meaneyme Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 There are still some modelers out there that think the more photo-etch and aftermarket parts you add to your models, the better your chances will be to win at a contest. What about cleanliness? Scale accuracy? Paint? Basics of a build? Please help me make some people understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 How do properly applied aftermarket details interfere with cleanliness, accuracy and basics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I feel the same way Kevin. The basics you mentioned should always come first. It doesn't matter how many details one adds if they are put on with gobs of glue,crooked etc. I'll take a cleanly built box stock or curbside model over a sloppily detailed model any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Because the builders you are talking about believe that the ohhh shiny if you will of adding P/E sets and aftermarket goodies will make up for not covering the basic's of modeling building. It is what it is, just build your builds and dont worry about what other builders do , or dont do on their builds, like is to short for it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteowl7710 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) I don't believe he's implying that you can't build a contest winning model with aftermarket pieces IF (and it's a big if) you have the basics of modeling down in the first place. What he's saying is why do some people insist on building piles of dog business and then pour $150 worth of wiring and photo-etch into said business and presume that it's magically a good model rather than a expensive "jewel" encrusted pile of business. That sort of segues into that always dangerous topic around here of people then going and telling the builder of the business that it IS in fact a FANTABULOUS model of epic proportions unrivaled by few things of beauty in the known world, while 99% of the people who see it's a pile of business keep quiet for fear of offended the builder to the level of butt-hurtedness. Edited December 31, 2012 by niteowl7710 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I don't believe he's implying that you can't build a contest winning model with aftermarket pieces IF (and it's a big if) you have the basics of modeling down in the first place. What he's saying is why do some people insist on building piles of dog business and then pour $150 worth of wiring and photo-etch into said business and presume that it's magically a good model rather than a expensive "jewel" encrusted pile of business. It those builders think that if they pour $150 of aftermarket goodies that it will make up for they pile of dog business of a model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruz Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Some people know what to do with aftermarket parts, some people don't. It can go both ways. The basics however must always be observed, no question about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemodeler Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Some people know what to do with aftermarket parts, some people don't. It can go both ways. The basics however must always be observed, no question about that. Well said and nothing to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The builders in question do it because they feel it makes up for their lack of skills of basic model building, and by adding all sorts of aftermarket goodies, it makes them feel better about their build that in their mind would other wise suck, but in reality, it just looks like when the MythBusters polished up a turd. So in their minds, the over compensation of the aftermarket stuff will in turn make the build better,and hopefully hide all the stuff that was not done properly from people looking at their build, and in most case's , it will be overlooked, and the build and builder will get the praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Jacen is absolutely right. Trying to force others to do things to conform to the way you want them to do it is a losing battle from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diymirage Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 i play drums i have a very basic drum set, bass drum, floor drum, 2 toms and a snare every once in a while i see a music video where the drummer had a drumset with a drum count well over 20 pieces, you know the type, the ones you need to be airlifted into because of how many drums there are ive thought off getting a kit like that before because of the "coolness: level but i have refrained from it every time because i have yet to master my skills to get the best out off the few drums i allready i believe the same principle applies to aftermarket parts on models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Jacen is absolutely right. Trying to force others to do things to conform to the way you want them to do it is a losing battle from the start. Agreed, but no one has any right to try and force any one to build their models they bought with their money to build it a way you want them to . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Agreed, but no one has any right to try and force any one to build their models they bought with their money to build it a way you want them to . The poster originally said "help me make some people understand." That won't work. You can't force your opinion on others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The poster originally said "help me make some people understand." That won't work. You can't force your opinion on others. I know Harry , I was agreeing with you and Jacen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_G Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I feel your pain, Kevin. Depending on the particular contest's judging criteria, sometimes an entry with poorly done, non-scale appearing details will get that extra point that beats your super-clean but basically box-stock build. Here's another one for you- sometimes you lose a point if your motor isn't visible, like on a GP bike where it's covered with a fairing. So then you have to decide between going for the points by removing the fairing (which can be a booger) or displaying the bike the way you think it LOOKS the best. It's a meat-grinder out there I tell ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Jim Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Bottom line is, most contests are sponsored by the bigger aftermarket companies and surreptitios points are always awarded to models using the sponsors products. That's just politics. What !?!?!? . