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obscure questions - march madness!

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often i have questions about the art of automotive, so i will try to keep them all in this space.

currently, my only interest is in traditional, "period correct" hot rods, so most of the querries will be directed in that direction.

And my recent obsession with '40 & early '50s jalopies. they're just so, err, visceral. again, the essence of the sport.

Edited by southpier

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'32 Ford grille - often i see dimples in the sides about mid height. is this a prototype detail? and for what? or just a place Revell has provided for symetrical headlight placement?

same grille, i have seen a flare around the edge. i always sand mine off, but i've seen some respected builders finish up their car with it on. prototypical or models detail only?

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There is a slight flared lip arounf the rear edge of the 32 grill shell, the Revell kit replicates chrome strip being placed around the shell. There are not dimples in the stock shell, the must be for headlight placement. Here is a pic of a replacement shell up close.

IMG_2157.JPG.jpg

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thanks. next one, i'll leave the flair intact.

and fill those pesky detents!

Edited by southpier

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The stock grille-shell also has a hole stamped in the top of it for the original radiator cap.

32-Grill-Shell.jpg

1FordShell1.jpg

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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that's a detail i like to incorporate. never noticed the flare around the base of the radiator cap before, so now i've got to dig out the putty.

thanks

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'32 Ford grille - often i see dimples in the sides about mid height. is this a prototype detail? and for what? or just a place Revell has provided for symetrical headlight placement?

same grille, i have seen a flare around the edge. i always sand mine off, but i've seen some respected builders finish up their car with it on. prototypical or models detail only?

The dimples are where to drill the holes for the headlight wires if you intend to include this detail, you also drill a hole in the bottom of the headlight.

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does anyone have a good way to build (or direct me to a site) Guide style headlights?

i think the little bumpy part will be fairly easy, but the lens has me stymied. i've thought of MV style jewel reflectors, but they're really the wrong shape.

thanks

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fuel pressure pumps: do they mate directly to the fuel tank, or a separate tank which in turn pressurizes the fuel tank?

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does anyone have a good way to build (or direct me to a site) Guide style headlights?

i think the little bumpy part will be fairly easy, but the lens has me stymied. i've thought of MV style jewel reflectors, but they're really the wrong shape.

thanks

This style of headlights is in one of the model A Ford kits, can't remember which?

Maybe big rig roof "running lights" shaped to fit on top of the usual Revell '32 headlights would work?

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fuel pressure pumps: do they mate directly to the fuel tank, or a separate tank which in turn pressurizes the fuel tank?

Do you mean the really old-school pressure pumps? Like El Mirage days?

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does anyone have a good way to build (or direct me to a site) Guide style headlights?

i think the little bumpy part will be fairly easy, but the lens has me stymied. i've thought of MV style jewel reflectors, but they're really the wrong shape.

thanks

Not all 'guide style' headlights have exactly the same shape marker lens. A thought would be to put some clear styrene rod (or sprue) in a drill motor (as a lathe) and turn it against a file / sandpaper until you have about the right front curvature, then cut it off and finish with smaller files, etc. A lot of precision work......

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Do you mean the really old-school pressure pumps? Like El Mirage days?

yes; the things that get mounted next to the driver and he has to pump the thing to increase fuel delivery. there's usually a Moon style tank in the general vicinity, so maybe the full size gas tank has been deleted?

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....Maybe big rig roof "running lights" shaped to fit on top of the usual Revell '32 headlights would work?

i'm willing to give that idea a try; thanks.

any resin guys casting these?

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yes; the things that get mounted next to the driver and he has to pump the thing to increase fuel delivery. there's usually a Moon style tank in the general vicinity, so maybe the full size gas tank has been deleted?

91016300_L.jpg

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yes. is this pressurizing an air tank which in turn does the fuel tank, or the fuel tank directly?

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yes. is this pressurizing an air tank which in turn does the fuel tank, or the fuel tank directly?

Yes, when you see a Moon tank (surplus aircraft tanks of various sizes were also used in the post-war days) and a hand pump in the cockpit, the hand pump pressurizes the small (Moon, etc) tank directly, which then feeds directly to the engine. The small tank was manually filled with fuel sufficient for the run beforehand, and there would be no need for a stock tank.

