costs. Now, II realise these arent mind numbing espenses, but they do add up. And I'm not sure, but i don't know if a run of 200 meets the supplier's minimum or not. And you're assuming sales of all two hundred, not necessarily a given, no matter what you think.I work hand in hand with a resin caster; what happens when that body he casts 50 of; because he thinks it will sell like hotcakes....doesn't sell at all ?...( it DOES happen)....

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Posted · Report post

Steve, all good points but most of all those expenses (with the exception of the package related ones, good point!) you just mentioned are applicable to al the products in his inventory. Each of the frets would only carry a fraction.,

joe.

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Posted · Report post

With all of the great new kit releases already out, and quite a few more scheduled, there is a need for photoetched detail sets for these kits. In the past, the Model Car Garage had always fullfilled this need. Not long after the new kits were out, we had a detail set available. It seems they are no longer producing ALL-NEW detail sets.

http://www.modelcarg...p?idCategory=33

These new, highly detailed 50s cars are just begging for separate lettering, emblems, interior trim, etc. to really finish these gems off properly. Maybe licensing fees are keeping these detail sets from coming to our benches?

How about it aftermarket? 265.gif

Discuss please ;)

I talked by phone with Bob Korunow of Model Car Garage just a week ago: He told me that he's had to deal with some family situations (elderly parents, IIRC), which has gotten into his time for drawing up new products for photoetching, but things have settled down, so he's getting back to the important stuff in his life and business.

Art

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Posted · Report post

4 years ago I would spend $45 on a resin kit, buy 2 kits (or more) as donors, a photo etch set, $30 worth of automotive paint and some aftermarket decals just to build a model if the subject interested me. Today I have to think out every dollar I spend. I would be a buyer for PE sets for kits that lack scripts and emblems, but I would want them smaller than whats been out before (no pedals, wiper arms, plate frames, ect.) to keep the cost down. Scripts and emblems only.

Craig,

For starters, I personally have never bought a set of PE that didn't include scripts and emblems, and have never really worried if they included other stuff I might not use (for example, I have here a complete set of the now-legendary Putty Thrower scripts from the 1980's, most having multiple scripts for all the different trim levels of the car they are meant for).

Unlike say, resin kits, there really isn't a way to just split out the parts that a particular customer might want, particularly if that means virtually wasting out whole sections of a fret of scripts.

In my resin casting career, I used a fair number of PE scripts, including the now very rare Putty Thrower sets, to get the scripts I needed for transkits of different trim levels of cars than offered by the MCG set were the Biscayne scripts, all the rest was there on the body shell already. Did that mean I just 'threw away" the rest of the fret? Not on your bippy, my friend! Someday I will more than likely use the Bel Air scripts from that, perhaps even the Impala scripts as well.

Isn't this pretty much the same thing as buying a multi-version (think 2in1 or 3in1 kits here)? I think it is--and that is the stuff from which parts boxes are made from, IMHO.

Art

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Posted · Report post

gets back to the whole philosphy of modeling: do you build, or buy?

OK, while not wishing to be seen as confrontational: Do you build your own scripts and emblems/badges?

Art

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Posted · Report post

I talked by phone with Bob Korunow of Model Car Garage just a week ago: He told me that he's had to deal with some family situations (elderly parents, IIRC), which has gotten into his time for drawing up new products for photoetching, but things have settled down, so he's getting back to the important stuff in his life and business.

Art

THAT is outstanding news.

joe.

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Posted · Report post

Coming from someone who produces a lot of photoetched parts, the problem for me isn't the initial setup costs, it's the time required to research and design the parts.

When i hear "make this part here", my head swims.

For me to make a part, i have to absolutely understand that part. I need to know what size it is, and the sizes of all the stuff it connects to, and how it all fits together. If customers would help with requests by doing some of the research, there would probably be more PE stuff being released.

Once i have all the dimensions, understand how the part fits together, and have a plan to how i could be reproduced.. I then have to draw it up.. all while following certain design rules for Photoetching. Oftentimes the initial design idea won't work, because it breaks the rules of photoetching. So you have to tweak things.

It's a time-consuming endeavor.

Another aspect is, having the actual model that people are talking about. If you want door trim for a 55 Chevy kit, i have to find and buy that same kit... then tweak and tweak and tweak the artwork until that door trim artwork fits the kit perfectly...

I haven't done too much for certain kits because i'm really paranoid about spending all the time and setup costs to make a new fret... and then the kit goes out of production.

Anyway, my point is it's just hard.. you have to make so many decisions on what to do, what will sell, what won't, and how best to invest your time.

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