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CadillacPat Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 What !?!?!? . . . Ditto, What???????????? Gigantic Model Car Contests here in Houston and they are all produced by local individuals. That's just they way they are!!!!! CadillacPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunc Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 A question to ask is: are these megabuck PE users that don't exhibit the basic skills winning anything over better skilled builders? I was once part of a judging team that moved a kick-arse model from 1st to second place because his driveshaft was missing and the next best model had made sure his basics were covered. The original poster could be told to encourage the object of his derision that he may place better in contests if he executes the basics better in addition to proper addition of aftermarket parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooterville75 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Its more like to each there own in my opinion. Its all in what "the builder" wants to do or build how they choose too. Hey no harm no foul ya know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I feel your pain, Kevin. Depending on the particular contest's judging criteria, sometimes an entry with poorly done, non-scale appearing details will get that extra point that beats your super-clean but basically box-stock build. Here's another one for you- sometimes you lose a point if your motor isn't visible, like on a GP bike where it's covered with a fairing. So then you have to decide between going for the points by removing the fairing (which can be a booger) or displaying the bike the way you think it LOOKS the best. It's a meat-grinder out there I tell ya One of the reasons I have this 'personal thing' against competing in (or acting as a judge) in contests. As for helping you understand, Kevin? Can't help you at all there, I've often wondered the same thing. I've seen quite a few well-done models lose to what I'd consider second or third place entries. All I can think of is that judges are humans like anyone else, and maybe the model that wasn't the cleanest build and had maybe too many added bits on it just somehow had a little bit more 'gotcha' factor than the more cleanly-built models with fewer bells and whistles at that particular contest. No idea if I'm correct or not, or how many times that particular scenario may play out, just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Bottom line is, most contests are sponsored by the bigger aftermarket companies and surreptitios points are always awarded to models using the sponsors products. That's just politics. Man, I don't know where those contests are, and I darn sure don't want to know! I've never seen, experienced, or even heard of that happening in "most contests." It's too bad that's been your experience. Edited December 31, 2012 by Danno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azers Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) My two cents worth. I like to use aftermarket items as well. I feel they enhance the model. But i also follow the basics. I do not feel that aftermarket items should be used to cover shoddy workmanship. At a contest once i was competeing in a person entered a 32 ford and put down a full page list of all the aftermarket stuff he used on it. The total dollar amount was over 100.00. He didn't even win place in the categories because there were nicer cars. He threw a fit because he didn't win anything until they announced the major awards and he won the best use of aftermarket pieces award and best detail which started a furor among the other contestants. Imho model building and competeing is about building skills, manufacturing items needed to enhance the kit, and using aftermarket pieces to enhance the kit. Not how much money can i spend and how much stuff can i stick on my model. Too many times at contests especially popular choice you see the ooh shiny attitude of i like that one so im going to vote for it because it has shiney paint or tons of photoetch or aftermarket items. But it can have lousy engine detail scratches in the paint or glue blobs on the glass, they vote for something like this and ignore the nicer well thought out and built cars in the class because theyre suffering from the raccoon symptom, oohh shiney is my one pet peeve. Edited December 31, 2012 by azers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyrichard Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 well personally i think everybody should build like they want and how they have the most fun building a model.. i think aftermarket stuff is so populair because peopel always want to keep growing in thier passion / hobby and therefore after a while search for that bit extra.. and i dont believe that you would not be able to beat a person who draped their model in p/e and aftermarket stuff with a good build model without that stuff. so imo you def. could beat others who did use aftermarket stuff with a build model without aftermarket stuff , as long as you produce quality .. then there is the matter that i personally never entered a contest and dont have plans to do so , i build because its my passion , i share it on forums and if people like it thats cool if they dont also cool .. sometimes people tend to overthink stuff about hobby's , it will always be in the eye of teh beholder and everybody has certain ways and things they like , respect eitch other and .. and if its just a case that you want to win a contest and think you cant without pe / aftermarket stuff , save up buy stuff and test it out (not ment badly) if i speak for myself > you wont see me buy expensive p/e stuff or aftermarket stuff , i always try to add stuff bu scratching and thinking out of the box myself .. thats the fun that i have in this hobby .. you won't see me building a kit stock like it should be build , but i do respect people who do and who research stuff and want to get as close to the original as possible . not my cup of tea but i do like to watch those guys .. well could go on like this for .... but thats my 2 cnt's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raildogg Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 This issue came to a head once when I was the layout scenery manager at my local model railroading club. It was never resolved!. It's like trying to come to an agreement in Congress, too many strong and unrelenting opinions. Why would a car, or truck, be any less well done if done with style. Many are out of the box and are sweet ,while many have all the bells and whistles. I look at those, super detailed 1/20th scale race cars and think, wow that's complicated, not my style, but then I think, if done well it comes off sweet. So in closing, remember, it's only a hobby, and we, rise to our own levels of satisfaction and willingness to astound ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cranky Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Here's Doctor Cranky's formula for enjoying the hobby into a ripe old age: 1) build for yourself to derive pleasure from your skills and imagination 2) always share and be generous 3) if you show your models in competition do so with an open mind and an open heart 4) be happy to build at your current skill level, and be patient . . . everyone learns at their own pace 5) if you want to get better, practice, practice, practice--READ and INFORM yourself, learn from others 6) be willing to accept criticism. CRITICISM is a fact of life. Always focus and listen to constructive criticism. 7) help others with what you've learned, and learn from your mistakes. 8) Don't be too hard upon yourself, but be your toughest critic 9) Remember that building models is about the journey, not the final results 10) Keep your first few models so that you can compare them to later models and see how far you've come in the hobby. I'm sure I can come up with a longer list, but these are the ones that have kept me going all these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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