Most of the Model T and A bodies that would have been run at the dry lakes or in early drag-racing had stock tanks in the cowl and these also were sometimes pressurized by an external hand pump. From '32 onward the Ford stock tanks were in the tail, had mechanical engine-driven pumps, and I've never seen one of these fitted with a hand-operated pressure pump though it's entirely possible they could have been.

Conventional electric fuel pumps were available as war surplus, and by 1949 as aftermarket equipment. The optimum location for any electric pump is close to the tank and below the fuel level, so it will self-prime and push fuel, which it is better at doing than pulling it.

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good information; thanks.

TRJ #56 hit my bench yesterday. on page #1 there's a great shot of the McMullen Roadster. the pressure pump is right up in front of the radiator shell (double points!!) and there looks to be a petcock on the mounting plate.

'cause of sourse i wondered how the driver would be pumping, shifting, & steering at the same time. so i guess sequence of operation is: "fill up, pump up, and GO"

Edited by southpier

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cowl steering: is there a structural mounting system required, or is eveything just bolted to body metal? (i.e., firewall, driver, & passenger cowl inside). thinking of it as an upside down T, with the steering wheel bracket holding the long part and steering shaft (don't know the correct name for the part the pitman arm attaches) going out through the driver's side, is the other part of the structure just an empty tube?

i did a HAMB search with interesting but non specific results, and a google images netted a lot of street rod stuff i think is to - well, "refined" comes to mind. was cowl steering so complicated the Elders just used a rail mounted box?

Edited by southpier

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This is the definitive early cowl-steering setup...a Franklin steering box. This is shown in Barney Navarro's dry-lakes car. Navarro's car had the sector shaft exit on the right side of the cowl, which was a little unusual. By turning the box over, obviously, the effectice direction of movement on the Pitman arm would be reversed, so it would work equally well on the other side. The steering wheel is at the top left of the photo, and the Pitman arm and drag link are under the R&C logo, bottom right. The tube in front of the box is a part of the structure of the car, and the end of the sector shaft closest to the viewer would be supported as well.

1002rc_12_o+1927_ford_navarro_roadster+transmission.jpg

"Early on the preferred steering box for this steering style was the Franklin steering box from Series 9 ('16-21) and Series 10 ('22-24) Franklin automobiles. The Chrisman Brother's famous number 25 dragster, one of the first purpose-built drag cars, utilized a Franklin steering box in a through-the-cowl steering setup, as did many early Midget, Sprint, and Indy cars. As the Franklin unit became scarcer, the Ross center steering unit, found in a variety of forklift trucks, became the steering box of choice. The '48-52 Crosleys also utilized a Ross steering box, but it was not as beefy as the forklift models. Eventually various manufacturers, like Jones, Halibrand, Norden, Schroeder, and others reacted to the racers needs and began manufacturing through-the-cowl, or center steering-style steering boxes specifically for oval track racing applications."

....here's a Ross in a Midget. Notice how the tube the sector shaft runs in is supported on both ends.

steeringross.jpg

And here's a '56 Ford F-100 box modified to use in a through-cowl application. Again, notice the tubular braketry at the top that will become rigidly attached to the vehicle structure.

steeringf100.jpg

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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Posted · Report post

great visuals; thanks.

and now i have yet another forum to peruse!

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For another steering gear option, here's a look at a Schroeder unit in a '32 Ford roadster at the most recent 'winter garage party' at Rolling Bones Hot Rod Shop here in NY:

DSCN4187-vi.jpg

And a little peek at the 'teardrop' shape added to the cowl where the arm extends out of it:

DSCN4146-vi.jpg

Early Years Resins offers a Schroeder-style steering gearbox, and Ron is working on a combo kit with a very nice pitman arm, based on this Revell part:

DSCN2843-vi.jpg

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Posted (edited) · Report post

that bracketry looks similar to one of the pictures i found. i kind of like the option of not running the tube (?) all the way across the passenger side.

i'm familiar with Early Years, but who's Ron, and does he have a website ?

thanks

oh; EYR is Ron!

found this out from Racing Lobby

Edited by southpier

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new though du jour:

anyone consider photo-etching a '32 ford K member?

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